Zodronon

To the few of you who read my original SHS posting last week, I?m a 46-year old American with ADD/dyslexia and just enough experience (35+ years of video/computer gaming, 10 years in retail game QA and Technical Support, and a current tech-dependent job) to know just how much I don?t know about modding. My cry for help centered around how anxious I was to try BG again after dumping it (and gaming) 18 months ago for a long hiatus. Having never finished the first game (or taken the wrapper off the second), I was anxious to both grow and enhance the experience, and yet remain as true as possible to the originals without exploits or major changes of the original work; I only desired new and bonus material.

I (perhaps wrong-headedly) asked too much of this community after days of just reading forums and tearing my hair out with frustration and anxiety. Now, a full week of non-stop research later, I have, with the help of some great feedback from you folks, winnowed down the hundreds of available mods to a potential install configuration.

My first step was to reverse everything - to decide which NPCs I most wanted to try, and to eliminate everything minor that didn?t apply to them. To that end, I extracted this remarkable resource, conformed it into a tab-delimited text file, and imported it into a FileMaker Pro database (thanks to my ADD, I live in FMP?I write databases for everything! "Filtering?sorting?context-sensitive text coloration?AHHHHHH!!!" ). Then I (agonizingly) reduced 200 NPCs to the 20 or so I was considering for parties between the two games. The NPC?s (not native to BG1, BG2, or the other quest mods I?m installing) whom I wish to at least taste-test are:

____ w Kitanya v.6.4.1 __________________________________________________ √ Saerileth v.13
____ w Sarah v.3.1 ______________________________________________________ √! Gavin (BG1 & BG2 versions) v.8 (downloaded) vs. v.20 (???)


____ √ - Verified compatible on SHS ________w - Verified WeiDU compatible on mod?s site ________! - Not fully compatible, or question remains ________? - Cannot verify

____ (I?M COMMITTED TO USING THIS)___________(I?D LIKE TO USE THIS IF POSSIBLE)___________(OPTIONAL - I DON?T FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT USING THIS)


I did want to try Solestia, but her link is broken and I?ve found no other source for her. Those I could find I?ve already downloaded (with the exception of Gavin, who appears to have a few wildly-conflicting versions I must first resolve and correct before committing).

In addition, I?m augmenting the above with:

____ √ BG1 NPC Project v.18 ___________________________________________ ! Imoen Romance (v.1.20+, with caveats)
____ ? Banter Pack (from Pocket Plane) v.12 ________________________ ? Imoen SoA/ToB Soundtracks
____ ? IEP Extended Banter Pack v.4 __________________________________ ? Yoshimo Friendship
____ ? Crossmod Banter Pack v.13 ____________________________________ ? Keeping Yoshimo ____
____ ? Imoen Friendship v.1 __(?)


These I?ve also downloaded. I?ve also downloaded a few various and sundry item packs and the like, but they were ?impulse buys,? so I don?t have the list handy. I shall have to ask about them in a separate post.

Now, thanks to a remarkable outline and encapsulation by Lollorian (with great additional advice and tips from Jarno ), I was recommended to the following must-have quest modules, which all appear to be compatible, assuming I install the correct versions:

____ √ The Secret of BoneHill _________________________________________ √ The Darkest Day
____ √ Dark Side of the Sword Coast ________________________________ √ Check the Bodies
____ √ Northern Tales of the Sword Coast__________________________ √ Region of Terror
____ √ Drizzt?s Saga ____________________________________________________ √ Tortured Souls
____ √ Never Ending Journey _________________________________________ √ Shadows Over Soubar

These include a few additional NPCs I have an interest in. Here, I have two questions for the community, before we move forward:

1) I was warned that only NEJ v.4.2 is BGT compatible. The download site (Blackwyrm Lair?) also said as much. But the readme there also suggested that a latter version (v.6.8 "Second Edition") was required and compatible, and came with a special resource (a mod-version-dedicated .TP2 file). Does anyone know the resolution to this? I?m not a modder, so maybe you can parse the readme statement better than I.

