146 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Do you intend to revise Pit Fiends too (I always felt they fall to easy for the most powerful of the devils...

[T.G.Maestro]

Here is one of my old replies, I guess to a similar question of Efreet:

Steel your heart, they will be refined as Balors - which means they'll get almost all of their powers. Expect some nasty times when you see these things in BG2...

[Schatten]

Come on, we couldn't really keep that pace forever

less sleep more work helps. and remember to cancel your rl job 'cause it takes a lot of time, too. :nana:

[Feanor]

At observation, TG, about what could be revised to fiends : if you cast protection from evil on your party, fiends ignore you, even if you attack them. That is not normal.

[the bigg]

This is what the engine does: PFE10'R makes you immune to demons. It's the same deal as Protection from Undead while bashing a lich.
Let's just repeat the Tactics trick; BTW, I happen to have a much better implementation of this, so that this doesn't trigger on cleric casting heal twenty screens away, like in tactics , but only on the lich being bashed / dispelled / spellcasted at. It would be dead easy (me hopes ) to port this to demons.

[T.G.Maestro]

Good news Bigg, we'll include it once we start that component.

[Feanor]

Bigg, my main objection is not that you are immune to fiends, so they can't hurt you. The problem is another one (and I speak about summoned fiends) : if you attack them, they have no reaction. They just stand with finger crossed and let you kill them, without even trying to strike back.

And, BTW, Bigg, if the engine makes you immune to demons with this spell, then we have a contradiction. The description of the spell says : "When this spell is cast, all creatures within a 10 foot radius are affected individually by Protection from Evil. It creates a magical barrier around the recipients at a distance of one foot. The barrier moves with the recipient and has two major effects: First, all attacks made by evil or evilly enchanted creatures against the protected creature receive a penalty of -2 to each attack roll, and second, any saving throws caused by such attacks are made by the protected creature with a +2 bonus." It does not specify anything about being totally immune to demons.

[T.G.Maestro]

This is a good point Feanor. I'm not sure if there is a way to help this however.

[hlidskialf]

The summoning spells make mention of it however. I believe this is the game's solution to the "Protective circles" we all know about for when a mage truely summons a being from a lower plane.
The Protection from Evil spells actually use a "Protection from creature type" targeting Summoned_Demon. Removing this effect would take away the "demon ignores you" component of the spell. If it was up to me, I'd do this for all version of the spell, then create a new spell for "Protection from Demons", etc... I'm doing something similar to this for my project as I need/am creating a plethora of "Protection from xxxxxx" spell scrolls. (*sniff* I love 1st edition.) Just a thought.

Edit: Another cool idea would be to create the protective circle spells for summoning hostile extraplanar beings, and set a zero movement modifier on the caster. (To represent the actual circle.) Or better yet, a invis/invul cre, with a vvc on it to show the circle. The cre would have a script on it to remove the "Protection" factor if the caster/party moved out of a specified range. If you're going to make demons tougher, best to make them harder to control IMO.

[T.G.Maestro]

Very nice ideas Hlid, we'll definitely discuss them once we get to that point.

[Stone Wolf]

The Protection from Evil spells actually use a "Protection from creature type" targeting Summoned_Demon. Removing this effect would take away the "demon ignores you" component of the spell. If it was up to me, I'd do this for all version of the spell, then create a new spell for "Protection from Demons", etc... I'm doing something similar to this for my project as I need/am creating a plethora of "Protection from xxxxxx" spell scrolls. (*sniff* I love 1st edition.) Just a thought.

Edit: Another cool idea would be to create the protective circle spells for summoning hostile extraplanar beings, and set a zero movement modifier on the caster. (To represent the actual circle.) Or better yet, a invis/invul cre, with a vvc on it to show the circle. The cre would have a script on it to remove the "Protection" factor if the caster/party moved out of a specified range. If you're going to make demons tougher, best to make them harder to control IMO.

Well, it only protects against summoned demons, not Gated demons, which is what their innate ability summons. If a demon sees someone with that protection up, it could just gate in a buddy and watch the new demon rip the caster into tiny bits. I love that distinction.

The game makes a point of distinguishing summoned and gated creatures for just this reason. It makes the spells that kill summoned creatures useless against most demons (well, a lot are immune to death effects anyways iirc.)

