Seifer:
Keldorn takes pride in his role as an inquisitor and this fuels his passion as a paladin but draws strength from his marraige as a different entity entirely, as a MAN not a paladin.
Domi:
Erm... I do not think so. If he did, Maria would not be seeing him once in a few months. Men who draw their strength from a family just do not do that.
So overall I do not find your argument convincing enough
Seifer:
Just as you questioned how I see Keldorn, now I do so for you. You maybe looking at Keldorn through feminine eyes which is of course all that you can do but I also believe that you are looking at the right traits in the wrong manner. If you answer honestly, and again, no insult is meant in this, is there any argument that I can place forward that you would see as acceptable which doesn't result in my agreeing to how possible it is to romance him?
With all respect, Seifer, I have to say that what you told Domi here comes across as very patronizing. Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but what you have basically told her is that seeing Keldorn through feminine eyes makes it impossible to view his actions and intentions correctly, maybe even objectively. More than that, you are implying (indirectly or directly, as you will) that feminine eyes view Keldorn's lack of time at home as a fault because feminine eyes ... what? Are you trying to say that feminine eyes can only view issues through the abjectly maternal? Are you trying to say that women can't understand devotion to one's career?
With this comment you not only do disservice to women who are not so "domesticated," or who are more inclined to be logically minded. You also do disservice to those men who sacrifice aspects of their careers, or their careers altogether for the sake of spending time with their family. (Case in point, a stay-at-home Dad I know personally)
The real problem is that there are two polarized views of Keldorn in this thread, neither of which accurately reflects the whole picture.
Keldorn can be a strong, honorable paladin without being in love with his wife. Torm is not a god of love, he's a god of duty. The performance of duty doesn't necessarily have to have heart behind it. It's more meaningful when it does so, however there are times when duty is performed *in spite of* how you feel. Irl ppl who do that are admired for their strength character and self-discipline. I doubt that Faerum would view it another way, and it's entirely conceivable that Torm would honor that kind of self-sacrifice as well.
Was Keldorn a good husband? Well, probably not in our modern definition of the concept. That doesn't mean he's a bad or evil man, or a dishonorable priest of Torm. That just means that he & Maria have lost the ability & perhaps even the desire to communicate what the other needs. Maria could have been asking him to spend more time at home for years. Keldorn could have started staying at the Radiant Heart because he grew tired of his wife nagging him about his job & duties.
But let's face a salient fact, here. Keldorn was staying well within commuting distance from home. Just a short walk. He could have been residing at home & still been "on the spot" for whatever duties required him to be at the RH.
But here he was living in the adjacent district, and Maria hadn't seen him in two months before the time you & your party went with him to see his family the first time in game?
They couldn't even have sent someone with a note to find out what was up with the other? ... Please.
His children spend lesspellholdstudios.nets than two minutes in his company, and their reactions were not what you would expect toward a parent they had any bond or affection toward. They referred to their "uncle" with more affection than Keldorn.
In most circumstances, when a (minor) child loses affection for a parent, it's not the child's fault for having disconnected that bond. Would you say that's because Keldorn was too busy to have established that bond? Well, I have a brother in the military ... he was gong to both Bosnia & Kosovo as well as on various non-deployed training missions while stationed in Germany. He was often away from home, but his daughter managed to retain her active well ... in his case ... adoration of him. Recently, he has begun to lose that even though he's not been deployed on any training missions. Why? Because his daughter knows when Dad is away because he has to be & when Dad is away because he is unhappy. And they don't need to be told the difference.
Regarding Keldon's verbal affirmations of his affection for his family ... well, actions speak louder than words. I believe that he has convinced himself of what he tells others because he wants to believe it for himself. But sometimes ppl lie to themselves in order to get by, or get through.
Does this make Keldorn evil? Does this make Keldorn a bad knight?
No, I believe this is just proof of Seifer's point that he is a MAN ... that is, he's HUMAN. He has faults. His god favors him because he fulfills his duties, but no god expects their follows to be what they cannot -- that is, perfect.
I think Keldorn took the easy way out of dealing with this family problems, whatever they were, by residing a district away rather than have to figure out the complications happening at home.
But I also believe that he is an honorable paladin of Torm who believes in his god and who genuinely works very hard to uphold his duties and his assignments.
Where does a romance fit in that? *shrug*
I don't know. But Keldorn wouldn't be the only "good" man or woman whose family life (s/he assumes) is stable, but who is bored or in some way even mildly dissatisfied, to have been bowled over by an extraordinary new person in his/her life (as the PC, if nothing more than just coping with being Bhaalspawn would be). There?s a reason that the line ?my <insert gf/bf or husband/wife> doesn?t understand me? is a cliché, and Keldorn has more reason than most to rationalize to himself that the PC would understand him more than his wife.
*edited to make the above paragraph apply to both genders, coz it?s true either way*To remain a paladin, this relationship would never be able to be consummated physically. However, sometimes the most heartfelt loves are those you can never fully attain.
Such is the medieval concept of "chivalry" btw. The romantic love in a truly medieval romance was between a knight and & lady who could never sully the perfection of their feelings with physical expression. Either he would be married, or she would be married. Or there would be some other insurmountable obstacle in their way. But marriages between the genteel, or the noble, were invariably arranged, and therefore it was widely assumed that your love match would most likely not be who you were married to. Being a good spouse had nothing to do with that kind of romantic concept. Only the very poor had that kind of luxury ... if their parents allowed & hadn't made plans themselves.
Just a bit of trivia from an old English lit. major.
That's my 2 cents ... er, maybe a quarter by now, though.
Edited by Plasmocat, 13 July 2004 - 12:06 PM.
