202 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

A question about the whole Five Revisions:

Which one would be better:
- to have the component as a whole, which would result in a single install - this way you could have all the Five ancounters revised or none of them;
- or have separate installs (as seen by the original Ascension mod's separate Five installs), so one could decide wether he wants Yaga-Shura improved to "Refinements-level" or stay by a Balthazar + Illasera install only?

[the bigg]

To me, letting the player choose is always the best option there is. that's why WeiDU has the components, methinks

[T.G.Maestro]

Good. Other opinions? (just to hear the community before we decide)

[Feanor]

Good. Other opinions? (just to hear the community before we decide)

Optional. It could be considered too difficult by some players.

[T.G.Maestro]

OK, another vote. I'm waiting for others too.
Just for the record, I also vote for the optional version.

[Stone Wolf]

I'd say optional too. Maybe a check at the beginning to see if they want to install everything or do it one-by-one.

[T.G.Maestro]

O-K. I think these votes are enough - I don't think the remaining majority of players would say otherwise. And this would save those with weaker systems too: they could skip the Refinements Yaga-Shura while still enjoying the modified Illasera or Balthazar encounters.

[hlidskialf]

It's always best to give players the option. They love the options and don't care what extra coding it requires.

[the bigg]

It's always best to give players the option. They love the options and don't care what extra coding it requires.

I didn't you were so lazy as to saying "don't care how much work it requires" when you have to write BEGIN @xxxx one more time

[hlidskialf]

It's always best to give players the option. They love the options and don't care what extra coding it requires. 

I didn't you were so lazy as to saying "don't care how much work it requires" when you have to write BEGIN @xxxx one more time

If only it was ALWAYS that easy. :help:

[Stone Wolf]

I don't think it would happen in this mod, but components could easily overlap requiring multiple versions of various files for different component combinations.

[T.G.Maestro]

Here is an attempt for a description for Illasera's droppable bow. I'd once again ask for proofreading and some help in finding the better words/sentences where needed (since english is not my first language, I'm not that good with such things..).
Thanks in advance!

Illasera's Black Bow (CURSED)

This strange long bow was created by Illasera the Quick and her Black Reaver comrade Teas. In a dark ritual led by the mage she sacrificed a small fraction of her tainted soul, imbuing the bow made of pure Blackwood with her corrupted essence. This resulted in an unshakeable mental link between Illasera and her bow, increasing it's powers dramatically. From that moment they were one, the Black Bow became part of her, just as she became part of it. Her Bhaalpowers were directly channeled by the weapon. This had two effects on Illasera: while held by her, the bow was extremely dangerous and made her possibly the best archer on Faerun. On the other hand, the downside of this dark sacrifice was that if she became separated from the Black Bow, she suffered greatly and if the weapon would have ever been destroyed, her soul would be shattered to pieces as well.
Even after her death by the hands of <CHARNAME>, the bow retains much of its former power, making it a deadly weapon in combat. Illasera's broken soul may or may not be entrapped in the black shaft, but one thing is for sure: the Black Bow and bestows a bad karma on any creature trying to use it and taps to the life force of it's wielder.

Equipped Effects:
-3 to Constitution
-3 to Charisma
-2 to Luck

Special:
+4 to THAC0
+3 to Damage
+1D12 points of piercing damage on hit (save vs. death at -2)
Every hit has a 20% chance to Dispel Effects, reduce Magic Resistance by 5% and to result in a 33% Spell Failure on the target creature for 3 rounds (no save).

STATISTICS:
Weight: 2
Speed Factor: 4
Proficiency Type: Long Bow
Type: 2-handed
Requires: 3 STR, 16 DEX
Not Useable By:
Druid
Cleric
Mage
Thief
Bard
Good Aligned Characters

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 26 September 2004 - 06:09 AM.

[Schatten]

It's always best to give players the option. They love the options and don't care what extra coding it requires.

i vote for an option to install all or none and an option to install some of the components.

[Feanor]

TG, why this bow requires only 3 STR ? I'm definetely against this, it would mean it can be used by kids. Such a powerful bow would definetely require AT LEAST 10 STR.

[T.G.Maestro]

TG, why this bow requires only 3 STR ? I'm definetely against this, it would mean it can be used by kids. Such a powerful bow would definetely require AT LEAST 10 STR.

First, it is a very special bow. And remember, i is only a long bow, not a composite long bow.
Still, if others think the same way as you, I might as well increase the STR requirement.

[T.G.Maestro]

IMPORTANT NOTICE


I'd like to notify everyone waiting for the "Five Revisions" component, that work on it had to be stopped for a while, since we lost our scripter (The_Bigg) temporarily - we hope he can get back to modding and we can continue these parts of Refinements too.

Until then -and unless someone with proper scripting skills decided to help us- I'm asking for your patience and support in other components.

TG

[the bigg]

Since it's becoming possible that we'll re-try to work on the Five revision, I'm posting this thread with a selection of posts from the older one. TGM and Littiz: if possible, any new ideas should be added to this post for easiness of navigation.

