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The Blood War


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Poll: Who will win the Blood War? (27 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win the Blood War?

  1. Demons (5 votes [18.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.52%

  2. Devils (22 votes [81.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.48%

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#61 Consis

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 10:46 PM

What a turnoff...

As if, your logic is as flawed as it is incorrect. The abyss is an infinite number of layers of finite size? Alright then, let's see your proof. Where's the scripture stating your accepted canon? The fact is, it doesn't exist. Therefore your information is incorrect.

The real question of size comes not from the size of this plane or that plane of existence. It simply isn't an issue. It isn't debated because the worlds from which both come are in fact infinite in size. So now that we have this small fact revisiting the everlasting truth, we can now move forward in a more understandable and logical frame of mind.

The real issue and ground for debate are the details of the inhabitants of each plane of existence. If you want to bore a reader into drooling puddles of mindless snooze then by all means mark and record your algorythm for which layers are infinite, finite, layered, etc.

However if you want to entice your reader and actually plan to sell more than two copies(one for yourself and the other sent to your loyal mother who will read anything to make her son happy) then you must entrance and envelope yourself in the details of habitat, ecology, special abilities, realm properties when confronted with which spells are being cast within its boundaries, etc.

It is my humble opinion that fans of the Forgotten Realms material did not become such after having tutored for a doctrate in philisophical quantum physics. Nay, these are the people whom dare to dream during the day of insurmountable odds being held off by the stout of heart, quick witted, and with a dash of shimmering luck to foil the larger than life mastermind monsters. Not on their watch, as it were, shall these beasties rue the day of promising light and everlasting love.

Edited by Consis, 20 July 2004 - 10:49 PM.


#62 Bane

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 07:25 AM

Anyway it really doesn't matter considering both demons and devils are being churned out from the dead of evil souls. Also if the balance became 'under threat' then Ao would have a right stress to correct it otherwise the DM or whoever his master is will spank him. So basically it is a never ending war but its nice to debate the possible winner.
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#63 raptor

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 08:24 AM

Felstorm: AO was overgod only in the forgotten Realms setting remember :P the hells and abys and such is not limited to Forgoten Realms, they are also working in greyhawk, planescape, and more worlds. so Bel for example is not a Forgotten Realms specific creature, thus AO holds no power over him.

Consis: logic is boring :P

#64 Sillara

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 08:58 PM

I do not know if anyone still cares or needs the information, but I am fairly certain that 2e had a boxed set entitled The Blood War. I suspect that it contains a good deal of information on the Blood War. Maybe.

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#65 Shadow Angel

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 09:09 PM

You are correct. The full name is HellBound: The Blood War.

It does go into the origins of the war, players from the planes, a few battles and battlefields and how mortals can get caught up. It also mentions a secret of the Yogoloths in an included adventure

#66 Deathsangel

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 12:58 AM

What a turnoff...

As if, your logic is as flawed as it is incorrect. The abyss is an infinite number of layers of finite size? Alright then, let's see your proof. Where's the scripture stating your accepted canon? The fact is, it doesn't exist. Therefore your information is incorrect.

Though this does sound a bit weird, it is not entirley incorrect. If I may quite the manual of the planes: No one knows how many layers the abyss has as know one ever lived to tell the tale, some people claim however that the abyss is finite and has 666 layers. (end quote) This number exceeds however every other plane. Baator and Carceri have 9 and 6 and are with them second and third best, after this the layers are from 5 to 2 (Bytopia and Arcadia (the latter one lost a layer to mechanus))

The estimation of 666 is because of the numbers link to evil. Even if it are 666 it are many. Their are by the way more planes with finite layers, but who are infinite as themselves. Archeron for example. All cubes that float in space are finite, the space itself is infinite. Mount Celestia's layers are finite, but the Silver Ocean the mountain stands in is infinite.

I also recall a few books in AD&D style of the planes. Though I do play D&D for over 10 years now, I do not have those books, but friends of mine do. I collect a lot of my data on the planes from the book Manual of the Planes, not necessarily being a book about the blood war it does entail a lot of info about all planes!

Edited by Deathsangel, 24 July 2004 - 01:56 AM.

