168 replies to this topic

[Thrain]

if i'm handed scripts and suchlike i shall endevour to provide some voicing

sheepwithaleek@hotmail.com

[BobTokyo]

Also, if you kick him out of the party (why would anyone ever want to do that?), I am assuming he will go back to his shop?

Nice dialog. I'll shift things a bit, but it's worth doing.

If you kick him out he'll go back to the shop.

[SConrad]

Glad you liked the portrait. I saw it and thought: This is Hubelpot! The backgroud-change is probably wise, but I actually didn't refer it to Lenin until Domi mentioned it.

The tax-collector dialogue is a nice touch, a "banter" with a smoeone you cannot have in the party. That doesn't happen often, except for the NPC's bantering with thier families.

Now, we even have two possible voice-actors, since notmrt also offered his services.

About the quest (sorry if I'm an a**hole now, I like the idea, but I feel I need to be a little negative about some things... ):

I really think we should change the title from "The Slave Lords". It makes it sound something different than it is. And another question: Is the quest going to take a pause when the contact flees, until the PC finds the letter in the Nalia/Roenall-quest? In that case, I think it's a very bad idea. What if the party doesn't include Nalia? What if the PC even refuses Nalia to help her clean the keep? What if the Nalia/Roenall-quest is already completed when the party picks up Hubelpot? Bob said that this mod shouldn't mess with other quests, but this does. You are forced to do the Nalia/Roenall-quest, in order to complete the Hubelpot-quest. That's not good at all.

And, I don't think the slavers should have anything to do with Hubelpot's quest. Firstly, it's interfering with other quest, and secondly, it's a bit far-fetched. The slavers deals with slaves, not robbing vegetable-caravans. Sure we can expand their operation, but that'll be messing with other quests. Surely there must be some other kind of organisation (if necessary, we can create on) capable of robbing vegetable-caravans in the whole city of Athkatla?

Am I totally wrong, just say so, and I'll shut up.

[BobTokyo]

About the quest (sorry if I'm an a**hole now, I like the idea, but I feel I need to be a little negative about some things...      ):

I really think we should change the title from "The Slave Lords". It makes it sound something different than it is. And another question: Is the quest going to take a pause when the contact flees, until the PC finds the letter in the Nalia/Roenall-quest? In that case, I think it's a very bad idea. What if the party doesn't include Nalia? What if the PC even refuses Nalia to help her clean the keep? What if the Nalia/Roenall-quest is already completed when the party picks up Hubelpot? Bob said that this mod shouldn't mess with other quests, but this does. You are forced to do the Nalia/Roenall-quest, in order to complete the Hubelpot-quest. That's not good at all.

And, I don't think the slavers should have anything to do with Hubelpot's quest. Firstly, it's interfering with other quest, and secondly, it's a bit far-fetched. The slavers deals with slaves, not robbing vegetable-caravans. Sure we can expand their operation, but that'll be messing with other quests. Surely there must be some other kind of organisation (if necessary, we can create on) capable of robbing vegetable-caravans in the whole city of Athkatla?

Am I totally wrong, just say so, and I'll shut up. 

I posted it for feedback; feedback is good.

Changing the title is no problem. A Matter of Some Cabbages might be good. The pause is a problem; I often do Nalia's quest in order to have an excuse to go after the Slave Lords, so I didn't think about the problem. Maybe the note could be placed on the body of the Captain in the slave warehouse (building that looks like a ship). That would also give the party an excuse to go after the Guarded Compound early if they felt they could take it.

The Slave Lords themselves are linked to the Twisted Rune, Nalia's Keep, and the Skinner murders. Linking them to this is just following the trend. They didn't highjack a vegetable caravan, their minions highjacked a supply caravan that included Hubelpots vegetables.
Also, I like the idea that to the men who ruined him he isn't even important enough to threaten, and the compound saves us from having to place another battle and reward to conclude his quest.

However, there is one more good possibility; in the bridge district there is a group of adventurers in one noth-eastern building who attack the party for no reason as soon as you enter. Maybe they could be the highjackers? The clue from the prostitute could point to "bully boys in the bridge district, I went back with 'em once to their place, i the north east it was." Hubelpot's post combat dialog could be triggerespellholdstudios.netd by opening the chest, into which we could place the gold they got by selling off the contents of the supply caravan.

Better? Worse? Alternatives?

Now, we even have two possible voice-actors, since notmrt also offered his services.

