121 replies to this topic

[raptor]

Thought of mind: I belive it was in the book "Trial of Cyric the mad" that the collected gods called upon AO to judge whether Cyric was fit or not to eb a god, in the middle of the discussion (read: AO yelling Mystras hide) Cyric entered, and Mystra got the impression that AO couldn't force him away.

Now i must shamefully admit i seem unable to refind my copy of the aforementioned book. But that would make AO not completelly all-mighty. Also notice how the FR deity book names Divine Ranking above 21+ even though the highest deity is ranked 19 (Chauntea).

So... it could technically be posible that Cyric on height of hes mad power actually closed on AO's power/divine ranking ?

[Ismail]

Well, by what I've gathered from this thread, Ao is quite clearly not ALL-POWERFUL, as he himself admitted even he cannot resurrect the true and original Mystra.

[NiGHTMARE]

I'd guess that Ao couldn't resurrect Mystra because by that time all her essence had left Realmspace, and he has no influence whatsoever in other planes or crystal spheres.

Realms deities who reside in other planes are not free from his grasp because they're permanently tied to the Realms. If they withdrew completely outside Realmspace, he wouldn't be able to touch them, but then they'd no longer be able to grant their followers spells, etc.

[Bane]

Ao is the incarnation of balance within chaos (is there such a thing?) so he is not all-mighty anyway because he is just power with a will that has become sentient aeons ago. I must admit he seems completely lame considering he can only affect his realmspace and only his crystal sphere, if you look at other games such as the ones made by Games Workshop the four gods of chaos (Khorne-Violence, Slaanesh-Pleasure, Nurgle-Decay/disease, Tzeentch-sorcery) all have powers that extends all over the galaxy and they actually seem immensly powerful unlike Ao who seems to be made of similar stuff to them. But anyway..


How can you leave Ao's realmspace?
Does divine ranking actually make you more powerful or is it just something prestigious to represent importance/age?


I am reading the avatar series atm so I can't comment on Cyric too much except that he is the biggest Weiner ever (he has no allies and is the most hated god of FR, moreso than Talos!!).

[NiGHTMARE]

Most of the Realms deities don't actually live in the Realms. In fact, Ao doesn't let any deity more powerful than a demipower reside there. They create some form of divine connection with Aber-Toril/Realmspace through which they can channel power to their priests (and send avatars, etc if they so chose), but obviously this is only a small fraction of their power.

Numerous deities, particularly the non-human ones, also have influence in other crystal spheres. Lloth, for example, is supposed to be connected to dozens if not hundreds of other worlds.

[Bane]

how can gods affect outside crystal spheres but not Ao?

[NiGHTMARE]

Because they're so closely linked - Ao is a part of Realmspace, and Realmspace is a part of Ao.

[Deathsangel]

Sorry but euh... not convinced. Certainly not because you state here Cyric the Mad. I reckon that be mad as in crazy 

'Mad' because the story of the book is taking place in the time after Cyric reads the Cyrinishad and temporary loses his mind. Later he is cured by Malik.

----
"The truth is that I am still a more worthy god than any of you!" The One spoke with a full mouth, and he smacked his lips between words. "And that is why you are all jealous."
Thinking my plan had failed, I cried out in despair and flung myself to the floor.
But Cyric continued, "I must admit, however, that I am no more powerful than any of you." The One turned my heart over as though he would take another bite, then seemed to think better of it and thrust the juicy thing somewhere inside his hauberk. "That was a delusion of the Cyrinishad. A happy delusion-" here, the One glared down at me-"but a delusion nonetheless. We can all agree that I am better now."

Okay convinced, will chance then my mod a bit. Kido has to refer to Cyric in a bit different way. But then it is okay, he still is more or less the god I had in my mind

[NiGHTMARE]

Because after Time of Troubles, the amount of power a deity has in Realmspace is directly proportional to the number of worshippers they have in Realmspace; the number of worshippers they have elsewhere is irrelevant. No doubt the same is true for many other crystal spheres.

I'm sure that in the Abyss (Lloth's homeplane) she has a lot more power than she does in the Realms.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 22 June 2004 - 02:45 AM.

[Consis]

I Would Like To Point Out.....

It would seem to me that if a deity's power is directly connected the number of worshippers it has then I would further venture to say that some followers give it more strength than others.

For example, as you mentioned about Lolth in the Abyss, it would seem to me that some are simply going through the motions of worshipping her simply because they fear her. I wouldn't think this to be true belief.

I think this applies to both Good aligned Gods and Evil aligned Gods, however in a different fashion. Whereas Lolth probably has a great deal of worshippers out of fear, someone like Helm might have a great deal of worshippers who are simply procrastinators. Haha, it has just occurred to me that this seems related to a loyal "fan-base".

Just as mega-star-musicians will have a fanatical type fan that is willing to pay for all the paraphanalia, so too must a God have a fanatical worhsipper that will pray those extra prayers of worship and perform those particularly cultist rituals yes?

[Bane]

I think a fanatical worshipper who is more pro active than a less active fanatical worshipper is better, e.g. actions are more important than words/prayers in FR

[raptor]

Certain followers yes, they are called priests. practically any divine spellcaster. Finder Wyvernspur explained to Joel thata priest as a different type of worshipp altogether, that a deity could draw different sort of power from a priest. Cant really explain it, read "Finders Stone", Finder Wyvernspur explains it a bit there.

[Feanor]

But what happened with the elven gods during the Time of Troubles. I saw no mention of them. Have they been forced to walk Faerun as mortals too ?

[Cyric]

But what happened with the elven gods during the Time of Troubles. I saw no mention of them. Have they been forced to walk Faerun as mortals too ?

yes, they too:

http://www.geocities...tylocations.htm

[Feanor]

I had in mind the Seldarine : there is no mention of the Seldarine gods, like Corellon, Rillifane, Eillistrae. Aerdrie or the others.

[Cyric]

the majority of the Seldarine resided on Evermeet during the ToT

[NiGHTMARE]

I had in mind the Seldarine : there is no mention of the Seldarine gods, like Corellon, Rillifane, Eillistrae. Aerdrie or the others.

Obviously we only know the location of deities during the Time of Troubles if TSR/WotSC told us. Such information can be found in various novels (in particular the Avatar series), Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Patheons, Demihuman Deities, a few issues of the old Forgotten Realms comics, and that's about it.

So in the case of many deities, including most of the non-human ones, we don't know what they got up to. This even includes a couple of fairly major gods, such as Ilmater, Lathander and Tyr.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 30 June 2004 - 01:24 AM.