71 replies to this topic

[MERLANCE]

Neglecting the fact that the Blood War is eternal, and shows no sign of stopping, who would you bet on to win?

Demons have the significant advantage in numbers (Infinite Layers of the Abyss) against the devils (The Nine Hells).

Devils are highly trained and organized against mobs of demons.

There a large number of Demon Lords (infinite?), but only 9 Archdevils, several deposed Archdevils, and the Dark Eight (generals of hell) as major players.

[Feanor]

By the way, when the Blood War started and why ?

The Devils win because they are well organised. The Demon Lords are too busy fighting each other for power, while, in the Hells, Asmodeus manages to control the other lords.

[Deathsangel]

However not all demons fight against the devils. Not all demons are Tana'ri and not all Devils are Baatezu.

However the demons that are not Baatezu do not necessarily attack Baatezu.

The demons that are not Tana'ri however do attack Tana'ri, some even prefer them as their meal (like bebilith).

There is a myth and I quote Manual of The Planes:

The Crawling City has never directly involved itself in the Blood War, but it is said once it does the Blood War will end.

The Crawling City is owned by a general of the Yugoloth (the race of NE outsiders). These Yugoloth ar mercenaries for hire and the Baatezu are the better ones to make a fine contract. So I reckon the Baatezu one day will get The Crawling City in to the Blood War and the Baatezu will win.

[Deathsangel]

By the way, when the Blood War started and why ?

The Devils win because they are well organised. The Devil Lords are too busy fighting each other for power, while, in the Hells, Asmodeus manages to control the other lords.

Not really true Asmodeus had one time to do with the Great Revolt. Some of the Demon Lords rised against him, but it did not succeed, and some leaders where banished, others were misformed, like Baalzebul (formely a Deva).

When it started no one knows, it has raged and will rage for eons. Why? Because the Baatezu and Tana'ri have a dispute what is the ultimate evil.

Tana'ri believe this to be the mayhem and slaughter they cause, while the Baatezu believe in fine torture and rule from above.

Edited by Deathsangel, 24 June 2004 - 03:34 AM.

[Bane]

Law and order will beat chaos

[Cyric]

I'm sure if one side would gain a greater advantage and start to win the celestials would intervent. The Blood War is the only barrier hindering the armies of Evil before invading the Higher Planes and because of that the celestials need the war to continue as long as possible.

[Schatten]

I'm sure if one side would gain a greater advantage and start to win the celestials would intervent. The Blood War is the only barrier hindering the armies of Evil before invading the Higher Planes and because of that the celestials need the war to continue as long as possible.

yep, i think so, too. nothing could stop them if they were "allied".

[Archmage Silver]

yep, i think so, too. nothing could stop them if they were "allied".

Except Lord Ao.

[Bane]

Does his power extend to their realms, maybe they could leave his realmspace/crystal sphere

[MERLANCE]

Does his power extend to their realms, maybe they could leave his realmspace/crystal sphere

His power must, how else would he have forced the gods into avatar form in the Time of Troubles? The gods all have a hoome on other planes, therefore his power must extend to those planes, at least the ones in the Realms Cosmology.

Yup. Yugoloths will be the deciding factor

Im pretty sure Celestials have sent armies to kill a bunch of demons or devils in the past, just to even things out if one side gains an advantage. I think it must have been a 2e thing I read it in maybe something Planescape.

[Bane]

He forced gods to walk Toril but I didn't see any mention of any of the demon/devil lords

[MERLANCE]

He forced gods to walk Toril but I didn't see any mention of any of the demon/devil lords

They arent gods, thus he did not force them to. If he could force the gods to, he must be able to do so with demons and devils?

The only one I think was a true deity was Orcus, but I think he was already dead in the Realms.

Edited by MERLANCE, 24 June 2004 - 07:17 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Even if the Celestials intervene, it would be difficult for them, cause I can imagine them fighting of either Baatezu or Tana'ri, but as I stated before (and Merlance agreed) there are still the Yugoloth. They are the ones who are going to decide, what the outcome will be.


Have any of you given any thoughs about Mechanus by the way? Who will win when the formians finally do hit upon the cogs of the modrons and the inevitables?

[NiGHTMARE]

Ao could force the gods to walk Faerun because they have a permanent "divine link" to Faerun (or more precisely Realmspace). He could not have forced deities who're unconnected to Realmspace (f.ex the Greyhawk gods Hextor and Trithereon, or the Dragonlance gods Paladine and Sargonnas) to walk the Realms even if he wanted to.

Also, in the case of deities who're worshipped on multiple spheres, Ao didn't manage to bring the entirety of that deity to Faerun, only some of it. Hence worshippers of Lloth, Clangdeddin, Sehanine Moonbow, etc on other worlds still recieved their spells during the Time of Troubles.

Ao is all powerful, but only in Realmspace. Elsewhere there are other deities/beings who're just as powerful if not even more powerful - e.g. the Lady of Pain.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 24 June 2004 - 08:18 AM.

[Bane]

so where is the Ldy of Pain more powerful, Sigil? (is she evil, I am guessing yes)

who has the real power to control Lolth then and who is the leader of the dragonlance gods (who is their overgod?)

[MERLANCE]

Have any of you given any thoughs about Mechanus by the way? Who will win when the formians finally do hit upon the cogs of the modrons and the inevitables?

The Modrons, Definitely the Modrons.

Really, modrons rock. Inevitables probably wouldnt do anything.

[NiGHTMARE]

so where is the Ldy of Pain more powerful, Sigil? (is she evil, I am guessing yes)

who has the real power to control Lolth then and who is the leader of the dragonlance gods (who is their overgod?)

Sigil is the centre of all balance in the D&Dverse, and the Lady of Pain is effectively a part of the city, the same way Ao is part of Realmspace. So in other words, she's true neutral (but with evil tendencies).

The Lady and Pain and Ao are the only D&D beings I've ever heard of who have power over gods, but each of them only has that power if the god enters/is connected with their realm of influence. As far as I know none of the other worlds or planes in the D&Dverse have overgods - at least none that we've been told about.

Some of the non-Realms pantheons of deities do have leaders, but they in no way have the sort of power over their fellow gods as Ao does.

[Xander77]

Dragonlance has an Overgod... or not... or does... it's all very confusing

[NiGHTMARE]

If there is a Dragonlance Overgod, I don't think he's been mentioned in any Dragonlance products yet. I could be wrong though.

[Xander77]

Chaos.

That is, Ionthas.

That is, the Highlord.

That is, Takhsis.

That is... whatever.

Edited by Xander77, 24 June 2004 - 12:51 PM.