2) TDD is said to max out class kit content for at least one class. I am told this is a hardcode limit and jeopardizes any other install that adds kits. How do I manage that? No additional mods with kits? No kit elements from mods that have per-element optional installation? Deselect kits I don't intend to use when installing the TDD mod?

Lollorian also strongly recommended the Infinity Animations, and I?ve no reason to gainsay him. Her. And, of course, s/he rightly guided me to the basic building blocks and mortar to holding it all together:

____Baldur?s Gate Trilogy (already installed - may have to start over if I got the order of operations wrong)
____The Big Picture
____The BP/BGT Worldmap

My own research has turned up a handful of quest packs and add-ons that intrigue me enough to consider this time around (the dozens of others will have to wait; I can only do so much at once, and I already fear for my CPU):

____ √ BG Mini-Quests and Encounters
____ √ The Grey Clan Episode I: In Candlelight
____ √ The Lure of the Sirine's Call
____ √ The Vault
____ √ Ding0?s Quest Pack

The above also are all from Pocket Plane, I think.

In addition, I?m also considering the following Mods & Tweaks:

From Gibberlings 3:

____ ? Widescreen Mod Updates to v3.00
____ √ BG2 Tweak Pack v9
____ ? Alternatives v9
____ ? Nythrun's Level 1 NPCs Version 1.5
____ √ Version 16 of Sword Coast Stratagems (for BG1)
____ √ Version 15 of Sword Coast Stratagems II (for BG2)

Again, from Pocket Plane:

____ √? Unfinished Business BG1 & BG2
____ √ House of Sim (Ding0 Tweak Pack)

And from RPG Dungeon http://www.rpgdungeon.net/

____ ? Improved Asylum V0.95

Whew! Now?my major questions at this time (as I?m confident this journey is far from over?):

* Does anyone have any offhand knowledge of the above sources or mods as to reputability, stability, currency, support, or any other red flag? In other words, should I be avoiding any of the above outright? (I know you?re all respectful professionals, and value the whole modding community?I?m not looking for gossip or anything; just solid code )

* Is the overall configuration above still far too ambitious? If I took everything above, is that normal? A little much? Way over the top? How much would you recommend my paring it down?

* Do any of the components above scream to you (in your own experience) as being cross-incompatible? Are there any items above that should never live together?or, perhaps even don?t need to (like the G3 Widescreen mod?is that covered in a larger package above)? Are there lesser conflicts that I can mitigate easily (with, say, install order, or by not installing certain optional components)?

* Did I miss anything in the documentation to what?s above that violates my basic tenants - nothing OP or exploitive (unless wholly optional), nothing that destroys too much the flavor or content of the original, nothing too far from the reservation for someone who hasn?t yet experienced part of BG1 or any of BG2, etc.?

I would not again seek to burden anyone with work that?s (theoretically) doable by me through research?but the above represents three days of work, including an entire evening just to cross-check info, verify versions and compatibility through sources I do have access to, and to compose this post. So if you guys can catch some major gaffe at a glance, you?d be doing me a huge favor. But I wouldn?t expect anyone to work any harder than that.

I?m out of town next week on a job, but when I return, if you guys have mulled this over and given me some more things to think about, I?ll likely be locking down my build and then moving on to the next topic?how to jam all of this into one kludge of a game that?s actually playable.

Thanks again for all of your help?and Happy New Year!_____________:_:_____:__:___:_:

Greetings! I?m a non-modding gamer, ADD & dyslexic, and terrified even of navigating a forum, to be honest. So if I commit some great faux pas (like posting in the wrong area, or asking something that really is buried somewhere in these archives), I apologize profusely in advance.

I just bought both The Original Saga and BG2 Complete from GoG.com. To be frank, these are replacements for my original copies which I threw out with my $2500 game library when I ?gave up gaming? 18 months ago. At that point, I?d not finished BG/TotSC, and never took the wrapper off of SoA or ToB. I just couldn?t find the hours in the day to do all the gaming on my plate. So I?m both anxious and rusty at the moment.