NotMrT is the right age and lives in the right part of the world for Hubelpot's accent, but we can use another voice actor. When we hit that stage, maybe Thrain would be willing to voice Hubelpot's son, Young Thistledown?

I'll PM him and see.

Edited by BobTokyo, 08 July 2004 - 12:47 PM.

[SConrad]

I posted it for feedback; feedback is good.

Course it is.

Changing the title is no problem. A Matter of Some Cabbages might be good. The pause is a problem; I often do Nalia's quest in order to have an excuse to go after the Slave Lords, so I didn't think about the problem. Maybe the note could be placed on the body of the Captain in the slave warehouse (building that looks like a ship). That would also give the party an excuse to go after the Guarded Compound early if they felt they could take it.

The same problem. If you've already cleansed the warehouse, without him in the party? Still dependent on other quests.

The Slave Lords themselves are linked to the Twisted Rune, Nalia's Keep, and the Skinner murders. Linking them to this is just following the trend. They didn't highjack a vegetable caravan, their minions highjacked a supply caravan that included Hubelpots vegetables.
Also, I like the idea that to the men who ruined him he isn't even important enough to threaten, and the compound saves us from having to place another battle and reward to conclude his quest.

Well, the first part is true. The second part as well.

However, there is one more good possibility; in the bridge district there is a group of adventurers in one noth-eastern building who attack the party for no reason as soon as you enter. Maybe they could be the highjackers? The clue from the prostitute could point to "bully boys in the bridge district, I went back with 'em once to their place, i the north east it was." Hubelpot's post combat dialog could be triggered by opening the chest, into which we could place the gold they got by selling off the contents of the supply caravan.

That's true, as well. The important thing is not to make the bad guys too powerful. Why would some extremely dangerous and powerful persons with a lot of dirty things on thier hands, and with a large criminal organisation care about a simple supply-caravan, which includes vegetables? No, the idea is too make the robbers not too effective as thieves, or thugs. That's why I don't think the Guarded Compound is a good idea. They are quite challenging, and if you install the Improved version from the Tactics-mod, they'll be even thougher. Why on earth would those guys care about Hubelpot's vegetables? If they did rob the caravan (which suggests that they were after something more valuable), the most logical thing for them would to leave the vegetables.

About the robbers, they could haspellholdstudios.netve started a robbing-band on their own, or they could be minions to someone else (the Slave Lords could work, here).

"Better? Worse? Alternatives?"

[BobTokyo]

I posted it for feedback; feedback is good.

Course it is.

Changing the title is no problem. A Matter of Some Cabbages might be good. The pause is a problem; I often do Nalia's quest in order to have an excuse to go after the Slave Lords, so I didn't think about the problem. Maybe the note could be placed on the body of the Captain in the slave warehouse (building that looks like a ship). That would also give the party an excuse to go after the Guarded Compound early if they felt they could take it.

The same problem. If you've already cleansed the warehouse, without him in the party? Still dependent on other quests.

The Slave Lords themselves are linked to the Twisted Rune, Nalia's Keep, and the Skinner murders. Linking them to this is just following the trend. They didn't highjack a vegetable caravan, their minions highjacked a supply caravan that included Hubelpots vegetables.
Also, I like the idea that to the men who ruined him he isn't even important enough to threaten, and the compound saves us from having to place another battle and reward to conclude his quest.

Well, the first part is true. The second part as well.

However, there is one more good possibility; in the bridge district there is a group of adventurers in one noth-eastern building who attack the party for no reason as soon as you enter. Maybe they could be the highjackers? The clue from the prostitute could point to "bully boys in the bridge district, I went back with 'em once to their place, i the north east it was." Hubelpot's post combat dialog could be triggered by opening the chest, into which we could place the gold they got by selling off the contents of the supply caravan.

That's true, as well. The important thing is not to make the bad guys too powerful. Why would some extremely dangerous and powerful persons with a lot of dirty things on thier hands, and with a large criminal organisation care about a simple supply-caravan, which includes vegetables? No, the idea is too make the robbers not too effective as thieves, or thugs. That's why I don't think the Guarded Compound is a good idea. They are quite challenging, and if you install the Improved version from the Tactics-mod, they'll be even thougher. Why on earth would tspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.nethose guys care about Hubelpot's vegetables? If they did rob the caravan (which suggests that they were after something more valuable), the most logical thing for them would to leave the vegetables.

About the robbers, they could have started a robbing-band on their own, or they could be minions to someone else (the Slave Lords could work, here).

"Better? Worse? Alternatives?"

