89 replies to this topic

[Stone Wolf]

I don't know what Bane's class was, though his avatar is (Cleric 36/Fighter 35/Mage 30/Thief 10).

[Andyr]

As has been shown many times, gods can get resurrected . IIRC a growing cult of Moander-worshippers brought him back to life via a complex ritual and an enormous compost heap. Also, after Myrkul's death, no-one claimed decay, corruption and parasites, so they were there for the resurrected Moander's taking (he came back right after the ToT).

It's normally the person/deity who kills a god who gets their portfolio, so yes, that's why I think it was Myrkul who killed Moander.

Ah, right. But if Myrkul killed Moander then Moander was resurrected, did Moander and Myrkul share portfolios for a time?

[NiGHTMARE]

But as I asked previously, how did Myrkul obtain most of Moander's portfolio?

[Arachnos]

Dont know about the Myrkul/Moander thing.

Perhaps another related question would be 'what sort of interesting plans does Lolth have now that's shes picked up all the bits of Moander that were left over after Finder took the crappy parts'??

[Archmage Silver]

Heh, I bet she's up to something verry evil, yes sir.

[Stone Wolf]

But as I asked previously, how did Myrkul obtain most of Moander's portfolio?

Maybe nobody else wanted it.

[Archmage Silver]

Are you kidding ST? Surely at least Ghanaudor would have taken it.

[Stone Wolf]

Heh, I wasn't really being serious. I'm sure some Power would pick up the portfolio just for the extra worshippers.

[Archmage Silver]

Hehee, its just so that the Powers are always hungry for more, they can't just be happy with what they have, they're very much like mortals in that aspect.

Edited by Archmage Silver, 06 October 2004 - 12:12 PM.

[Stone Wolf]

Powers are in many ways the same as mortals, they just play on a bigger field.

[Archmage Silver]

To get back in to the topic, who are three major lords of the Nine Hells and how do theu keep their minions from usurping?

[Stone Wolf]

There are nine lords (one for each level). As for preventing revolts...well, the nine who rule now aren't the same nine that started out, so they can't always prevent revolts.

[Archmage Silver]

Isn't it so that the power of the denizens of the Nine Hells is defined by belief ie. a large group believes that a certain lord has more power than he really has, but the believers actually increase his power to match their beliefs? If so, then could a prime dweller ie. some cleric or mage use the very same thing to increase their power if they were powerful enough to survive in the Nine Hells?

[Feanor]

Does anyone know how powerful are the Archdevils in comparison with the gods of Toril ?

[oralpain]

None of the Arch devils can even come close to rivaling a god, except for Asmodeus (but no one knows this).

Caught without their servants/bodyguards and not in their personal domains, a pair of pit fiends could take down nearly any one of them. They are powerful, ancient, ruthless, and extreemly intelegent, but their raw personal power does not radically exceed that of other very powerful Baatezu. Still messing with them is a seriously bad idea, thy all command VAST resources and none of them come any where near being foolish or stupid.

They keep there minions from usurping through a combination of raw power, misdirection, and carefully playing them against each other. Most of the loard are some of the oldest existing Baatezu and they have played the games of politics and strategems of the devils so long that they are unmatched. Also, Baatezu are supremely orderly and lawful, so their actions are some what predictable to those that truely understand the Baatezu mind, as the lords do. Still they must be cautious, assassination is quite common in the ranks and not even the lords are immune.

Yes, if enough people/devils whatever believed in a lord enough they could become gods. Baatezu however usually never worship anyone or anthing and the higher ranking ones are expressly forbidden to. Also, the lords, though they don't know it, get all of their lordly powers from Asmodeus and if he saw one of them gaining enough power to risk his absolute control, he would remove lordship from that devil and annhiliate him, her, or it. Asmodeus is the puppet master and the entire Baatezu race, nobles and lords included, are his puppets. This is not at all widely known however.

I'll post the stats of a few Lords/Archdevils as they are listed in the "Guide to Hell" wich is the most recent AD&D 2nd edition sourcebook on the topic.

Archduke Dispater of Dis
Lord of the Second

  Dispater is perhaps the most conservative of the Lords of Hell. He has made a career by hedging his bets and never taking big risks. He almost never leaves the Iron Tower, inside which he is invulerable. Only the call of Asmodeus can bring him out, and whenever he is ordered to leave his citadel, he returns as soon as possible.
  Dispater prides himself on his ability to control his emotions. Even when anger is burning inside him, he remains outwardly calm and in control. This self-control, and his exellent manners, has given him a gentlemanly veneer that aids him politicking. Beneath his velvet glove, however, is a fist of iron, as many members of his court have found out to their cost. Dispater is one of the oldest devils, and he would not have kept his lord ship this long if he were a weakling.
  In the politics of Hell, Dispater is an ally of Mephistopheles, at least in name. Dispater supports the Lord of the Eighth because Mephistopheles is a true member of the baatezu race. Baalzebul, their enemy, is a fallen archon and as such deserving of no respect. Only a devil as old as Dispater would rember or care about such details, but his memory is long and he does not forget. Since the Reckoning, however, Dispater has been very careful about his political stances. He knows he was lucky to retain his lordship, and he would require considerable persuasion to defy Asmodeus again.

Dispater: AC -2; MV 15; HD 15; hp 144; THAC0 2; #AT 2; Dmg 4d6+10; SA see below; SD +2 or better weapon to hit; MR 80%; SZ M (7' tall); ML fearless (20); Int supra-genius (19); AL LE; XP 26,000.
  Dispater's badge of office is a 3-foot-long rod made of iron and lead, said to have been enchanted at the same time as the Iron Tower. The rod is a weapon of +3 enchantment that inflicts 4d6 damage per strike. Additionally, it acts as a rod of rulership.
  Once per round Dispater can use the following spell-like powers, in addition to those normally available to baatezu: beguile (as per a rod of beguiling), detect invisibility, geas, light, polymorph self, produce flame, pyrotechnics, raise dead, read languages, read magic, restoration, and wall of fire. Once per day Dispater can create a symbol of pain, utter an unholly word, and fulfill a wish. Three times per day he can summon 1d3 erinyes or 1 pit fiend with a 90% chance of success.
  Dispater's greatest defense is the Iron Tower. While within it's walls, he is invulnerable. Weapons pass right through him, and spells fizzle when they touch him. He is only vulnerable to attack while away from the tower, so he only travels when necessary.

If you need his ability scores they must be extrapolated, as 2E does not normally list ability scores (other than Intelegence for most monsters).

These are the scores I would rule he has.

STR 19 (offical, his rod is a +3 weapon and he does +10 damage with it so his strength damage bonus must be +7, this corresponds to a 19 strength)
DEX 15 (semi-offical, extrapolated from his movement rate according to the "combat and tactics" and "high level campaigns))
CON 18 (educated guess based on his hitpoint to hit die ratio)
INT 19 (offical, listed in description)
WIS 18 (educated guess, when in doubt it useually damn near INT, this also fits his description)
CHA 20 (educated guess based on his morale score and description)

I'll post another later if you like. I'm a sloooow typer and had to type this out manually.

Edited by oralpain, 09 November 2004 - 07:39 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Yep, if you could post an another lord's stats, it would be great.

[oralpain]

Any preference on wich lord's/lady's stats I should post next?

[Feanor]

Mephystopheles and Baalzebul, please.