Wanting the best and most supported experience, I?ve added Baldur's Gate Trilogy to the mix. That put me in the position to decide what I wanted to add next. And I?m here to tell you as a normal user that the options - and variables - are driving me into a mental hospital. I?m chomping at the bit to experience all of the amazing work that so many of you have done, and I?m envious that you are able to put more effort in making mods (in probably less time) than I spent trying to play the game originally (playing on and off for about 2 years). The problem is that I can?t get anywhere near booting the game...and not for technical reasons.

I?ve been reading forums now for three solid days (which I was only able to steal because of the holiday weekend). And I?m now more paranoid about proceeding than ever! Let me see if I can show you the difficulties from my perspective; perhaps I?ll prove the perfect fool to beta your foolproof forums.

First, the issue of TuTu vs. BGT. It never really was clear who the winner was, though my gut tells me that, with the revisions of recent years, BGT came from behind and edged out TuTu in the end. The major difference being the style of bridge between BG1 and BG2, I chose BGT. It also (it?s at least implied) is very compatible with additional mods. Good start, but it took me a solid day to figure that out?and I embraced the decision with little confidence.

Now I?m faced with a host of add-ons. They all look amazing! But there are definitely some camps to divide things into:

Bug Fixes - to the existing engine, both core games and both expansions, and to the individual mods themselves.

Improvements and Preferences (?Tweaks?) - unnecessary but convenient, and generally desired updates to the interface (I?ll use the streamlined Journal as an example of this idea, though I understand this is actually part of a larger package).

Cheats and Hacks - overly-strong words for what's here compared to what?s out there in the aftermarket, but, relative to the close-to-the-vest mods that are the majority here, these tend to give special or unintended power to players, such as extra equipment or unintended spells.

Environmental Additions - from music to NPC banter, these add flavor and color without grossly affecting the game.

Elemental Augmentations - from balanced spells and items to additional NPCs to small extra side-quests, these are small, inoffensive additions that fall somewhere between simple environment supplements and?

Moderate Supplemental Adventures - these being full side-quests or small additional areas within existing modules, just to add a touch more fun and scope.

Major Add-On Campaign Modules - these are the full-blown quest chains and areas which, had they been official releases, would have been separately-boxed add-ons of major scope.

Now, all of these amazing warez, in all of their various states of development, are seductive and exciting. I admire all of these achievements, and (adjusted for my personal playstyle) would love to try most of them! But, aside from not having the time, I don?t know how. And three days of reading, though it?s clarified the variables for me, has not presented a solution. My problems are:

* In what order are things installed? I?ve already installed BGT - it?s the one conclusion I had some confidence in at the time - and now I fear I was precipitous, and must rip the whole gamut out and run the hour-plus sequence again with refinements. Specifically, I?m confident that BG1 and BG2 go in first. But then what order of the following: host linker/expander (BGT or TuTu); major ?Big? mod package (Big World, etc.); major individual mods (Secret of BoneHill, etc.); environment packages (romances, etc.); minor tweaks, fixes, and hacks (everything else)?

* What do the ?Mega-Mods? actually contain? It is far from clear in most cases. The implication, for example, is that Big World ?contains? several of the individual major expansions, these cleaned up for cross-compatibility?but I can?t find the list of which mods are in the package. That makes me think that I?m wrong, and that only the fixes to the compatibilities are native to Big World, and the individual mods must still be separately installed. And if I?m wrong, what would be the result of laying, say, an individual ?Darkest Day? install on top of a Mega-Mod with ?Darkest Day? already in it?

* Even if I work out all that is in the Mega-Mod, there are other things I?d like to install. What?s their compatibility with BGT? With the Mega? With each other? How do I know when one is redundant to another (two identical AI scripts, for example), and how they?ll behave together? What happens when they contradict one another (BG1 scribe XP vs. BG2 scribe XP, for example)? And what about old-school incompatibilities?vanilla crashes for as-to-yet unknown reasons? Some mods have rigorous version histories; others, no hint of any problems. Does anyone keep comprehensive track?

* And even in a vacuum, it?s not always clear what state the individual mod is in. Is it alpha? Beta? Release, but with notes? Rock-solid? Retired/deprecated? Absorbed by a package mod? Supplanted by a superior alternative?