Hmmm. I realy like the idea of nobs who ruined Hubelpot's business without even noticing, people so far above a simple merchant that he'd have no chance of even seeing them without the help of CHARNAME. The slave lords fit that bill well. The idea that there was something useful in the caravan they wanted, and that they just left Hubelpot's shipment to rot, doesn't bother me. Hubelpot is not imporant to the schemes of the mighty, and it would be typical for the powers that be to casually destroy his goods. On the other hand, I can see not wanting to force the start of a new game just to try out Hubelpot's quest. So . . .

What if we have the "girl" upstairs point Hubelpot to the thugs in the bridge district, who actually robbed the supply caravan. The party goes to the building, enters, gets attacked, then looks in the chest. In the chest is some gold (which Hubelpot asks to deliver to his son in order to pay back his creditors) and a ledger indicating a payment from the slave lords for the attack on the caravan. The ledger will not give the location of the Slaver's Stronghold. If the Guarded Compound has already been cleared, that's the end of it. If it hasn't, then when the party finally reaches the compound, Hubelpot gets his interjection insulting the Slave Lords, who ignore him completely.

Feedback still needed.

[SConrad]

I posted it for feedback; feedback is good.

Course it is.

Changing the title is no problem. A Matter of Some Cabbages might be good. The pause is a problem; I often do Nalia's quest in order to have an excuse to go after the Slave Lords, so I didn't think about the problem. Maybe the note could be placed on the body of the Captain in the slave warehouse (building that looks like a ship). That would also give the party an excuse to go after the Guarded Compound early if they felt they could take it.

The same problem. If you've already cleansed the warehouse, without him in the party? Still dependent on other quests.

The Slave Lords themselves are linked to the Twisted Rune, Nalia's Keep, and the Skinner murders. Linking them to this is just following the trend. They didn't highjack a vegetable caravan, their minions highjacked a supply caravan that included Hubelpots vegetables.
Also, I like the idea that to the men who ruined him he isn't even important enough to threaten, and the compound saves us from having to place another battle and reward to conclude his quest.

Well, the first part is true. The second part as well.

However, there is one more good possibility; in the bridge district there is a group of adventurers in one noth-eastern building who attack the party for no reason as soon as you enter. Maybe they could be the highjackers? The clue from the prostitute could point to "bully boys in the bridge district, I went back with 'em once to their place, i the north east it was." Hubelpot's post combat dialog could be triggered by opening the chest, into which we could place the gold they got by selling off the contents of the supply caravan.

That's true, as well. The important thing is not to make the bad guys too powerful. Why would some extremely dangerous and powerful persons with a lot of dirty things on thier hands, and with a large criminal organisation care about a simple supply-caravan, which includes vegetables? No, the idea is too make the robbersspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.net not too effective as thieves, or thugs. That's why I don't think the Guarded Compound is a good idea. They are quite challenging, and if you install the Improved version from the Tactics-mod, they'll be even thougher. Why on earth would those guys care about Hubelpot's vegetables? If they did rob the caravan (which suggests that they were after something more valuable), the most logical thing for them would to leave the vegetables.

About the robbers, they could have started a robbing-band on their own, or they could be minions to someone else (the Slave Lords could work, here).

"Better? Worse? Alternatives?"

Hmmm. I realy like the idea of nobs who ruined Hubelpot's business without even noticing, people so far above a simple merchant that he'd have no chance of even seeing them without the help of CHARNAME. The slave lords fit that bill well. The idea that there was something useful in the caravan they wanted, and that they just left Hubelpot's shipment to rot, doesn't bother me. Hubelpot is not imporant to the schemes of the mighty, and it would be typical for the powers that be to casually destroy his goods. On the other hand, I can see not wanting to force the start of a new game just to try out Hubelpot's quest. So . . .

What if we have the "girl" upstairs point Hubelpot to the thugs in the bridge district, who actually robbed the supply caravan. The party goes to the building, enters, gets attacked, then looks in the chest. In the chest is some gold (which Hubelpot asks to deliver to his son in order to pay back his creditors) and a ledger indicating a payment from the slave lords for the attack on the caravan. The ledger will not give the location of the Slaver's Stronghold. If the Guarded Compound has already been cleared, that's the end of it. If it hasn't, then when the party finally reaches the compound, Hubelpot gets his interjection insulting the Slave Lords, who ignore him completely.

Feedback still needed.

Much better...

I would also like to have more dialogue with his son, if we get a voice-actor. Another quest?

Btw, did you read my PM is sent yesterday (the reply)?

