Jurang

Especially the last one was excellent.....

Nope, you're not the only one. I pretty much saw her the same way. Otherwise, I second everything LSWSjr said.

[quote name='Kish' date='May 8 2003, 04:44 PM']
[quote]
There is.  The whole "is Imoen the PC's sister" argument has been gone over again and again, and I don't think anyone's ever changed position on it even slightly, but even that is not, in my eyes, the most important issue.  As I said above, what the PC feels is up to the player--if the PC wants to try to have a romance with his/her sibling, that's between the player and the character.  (Just don't ask me to read game logs or fanfiction.)

What does matter to this mod, though, is that Imoen would never go for such a relationship.  Whether the PC actually is her sibling or not, she certainly thinks of him (or her) as one, and it certainly matters to her.  Mischaracterizing Imoen=Bad.  It would wreck the mod if, in the mod, Imoen's speech patterns were suddenly replaced with Aerie's, or if she lost her sense of loyalty for no reason, or if she otherwise did something she would never do.[/quote] [/quote]
However, I don't get the message that she is supposed to be your sister. It may be because of faulty german translating again, but in the german version she never even says a word about it in SoA. And in ToB no one even addresses her so. Therefore, there is no direct proof that she's thinking that way, since she doesn't say so.

The other bhaalspawn are not introduced as sisters or brothers, either. Not even in the intro or outro. I believe therefore the issue will stay unclear.

I agree that mischaracterizing Imoen will be bad for the mod.

[qoute]imoen would never go for it[/quote] I believe it should be up to how the PC reacts, treats her and so on. If you'd have asked me if it would be possible for Jaheira to romance the PC, I would have thought that idea very unrealistic, not to say impossible. Therefore, I believe it should be up to the player's reactions.



But, since I am not making the mod, and I do not have any power over the creators, I will agree with whatever they choose to do.

I think the real problem for having a romance is to determine how far Imoen is the players sister.


Therefore, my argument:

1.Bhaal obviously had many children. The scene comes to mind when the PC meets Sarevok, Yaga Shura or anyone else of the bhaalspawn. Now, does either Imoen nor the PC really cries or feel sad when they kill their so-called brothers and sisters?

No, they don't. They just get along with it, and continue their quests. Thereofre, I can't understand the reactions of the people. (Sorry if I offend anybody here, I am open to argument). If the bhaalspawn were true siblings, why wouldn't the PC cry or complain about "always killing his brothers/sisters?

Now, to the matter of race, also called genetics. Yaga Shura, Imoen, Melissan, Balthazar and so on had all one predominatn human form. I will focus on Yaga Shura right now. Obviously, the genetics of hsi race was predominant - he doesn't look like a god. The only relevance to Bhaal was that he had soem extraordinary powers. I therefore think, that genetics isn't an issue at all - the extraordinary powers come, IMO from the Bhaals protion in him.

And that's where it gets sticky. If there is no physical relation to anyone, what makes them brothers and sisters? The Bhaal essence? If so, the goody-goody player character should have had at least some qualms about killing fellow Bhaalspawn - which he didn't show. or there should have been at least a conversation liek "Do you think it is good to kill your brothers?) Therefore, since there is no genetic relation, why are all those considered Bhaalspawn? I believe it is mainly because of the Bhaal essence, the powers and their actions. You can't identifiy a Bhaalspawn by his/her/it looks, as shown in the intro of ToB, where they show people being arrested because others think they may be Bhaalspawn.


The definition of Bhaalspawn therefore may be just an ideological one. Does a part of Bhaal really make people related? The reactions of the PC or Imoen to the killing of Yaga Shura or else do not imply that.

Soemone said that the definition fo half-brother/sister mean that the people in question share a common parent. But do they really? Not in the genetic way, and since Bhaal didn't care much about his children and their upbringings, not in the ideological way either.


So, what makes Imoen and the PC related? Their common past. Yet, does a common past make people brother and sister? Is my neighbors daughter, who I now since my childhood, my sister? No, she isn't, and I would never think of her that way.

There is nothing that stands in the way of a romance, IMHO, and I would be more than happy to have an option to play it out.

I won't guarantee that I will play it out, but I argue for an option.



PS: I hope I haven't offended anyone. If I do, then I ask for forgiveness. If that is not enogh for you, just state it here and I will make a formal apology.


Jurang
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"You know what the difference between demonms and kobolds is?
Demons are more generous."

Just to be sure, I played the german version again  - this time with a female character. She said the smae line again - so IO wouldn't really count it as a proof for anything - because

a) it is obviously just in the german version
b)the translation is really bad form the Us original version to the german one, so it may just bea mistake


Therefore, I wouldn't count it as a proof at all. I believe we shoudl gowith the us version as the standard one.