* Are the elements in the mods optional? In a major campaign mod, obviously not. But in a Tweaks Pack, it would be nice to know if I can take the nice music and NPC banter (or whatever) and dump the Tactics-style AI cheats separately, without having to turn off or delete the entire pack. This may already be a standard?but it?s not apparent from most of the forum traffic and documentation I?ve found so far. And, without a dependable troubleshoot/uninstall guide, there's way too much time at stake to expermiment by installing.

* And, finally, what do I do if things go wrong? I?ve yet to find a decent procedural that walks a non-tech user through installing, augmenting, testing, and removing mods and add-ons without compromising either the entire install suite of mods, host framework, and original software. I've seen parts of this formula, but always fragmented and insulated from the whole, and scattered about. Furthermore, I?ve seen no evidence that such tweaking is plausible without majorly screwing up any saved games created from that config.

You will understand my reluctance to blunder through or ?trial and error? this process if you know that I am a) not very successful at tech (despite 10 years - and these not recent - in retail game software support); b) far too old and slow to pick this up effectively, and; c) bereft of the time to both play the game and re-invent the wheel. Looking at 400-500 hours of actual gaming, here, the thought that one of these chains might fail 75-90% of the way through over an add-on bug, and drive me back to square one, maybe multiple times, is enough to swear me off gaming again before I even try! Consider that 4-5 such losses is the equivalent of working a normal job! Who has that kind of time?

Now, I would certainly love and appreciate answers to the above here, in this thread, if someone is up to it. As a sidebar, I?d also be grateful if anyone has, could guide me to, or is willing to attempt, a reasonably comprehensive list of mods and add-ons that fall under the following criteria:

1) Utterly cross-compatible, with BGT and each other (within reason?a dropped dialogue or instance of weird AI behavior in one fight is not a deal-breaker). I don?t want to beta, troubleshoot, reinstall the game, or loose 200 hours of play. Regrettably, I don?t have the time or the skill.

2) All reasonable major campaign additions. New areas, quests, and story arcs, as many as will fit that will not screw up the major game or one another.

3) Suggestions as to environmental enhancements that are pleasant but not burdensome. NPC banter? Sure, if it doesn?t fully replace the original voices I love. Romances? Maybe. Fields of dead Drzzzts that drop Vorpal Blades? No thanks.

4) Any packs that might enhance the game, such as NPCs that can join my party (I tend toward Good alignments) or through secondary quest interaction or environmental harassment (the others, obviously, if they do this).

5) Moderate or reasonable tweaks and fixes. So long as it either fixes a true bug, honors some original intent (from Bioware over the first game, let?s say, or a PnP rule that was dropped), or is a sensible improvement (the BG2 interface in BG1), I?m all for it. Anything that?s too risky or unbalances the game, I swear off.

6) Nothing exploitive or overly convenient. Don?t love the idea of the chest cracking XP that drives you up a level each time you open a box in Beregost. I either need to be able to turn that stuff off, or not use the mod.

7) The primary rule is that I?d like enhancements and balanced additions that do not ruin the spirit and flavor of the original game, or cheat its intent. I favor original music and voices (even with incongruous additions) over too much replacement. I respect the immense work you?ve all put in, but that?s the place I personally draw a very subjective line.

That said, I totally get if someone declines to spend their own valuable time customizing a list for me. It would be a tall order for an individual?but I think it would be a remarkable resource for this site. I'd be more than happy to find that information for myself...if it were just a little more compreshensively presented!

In fact, at the risk of being ?that guy? - the non-tech noob who probably missed several key pages that he didn?t find just searching and trolling; the guy who, barely able to use the software in question, arrogates suggestions - but I?ve been so thrilled by the site, and so informed by the many great contributors that I?m crushed that I?ve come up a few feet from the exit only to find the tunnel blocked.

As a novice and an end-user, perhaps I can point out a few places where things might be raised to the highest possible standard of ease, consistency, and comprehension. For example:

User Forum - Most of the forums I see here are dedicated to, or from the perspective of, qualified modders. That?s great and all?but most of us that use your fine craftwork are not modders. Heck, most of us are lucky to be able to install a commercial piece of software! Why not a section dedicated the customer: the end user?