[BobTokyo]

Btw, did you read my PM is sent yesterday (the reply)?

Heading back into work now, but I'll PM you on it when I get home.

[SConrad]

Yeah, do that...

[AnnabelleRose]

Wow is all I can say about this Mod. What started out as a joke, then turned into a humorus diversion is turning into possibly one of the better NPC mods on the market. Go us!

Loving the idea of this quest. I do disagree with some points. I like the idea of including the cats who attack you pointlessly in the warehouse. Might be neat to find a letter (supply list of what was in the caravan) in one of the boxes. As for cats who might have allready completed some of these areas... many NPC/Mods come with the disclaimer "You need to start a new game, OR have not completed these areas of the game yet. I see no reason that this one could not have done this as well.

To get possible clues, you could take the information to the guard at the entrance to the bridge district (I forget his name), and/or Chief Inspector Brega. Perhaps a point of reputation could be earned for dealing with these "bandits" at the end of all of this as well.

[BobTokyo]

Loving the idea of this quest. I do disagree with some points. I like the idea of including the cats who attack you pointlessly in the warehouse. Might be neat to find a letter (supply list of what was in the caravan) in one of the boxes. As for cats who might have allready completed some of these areas... many NPC/Mods come with the disclaimer "You need to start a new game, OR have not completed these areas of the game yet. I see no reason that this one could not have done this as well.

To get possible clues, you could take the information to the guard at the entrance to the bridge district (I forget his name), and/or Chief Inspector Brega. Perhaps a point of reputation could be earned for dealing with these "bandits" at the end of all of this as well.

I like the idea of asking the guard at the enterance to the Beidge District (the guy who gets you started on the skinner murders) for directions to the house of the thugs. That dialog should only be triggered if CHARNAME asks a question after the Skinner speech. I also like the idea of getting a quest reward, but I don't want to go to Chief Inspector Brega. What if presenting the cash from the chest along with the note to Hubelpot's son got the party 10,000 XP each for having saved Hubelpot's family from bankruptcy?

[SConrad]

Wow is all I can say about this Mod. What started out as a joke, then turned into a humorus diversion is turning into possibly one of the better NPC mods on the market. Go us!

Yes, go us!

Loving the idea of this quest. I do disagree with some points. I like the idea of including the cats who attack you pointlessly in the warehouse. Might be neat to find a letter (supply list of what was in the caravan) in one of the boxes. As for cats who might have allready completed some of these areas... many NPC/Mods come with the disclaimer "You need to start a new game, OR have not completed these areas of the game yet. I see no reason that this one could not have done this as well.

I disagree with that. One of the points of doing this mod was not to interfere with other mods/quests. Doing the warehouse, would firstly interfear with that quest, and secondly (I don't know if Bob or domi agrees with me on this) I don't think we should do the "You must start a new game". That takes away one of the points of this mod (the NPC not being as every other mod out there). So, no, I strongly disagree. The unused adventuringparty will work fine. And the guarded compound, if it haven't been cleared, already. Otherwise, I doesn't matter.

Besides, doing the "You must start a new game" will only bring more complexity into the mod. Not for us, but for the one thinking about playing it (i.e. "I want to play this mod, but I don't want to start a new game, so I'm skipping the mod"). And I thought we'd agreed on not to make this a highly complicated and complex mod at all. So the more we can avoid unneccessary complication, the better.

I'm still not giving up on my kit, though... That's not complexity, that's the way (I think) it's supposed to be. But I'll wait for Bob's PM before I'll make any more statements.

To get possible clues, you could take the information to the guard at the entrance to the bridge district (I forget his name), and/or Chief Inspector Brega. Perhaps a point of reputation could be earned for dealing with these "bandits" at the end of all of this as well.

Lt. Aegisfield, well, hmm... What would he know about some stolen vegetables? He's got a murderer in the Bridge-district to worry about. The reputation for reporting the death of the bandits is, on the other hand, a very good idea. But only if you go to Brega and tell him what've happened.

I'm not trying to push you down, Tom. Just protesting against ideas I find although good, not very fitting in this mod. Sorry if I'm sounding to harsh. It's not intended that way.

[SConrad]

Bob was quicker than me... Didn't read his post before posting my post.

My opinions haven't changed, though.

[AnnabelleRose]

I'm not trying to push you down, Tom. Just protesting against ideas I find although good, not very fitting in this mod. Sorry if I'm sounding to harsh. It's not intended that way.

heh. I am mature enough to handle someone disagreeing with me. Also it helps that you have been nothing less then polite with your diffrences of opinions.

