59 replies to this topic

[Cryomancer]

Have you noticed that almost every time (in movies, books, and games) that the sith reappear, they always seem to obliterate the jedi with ease and come within an inch of talking over the universe but then some unknown courageous personage comes in and kills the head baddie single-handedly? This theme is becoming very redundant. I'd like to see an appearing of the sith that doesn't almost completely destroy the Jedi Order. I mean, shouldn't they be ready for things like this? The constant annihilating of the Jedi just reinforces the Sith ideals.

[SConrad]

It's not actually Sith's in KotOR. The real Sith's died out before even before KotOR (or so I heard), only to reappear when the movies takes place. Malak and Revan only take the name.

Sith is (I could be desperatly wrong here), as I understood it, a special race with skills in the dark side of the force. Not an order, like the jedi's are. I'm also under the impression that an individual sith is stronger than an individual jedi. "Two there is, no more, no less", says Yoda in EP1. And the massive trouble the two of them cause compared to the numbers of the jedi's (several hundred at least) suggests that an average sith is stronger than an average jedi. Exceptions exists, of course.

Then again, I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if that's the case.

[Cryomancer]

I just assumed that the Sith we know and love are imposters, you know, evil dark force users that follow the Sith ideal. I kinda like to think of true Sith being some ancient extinct race that no one knows much about. Also....if there were true Sith are/were there true Jedi? hmm, an interesting thought...

[SConrad]

I just assumed that the Sith we know and love are imposters, you know, evil dark force users that follow the Sith ideal. I kinda like to think of true Sith being some ancient extinct race that no one knows much about. Also....if there were true Sith are/were there true Jedi? hmm, an interesting thought...

Exactly, sith's are an extinct race, which returns in EP1. But jedi's are an order. Nothing else. Please, don't take that away from me. The thought of Obi-Wan as something else than a true jedi breaks my heart.

[Cryomancer]

I just thought that with the whole "balance in the force" thing, if there was a Sith species it would only make sense to have a Jedi species.

[Tancred]

The Sith, originally, were a race of beings who had the misfortune to be visited by a large band of renegade Jedi on the run from the Republic 25,000 years before the films. These Jedi were fledgling dark-side users, the losing side in a schism of beliefs in the young Jedi Order, and they assumed rulership of the Sith race (the dead Sith Lord, Ajunta Pall, is one of these original Dark Jedi, I assume). Over time dynasties formed and the Sith Empire, a corrupt multi-system empire, was born.

5000 years before the films, the Republic and the Sith Empire came into contact once more, triggering the 'Great Hyperspace War', a vast conflict eventually won by the Republic. This sees the end of the Sith Empire.

4000 years before the films, and about 50 years before KOTOR I assume, a renegade Jedi named Exar Kun discovered an ancient Sith tomb and re-ignited the schism, again splitting the Jedi Order in half and starting another war that lasted about 4 years.

Then come the non-canonical events of KOTOR...

2000 years before the films, although the Sith species had been made extinct, dark-side users secretly continued the teachings of the 'Sith' - the dark side cult had taken the name of the extinct race by this point.

1000 years before the films the third and last great battle between Sith and Jedi was fought; the Jedi believed the Sith finally dead after this battle, but one Sith survivor, Darth Bane, escaped. Bane was quite the visionary, because he was the one who realised the Sith were never going to win in a straight fight, especially as the Sith ethos often promoted infighting. So, he came up with the Rule of Two, that would see to it that there would only ever be two Sith at any one time. The Sith Lord would work in secret to weaken and destroy the Republic, while training an apprentice that would eventually kill and succeed him and continue that fight.

And during the movies, the Sith Lord Palpatine makes the final moves in his plan to do just that.

The Sith race had no real affinity to the Dark Side - that came later, as their race became permeated with the Dark Side emanating from the evil Jedi. What marks the Sith cult as the natural opponents of the Jedi is that their teachings are totally based upon the Dark Side - whereas Revan and Malak, for example, are fallen Jedi who use corrupted Jedi techniques, the Sith have their own *completely* different system of teachings and methods based around focussing and channelling one's rage and anger.

It's the difference between Vader (fallen Jedi who uses the Force in rudimentary but powerful ways to crush people's throats) and Palpatine (uses force lightning, which involves channelling pure Dark Side power)

EDIT: Darth Maul, according to the official blurb, is a 'Zabrak', not a Sith. The Sith species are extinct by the time of the movies.

Edited by Tancred, 28 June 2004 - 02:42 PM.

[Cryomancer]

thank you for that Tancred. Helps it make more sense.

[SConrad]

Thanks for the brilliant explanation, Tancred. "No day in which you learn something is a complete loss". Now, I've learned something.

But how did you learn about this? Is there some kind of book or webpage or something that gives background information about the Star Wars-galaxy?

This topic should be pinned, btw. In case anyone wonder in the future. So that Tancred doesn't have to explain over and over again.

[Tancred]

There's plenty of places to find this info on the Net, certainly - official online encyclopedias, etc. I can't claim to be some kind of know-it-all, this is an abridged version of the timeline from the Dark Side Sourcebook for the WotCoast Star Wars RPG. It's about as canonical as the Expanded Universe (i.e. non-movie) stuff gets.

[SConrad]

There's plenty of places to find this info on the Net, certainly - official online encyclopedias, etc. I can't claim to be some kind of know-it-all, this is an abridged version of the timeline from the Dark Side Sourcebook for the WotCoast Star Wars RPG. It's about as canonical as the Expanded Universe (i.e. non-movie) stuff gets.

To be annoying: Links?

[Tancred]

Uh... well, you might try:

The Force.Net

or

Star Wars Source.Net

[SConrad]

You're my hero, for the day...

[Celestine]

interesting. I like the idea of sith being part of an ancient extinct race. That been said before, it made alot of sense to me. So the sith today is much like the fallen paladin.

[Cryomancer]

Exactly. Unless you're just an insane clone of a long dead Jedi Master like Joruus C'baoth...but that doesn't have to do with anything.

[Mongoose87]

I wouldn't call C'boath a sith. He was insane. There is no other word for it.
The book Star Wars: The Essential Chronology is where I got most of my nowledge of the ancient Jedi and Sith. Of course, that was several years ago, so I'm not so fresh... I think I need to take another trip to the library.

[Eltharodo]

regarding balance in the force, I always thought of it in this context;

Each Sith has a gun <any type of gun, it really is immaterial>.  Every Jedi has a pillow.  A single sith can kill any jedi he want to just like that.  But there is balance becuase there are so many Jedi<pillows>.  Enough pillows can destroy a sith, even if he has a gun.  Or at the very least, can pose enough of a threat that action can be abstained.  Thus, there can be balance in the force, even if there are like 3 sith and 592 jedi.  Savvy?  Well....I'm sure that's the basic idea that George Lucas had in mind......

[Mongoose87]

But what about when a single pillow slew two guns?

[Celestine]

But what about when a single pillow slew two guns?

then he become the gun?

[Eltharodo]

then you find out where you buy the reinforced pillows and follow suit, naturally <or alternatively, create another sith when someone kills the guy with the pillow with a sniper rifle purely so that HE can have the pillow.  Of course, by kiling someone, he is happier with the gun, NOT the pillow!>  Gargh!  So confusing!