89 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

But there is another problem. If a power is so invincible, how Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul hoped to defeat Jergal ? Yes, Jergal gave up his portofolios willingly, but those three could not have foreseen that.

[Archmage Silver]

Even the Great can fall. And I'm not changing my mind. Raistlin could have succeeded in destroying a goddess and so 'tis proved; gods can be destroyed if the right procedure, tool, ritual etc. etc. is used.

[NiGHTMARE]

But there is another problem. If a power is so invincible, how Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul hoped to defeat Jergal ? Yes, Jergal gave up his portofolios willingly, but those three could not have foreseen that.

They were already deities when they confronted Jergal.

[Archmage Silver]

Hmm, what were their portfolios then?

[NiGHTMARE]

I'll compare Jergal's original portfolio with Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul's this evening and let you know.

Though thinking about it, back then a god's power wasn't determind by his number of worshippers, so they may not neccessarily have had portfolios as such, just divine essence.

[Archmage Silver]

Interesting, but before I comment further, I wait for your reply.

[hlidskialf]

As innane as this thread has become, I gotta post. The truth of the matter is that it's up to the DM or the author to determine what can or can't be done. "Raistlin almost succeeded" was a plot written by a pair of authors in a game world setting. The whole campaign background of any setting is just that - a background. Your DM will have the final yea or nay on the matter. End of debate.


BTW, am I the only one that's not blinded into realizing that every single novel ever written about a campaign setting was just that - a STORY? The authors rarely (With a token nod to the books by Ed Greenwood and Gary Gygax.) were more than contracted writers. Those few who had actually played the game did so with a custom campaign same as the rest of us did. People who hold up a novel as "Proof of law" for these rule-debates should give their head a shake. Even Ed and Gary fudged the rules, they had themselves laid down, in their own books.

[Archmage Silver]

That is the way if you play by the rules, hlid. I understand this, but I like to use my imagination and as this is not true, we may not know what could be possible and what not. Grande Finale, I like to think things as I do and everyone is free to do so themselves and object to my thinking, if they feel I'm just being plainly stupid. . No need to anyone get angry because of my musings, like a couple of guests already have.

[hlidskialf]

That is the way if you play by the rules, hlid. I understand this, but I like to use my imagination and as this is not true, we may not know what could be possible and what not. Grande Finale, I like to think things as I do and everyone is free to do so themselves and object to my thinking, if they feel I'm just being plainly stupid. . No need to anyone get angry because of my musings, like a couple of guests already have.

Actually that was very much my point! They can play how they want, and so can you. It's like the endless coke/pepsi cola wars debate. There's no winner, just drink the one you like.

[Archmage Silver]

Coke is better! ... Just kidding lol !

[NiGHTMARE]

Bane: Strife, hatred, tyranny.

Bhaal: Death, especially violent or ritual death.

Myrkul: The dead, wasting, decay, corruption, parasites, old age, exhaustion, dusk, autumn.

Jergal (at the time of Netheril): Death, the dead, order in death, funerals and tombs, undeath, the undead, wasting, old age, exhaustion, tyranny, dusk.

Jergal (after meeting with the Dead Three): Fatalism, order in death, proper burial, guardian of tombs, protector of the names of the dead


So the Dead Three obtained death, the dead, wasting, old age, exhaustion, tyranny and dusk from Jergal. That leaves strife, hatred, decay, corruption, parasites, and autumn.

It's said they ascended to deityhood by killing one of the Lost Gods, and Moander (considered to be one of the Lost Gods) had rotting death, decay, corruption and parasites in his portfolio. Seems a perfect fit .

The lost god being Moander fits in doubly well considering Moander's worshippers were virtually all wiped out by the elves and his single remaining avatar was trapped below a ruined temple in the Realms. Maybe he was just weak and helpless enough to be slain by a trio of powerful mortals...

The logcial conclusion is that it was Myrkul who struck the killing blow, and he granted some of his new divine essence to his two companions (perhaps they became his Chosen?)

Of course, this still leaves strife, hatred, and autumn to explain away. Autumn was originally part of Selune's portfolio, so how Myrkul gained it from her I haven't a clue. I also can't explain where Bane gained strife or hatred from; perhaps they're "new" domains that Bane was the first god ever to possess - after all, when the same god was reborn in 1372, he gained the brand new domain of fear.

[Andyr]

Didn't Finder kill Moander recently, though?

Also, why do you think that Myrkul killed Moander as opposed to the others? The portfolio overlap?

[NiGHTMARE]

As has been shown many times, gods can get resurrected . IIRC a growing cult of Moander-worshippers brought him back to life via a complex ritual and an enormous compost heap. Also, after Myrkul's death, no-one claimed decay, corruption and parasites, so they were there for the resurrected Moander's taking (he came back right after the ToT).

It's normally the person/deity who kills a god who gets their portfolio, so yes, that's why I think it was Myrkul who killed Moander.

[Stone Wolf]

Moander was also still quite weak when he was killed the second time. Very few worshippers can do that to you. That would explain why his true form was so vulnerable to attack.

[Archmage Silver]

The lost god being Moander fits in doubly well considering Moander's worshippers were virtually all wiped out by the elves and his single remaining avatar was trapped below a ruined temple in the Realms. Maybe he was just weak and helpless enough to be slain by a trio of powerful mortals...

I remember reading about the temple and the three's adventure there... if only I could remember where. It was either a in-game book or a something in the net.

[NiGHTMARE]

Who's Borem? Can't say I've ever heard of him/her/it .

But in that case, how did Myrkul get his hands on 3/4 of Moander's portfolio?