Besides, doing the "You must start a new game" will only bring more complexity into the mod. Not for us, but for the one thinking about playing it (i.e. "I want to play this mod, but I don't want to start a new game, so I'm skipping the mod"). And I thought we'd agreed on not to make this a highly complicated and complex mod at all. So the more we can avoid unneccessary complication, the better.

That makes a darn good point. I find myself agreeing with that.

As for Lt. Aegisfield (thanks for dropping the name btw) Perhaps asking him if he has seen any suspiscioun individuals, or if anyone has been seen coming though carrying large crates?

*EDIT*

I  like the idea of asking the guard at the enterance to the Beidge District (the guy who gets you started on the skinner murders) for directions to the house of the thugs. That dialog should only be triggered if CHARNAME asks a question after the Skinner speech. I also like the idea of getting a quest reward, but I don't want to go to Chief Inspector Brega. What if presenting the cash from the chest along with the note to Hubelpot's son got the party 10,000 XP each for having saved Hubelpot's family from bankruptcy?

I am very cool with that. Still like the idea of a point of rep as well possibly.

Edited by MajorTomSawyer, 08 July 2004 - 07:01 PM.

[BobTokyo]

Lt. Aegisfield, well, hmm... What would he know about some stolen vegetables? He's got a murderer in the Bridge-district to worry about. The reputation for reporting the death of the bandits is, on the other hand, a very good idea. But only if you go to Brega and tell him what've happened.

I can take the Lt.Aegisfield involvement or leave it; it's just another link, and not a vital one. He doesn't have to know anything about the caravan attack, he only has to know that yes, there are some local characters that match that description, and I saw them hanging around that building over there.

Hubelpot really won't want to go to the authorities on this. He would not want to report that he'd been involved in the murder of five men (bandits or not), and he'll be convinced that the authorities would insist on keeping th money, money he needs for his debts. Yes, we as players know that the authorities never ask why CHARNAME is killing off half of the city and don't do anything about it unless CHARNAME has a very low rep, but Hugelpot does not know that; to him, the authorities are serious, distant and dangerous. Hubelpot doesn't know that it's just a game.

Edited by BobTokyo, 08 July 2004 - 07:38 PM.

[BobTokyo]

I'm still not giving up on my kit, though... That's not complexity, that's the way (I think) it's supposed to be. But I'll wait for Bob's PM before I'll make any more statements.

Let me know what you thought of my alternatives.

[SConrad]

heh. I am mature enough to handle someone disagreeing with me. Also it helps that you have been nothing less then polite with your diffrences of opinions.

Glad to hear that. NOTE TO ALL READERS: If I'm not polite at some point, in any discussion and you feel that I might have pushed you down or treated you in a way that makes you feel bad, let me know immediatly, and I'll spank myself.

That makes a darn good point. I find myself agreeing with that.

Glad to hear that too.

As for Lt. Aegisfield (thanks for dropping the name btw) Perhaps asking him if he has seen any suspiscioun individuals, or if anyone has been seen coming though carrying large crates?

I can take the Lt.Aegisfield involvement or leave it; it's just another link, and not a vital one. He doesn't have to know anything about the caravan attack, he only has to know that yes, there are some local characters that match that description, and I saw them hanging around that building over there.

I won't do anything but to agree. Asking Aegisfield is a good idea.

I'm still not giving up on my kit, though...  That's not complexity, that's the way (I think) it's supposed to be. But I'll wait for Bob's PM before I'll make any more statements.

Let me know what you thought of my alternatives.

I found it a very good idea at the whole, but made a few suggestions.

[AnnabelleRose]

About Conrad's kit, I like it. If it was done like Chloe's version of the Kensai kit, it COULD be compatable with all other mods (I think). I have had success in the past with the Chloe mod with BP (once I got my install right). Make it a NPC only kit and it should work (if the rest of you like it).

I do stick to my thoughts of keeping it true neutral only, as per 2nd ed D&D druid rules.

[BobTokyo]

If it was done like Chloe's version of the Kensai kit, it COULD be compatable with all other mods (I think). I have had success in the past with the Chloe mod with BP (once I got my install right). Make it a NPC only kit and it should work (if the rest of you like it).

That's a good thought, and might save us loads of trouble. We should look at how Chloe's kit was done.

There is another kit under discussion, but nothing final yet.

I like Conrad's kit too, but I think it pushes the mod's humour in a direction I'm trying to avoid. We'll see where we end up.