Still modding the Mod for the Wicked... It is a big project you know... And I got sidetracked (several times) a bit... sorry.
However, as we all know, Evil never really sleeps.


Sentences marking (my) life:

Winds of change... Endure them, and in Enduring grow Stronger
It takes a fool to look for logic in a man's heart
Never question the sanity of the insane
The Harmony of Life is Chaos
Living on Wings of Dreams



(1st march 2009) SHS women over me:
Kat: if there were more guys that looked like you out here, people's offspring wouldnt be so damn ugly
Noctalys: you are adorable :P

~~ I love it, and I am humbled! Yay! ~~


#67 Bane

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 01:08 AM

What is Mechanus?
Power for the Keep, Power for the Zhentarim!

Defy me and die!

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#68 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 01:48 AM

Info on all the planes can be found here.

#69 Deathsangel

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 01:56 AM

What is Mechanus?

Plane of Law, Strongly Law aligned. From this plane come for example the modrons

Still modding the Mod for the Wicked... It is a big project you know... And I got sidetracked (several times) a bit... sorry.
However, as we all know, Evil never really sleeps.


Sentences marking (my) life:

Winds of change... Endure them, and in Enduring grow Stronger
It takes a fool to look for logic in a man's heart
Never question the sanity of the insane
The Harmony of Life is Chaos
Living on Wings of Dreams



(1st march 2009) SHS women over me:
Kat: if there were more guys that looked like you out here, people's offspring wouldnt be so damn ugly
Noctalys: you are adorable :P

~~ I love it, and I am humbled! Yay! ~~


#70 Deathsangel

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 02:06 AM

@Consis

Just to let you know the only way for a Baatezu or Tanar'ri to permantly die is to be in Baator/Abyss otherwise they are just banished upon 'death' to said plane for about 100 years so f you look at that fact then the reason for them fighting in the grey wastes is because it is a neutral ground (plus both sides barrter with the Night hags for things) and the Balor came about because they were able to seize that power from other Tanar'ri, or they were gifted the power by more powerful beings (means of promotion in the ranks) the Baatezu mans of promotion is more militant and a damn sight harder as well. hope this helps with your story :turnip2:

Because I hate saying bad words I first checked with my friends who have the planescape series of AD&D, which explains besides Hellbound also quite a bit about the blood war. And sorry but this is bullshit!!!!!!!!!! Demons and Devils can permantly die even on other planes. The prime, Outlands, The Inner planes, Astral plane etc. pick a spot. This is according to the books of D&D really nonsence that they can only die on their own plane. It is said nowhere and there are examples where it has been done on the prime for instance.

I do agree on the neutral ground part. And that Baatezu use a strict way for promotion and Tana'ri just look at how much damage one has done.

Still modding the Mod for the Wicked... It is a big project you know... And I got sidetracked (several times) a bit... sorry.
However, as we all know, Evil never really sleeps.


Sentences marking (my) life:

Winds of change... Endure them, and in Enduring grow Stronger
It takes a fool to look for logic in a man's heart
Never question the sanity of the insane
The Harmony of Life is Chaos
Living on Wings of Dreams



(1st march 2009) SHS women over me:
Kat: if there were more guys that looked like you out here, people's offspring wouldnt be so damn ugly
Noctalys: you are adorable :P

~~ I love it, and I am humbled! Yay! ~~


#71 Feanor

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 07:34 AM

Side note. Bel as Lord of the First answers to Asmodeus, as a general in the blood war he answers to the Dark Eight. Keeps him to busy for political infighting. Especially since he used his position as general to take over the first layer.


Bel answers to the Dark Eight ? :huh: I thought he was their leader, being the lord of one of the hells.

By the way, to who answer the Dark Eight ? Asmodeus perhaps ?

#72 Shadow Angel

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 08:39 PM

The Dark Eight only answer to Asmodeus, Lord of the Ninth. They spend one day a year in with him. They are otherwise in surpreme charge of the Blood War.

Bel was appointed to command the armies of Avernus by the Dark Eight. He used that power to launch a coup against the ex Lord of the First.  The other 7 Lords insist that he keep both jobs so that he is to busy to plot against them.

Infernal politics at work.