[Stone Wolf]

Okay, just a few questions since something much like this is part of my mod plan, and I love avoiding work.

1) From what I've read, you're doing Tanar-ri and Baatezu, right? What about Yugoloths? Do you have a full list of the creatures you're adapting? Many Tanar-ri and Baatezu aren't in the game and have no suitable animations, so I'm wondering which you're doing.

2) Are you using 2E or 3E rules? I was planning on using 2E with maybe a few 3E tweaks if I thought appropriate.

3) Since I mentioned it--animations. What are you doing about the lack of appropriate fiend animations in the game? I have Poser and 3DSMax, and I'm trying to learn how to make animations for my mod. I'm nowhere near ready, though the small size of the images will make it much easier to do.

4) What's the status on your project?

That's all for now.

[the bigg]

The Protection from Evil spells actually use a "Protection from creature type" targeting Summoned_Demon. Removing this effect would take away the "demon ignores you" component of the spell. If it was up to me, I'd do this for all version of the spell, then create a new spell for "Protection from Demons", etc... I'm doing something similar to this for my project as I need/am creating a plethora of "Protection from xxxxxx" spell scrolls. (*sniff* I love 1st edition.) Just a thought.

Edit: Another cool idea would be to create the protective circle spells for summoning hostile extraplanar beings, and set a zero movement modifier on the caster. (To represent the actual circle.) Or better yet, a invis/invul cre, with a vvc on it to show the circle. The cre would have a script on it to remove the "Protection" factor if the caster/party moved out of a specified range. If you're going to make demons tougher, best to make them harder to control IMO. 

Well, it only protects against summoned demons, not Gated demons, which is what their innate ability summons. If a demon sees someone with that protection up, it could just gate in a buddy and watch the new demon rip the caster into tiny bits. I love that distinction.

The game makes a point of distinguishing summoned and gated creatures for just this reason. It makes the spells that kill summoned creatures useless against most demons (well, a lot are immune to death effects anyways iirc.)

Actually, Death Spell uses an effect of "destroy", not of "kill" or "slay". This way, it can also kill the genie of the Wish Spell, or other minhp1 summoned creatures (that is what I solve with Unlimited Wish in tB#Pack).

[T.G.Maestro]

1) From what I've read, you're doing Tanar-ri and Baatezu, right? What about Yugoloths? Do you have a full list of the creatures you're adapting?

Yes, I have many sources atm.
To answer the other question, I don't think we will add new animations (mostly because I completely lack the skills to do that ).

2) Are you using 2E or 3E rules? I was planning on using 2E with maybe a few 3E tweaks if I thought appropriate.

Thats exactly what we are going to do - and its the most suitable option in the BG2 world.

3) Since I mentioned it--animations. What are you doing about the lack of appropriate fiend animations in the game? I have Poser and 3DSMax, and I'm trying to learn how to make animations for my mod. I'm nowhere near ready, though the small size of the images will make it much easier to do.

All forms of help and assistance are welcome. If you can help with this part, we'll dicuss it laer, once we come near implementing these modifications.

4) What's the status on your project?

Currently in the planning stage. First we'll take care of the Five Revisions, and most likely it will be followed by the Dragon Revisions component. After these we'll start the work on Fiends.

something much like this is part of my mod plan, and I love avoiding work

As I said above, we always welcome assistance.

[Stone Wolf]

Well, in PnP the Death Spell specifically states that it won't work on creatures not native to the Prime Material Plane.

[T.G.Maestro]

Another question is that if BG2 follows this rule, or not?

[Stone Wolf]

Hmm, are there any demons with fewer than 9 HD in the game? I can't think of any. No, wait! Mephits! They all have fewer than 9HD, and I think they're vulnerable to Death Spell. I have tried it since it's a waste of a spell. Of course, they could be summoned, so they'd die anyways.

[Feanor]

1) From what I've read, you're doing Tanar-ri and Baatezu, right? What about Yugoloths? Do you have a full list of the creatures you're adapting? Many Tanar-ri and Baatezu aren't in the game and have no suitable animations, so I'm wondering which you're doing.

Khmm, there are any yugoloths in BG2 ?

[Stone Wolf]

Not yet.