User Tools - What would this forum contain? Certainly several stickies on a few key subjects:

A Comprehensive Installation Guide - Not just for an individual mod or tweak, but a guide that maps the entire organic process and interrelationships of the software, as simplified as you can get it. For example:

?The main games are installed to directories which, for ease of use and security, should be in the root of the C: drive and contain no spaces. After this, any major ?Big World? mod is installed, then BGT or TuTu, then major campaign mods, NPC and dialogue packs, then tweaks, fixes, and hacks, in that order, unless?? ...or whatever.

This would be a remarkable resource for those of us who don?t intuitively understand all the ins and outs of the interactions of these bits of code.

A Comprehensive Mod List - I realize there are many lists already, including a really great one concerning WeiDU compatibility?but, again, the information there seems more to serve modders or the savvy than the novice. This page should either contain, or direct the reader to, encapsulations of the mod and all of its critical specs. In the latter case, perhaps there should be links to sub-threads or Wiki entries that have specs on each mod. I recognize that the download pages presently have a great wealth of specifications and a good standardization of format, but this could be further extended (I still have no idea what this Jonathan NPC is or does - only that he exists - and this despite hopping around to several links and other pages; why is it not on the main page for his mod?).

Individual Mod Data Sheets - As stated above, these should be embedded somewhere sensible and linked to the master list. Whether these are separate entities, or simply more robust versions of the download pages, is up to you. But they should contain, in a standardized format (with redundancies where necessary):

* The platform the mod is designed for (Mac, PC, OS version, etc.), which is not always intuitive.
* The host program the file is compatible with (BGT, TuTu, both, etc.), and here you should err in favor of diplomacy and centralization. Though most of this and other sites are good about linking to outside resources, there is no guarantee that those resources are updated, don?t redirect to more obscure resources in-turn, or even work at all. We get that you?re not modding for TuTu directly?but if you cover their backs, I?m sure their community will cover yours. Anyway, if they can talk about BGT compatability of a TuTu mod there...you should at least make the same info clear here, where you're recommending or linking to it.
* The current version (which someone would have to stay on top of), and its status (alpha, beta, new release, updated, finished, not supported, obsolete, etc.).
* Known issues and bugs.
* Cross-compatibility - good and bad - with other modules and resources. Perhaps even a master compatability cross-sheet, chart, or spreadsheet might be in order (I know it would have helped me immensely ).
* Suggested order of operation in the overall install chain (i.e., before or after BGT, before or after tweaks and bug fix packs, etc.).
* Any other relevant specs (such as NPC location, custom voice script or AI script description, alignment, class, race, etc.).

I recognize that much of this information can be found presently, depending on where you look. But even if the above proves redundant to information stored elsewhere, having it in a clearinghouse would be an immense help.

A Standardized Description System - This should use standardized terms of the community's convention or discretion, and should make clear what category the mod fits into, its size and scope, and what ?style? it is. So? ?party NPC AI mod for just Paladins that is greatly overpowered and gives you a tremendous advantage,? or whatever. This would work best as header information for each reference, link, list, and data sheet for the mod on this site...short as possible, clear, and right after the mod's name.

OK, I guess I am that guy. But I mean well. I?ve now typed to 4 in the morning when I?m supposed to be working and sleeping, just to take a shot at seeing if anyone here can help me navigate the difficulties which gets me to the hours of choices, installs, and troubleshooting that gets me, in turn (and probably days from now) to my first new game of BG in years. I hope that I have not offended, and, if I have, mea culpa...it was not my intent.

Without that help, I fear I?ve just blown $20 bucks and a weekend only to pull the game for good this time. I hope there aren?t a lot of players like me, but judging from the help forums I?ve been through, I know there?s a lot of frustration out there. You guys have done so much to quell and relieve that already - above and beyond the thousands of work-hours you?ve but into these remarkable modules.

I want to make sure they find the entire audience they deserve.

Thanks for your time and consideration.