This is a selection of some original posts:

After a few discussions between the authors, it gets more and more likely that v2 of Refinements will include the first parts of the "Creature Revisions" component. This will be a massive modification component once it will be finished, and will affect many creature types in SoA and ToB, including boss battles. The first part will handle the ToB "Five" encounters - here are the raw details:

a., Illasera & Co.:
- Illasera should get our Precision HLA.
- she should get our Endurance HLA.
- she shouldn't be able to cast clerical spells because of her fallen status, so I'd advise to remove her Cure Critical Wounds spells and grant her 2 additional Potions of Superior Healing.
- she shouldn't be immune to almost everything, I mean Uncounsciousness for example.
- we could reduce her HPs (225) to 180 and boost her with regeneration or life-stealing attacks to compensate.
- her arrows shouldn't dispel summons.
- we should slightly revise the levels and stats of the Black Reavers, there are more than a few inconsistencies there. I'd suggest balancing them a bit - the cleric's hit points should be reduced from the current (crazy) value, while the ogre could have a boost. That ogre would benefit from a class/kit change, I think we could turn him into a Berserker (he is vanilla fighter). At least 1 or 2 of the Reavers should reach the HLA level in experience. I'd grant the teleporting fighter 1 Whirlwind attack.
- the Reavers should arrive to the Glare prepared for combat. The cleric and the mage should have a few basic protections (Stoneskin, Death Ward, etc.).
- the melee Reavers (the dual-wielding human and the ogre) should use potions at the start and in the middle of the battle if needed. Currently they only use a few healing potions, they should have at least 1 other potion too.

b., Balthazar:
- his stats would be revised somewhat according to my changes on his .cre.
- he should get a few items to wear: a lesser robe, a girdle, a ring and an amulet. None of these would be special items, simply classical magical items like amulet of Protection +1.
- he should be immune to slow, as he should be.
- he should get special +4 fists with a few minor offensive bonuses.
- his script should be heavily modified. He should use his current abilities much more precise and more often. He should get a few HLAs from our new monk table too: Inner Time and Evasions.
- he should always use Faster Than the Eye to escape dangerous situations
- his pupils should receive some of his special powers (one for each). One of them should get Shadowless Kick, one should get Tiger Strike, while the others would get either Faster Than the Eye or Chant.
- he should have additional supporters in the combat: a HLA level (19th level) battle mage should appear in the combat too. And here would come the greatest change from the original encounter. He has an army of mercenaries waiting for his command, right? Now, honourable or not, I don't think he wouldn't use them against the Bhaalspawn in the time of such peril. After a specified time these mercenaries would start to enter the room and join the fight answering his call. There would be ranged and melee versions too (using the .cres of the soldiers in Amkethran). The ranged mercenaries would always attack from the sides, while the melee fighters would attack the party. A new mercenary or monk would appear every round. We could even add another mage and a liutenant to the mix. These opponents would appear as long as B lives - once he is dead, they'd flee and escape Amkethran.

c., Yaga-Shura:
- he should benefit from his weapon's bonuses.
- he should use potions after he returns.
- he should use Power Attack, Critical Strike and Smite.
- again, his special abilities should be used a bit more often and more precise.
- the spawning rate of his army should be significantly increased once he returns. Every round a normal "cannon fodder" should appear (using the original selection of warriors, mages and Fire Giants) and eery 2nd round an additional opponent should appear (a tougher warrior 45%, a Fire Giant 35%, or even an Elite F. Giant 20%). I always found it ridiculous that his "army" stands of less than 50 creatures, and his "reinforcements" means 4 average liutenants with completely no soldiers at their disposal...
- we should decrease the charges of the summoning wands used by the mages, or make them use it more often. The party can get crazy amount of extra summons by looting the corpses after the battle. The same goes for potions.

d., Sendai:
- Kish did a nice work here, I don't feel we need to change anything.

e., Abazigal:
- Abazigal should use our kensai HLA table in his human form. He should definitely use True Kai and offensive powers like Smite and Power Attack. He should only use Critical Strike against opponents WITHOUT helmets. We should remove his Hardiness abilities, since Refinements Kensai no longer get it.
- he should ignore "invincible" summons like Mordy Swords, or should use Greater Deathblow to remove them.
- he really shouldn't cast Imprisonments in Dragon Form.
- we should revise Tamah. Amethyst Dragons are heavy psionic users, so we should grant her many of the Mind Flayer powers including Psionic Blast, Detonate, Ballistic Attack, Psionic Domination, Invisibility. Also, her breath weapon should be made more fitting to the pnp counterpart. We should modifiy ALL dragons in the game (I'll detail this in another post later) to have their pnp abilities and unique characteristics.
- I'm not sure about the young Drakes used by Wes, I never really liked them. They are too powerful for a young dragon, and their "multicolor" nature keeps bothering me as well... if we would be able to add the Half-Dragon creature bams to the game (from IWD2), we could really replace them with these creatures.
- The Frost Salamanders are also a "bit" strange in a desert cave...:-O

So much for now. These changes would serve as nice and fitting improvements and corrections to these bosses, and would be a great start for the Creature Revisions component in v2. Of course we need to ask the authors of Ascension for permission to alter these battles.

Opinions, ideas?

As requested before here a few ideas on the Refinements modifications of the (improved) Gromnir encounter:

- Gromnir is a 20th level Barbarian, yet he wears a Full Plate. We should either turn him into a berserker, or remove/change his Full Plate +2. I'd vote for turning him into a Berserker, it is more fitting to his general status than a barbarian class. This means we have to change his Barbarian Rages to the berserker Enrage ability, and will have to modify his stats somewhat too.
- He should use some of the following HLAs from the Refinements table: Hardiness, Whirlwind, Greater Whirlwind, Resist Magic, War Cry, Greater War Cry.
- He should have a few potions in his inventory aside healing potions: a potion of Cloud Giant Strength and a Potion of Invulnerability.
- Karun the Black should be an 18th level Illusionist. Time to use that Mirrored Clones HLA, right?
- We should discuss weather or not increase Eler Had's experience to HLa level. Currently he is 15th level, but we could easily turn him into a HLA level Assassin with Nerve Poison or Cripple.
- the same thing goes for Berena Elkan. She is below the HLA level of fighters (15th level fighter). She has her own share of special Bhaal-powers using her spear though.

That is all that comes in mind at first blink. This is a relatively low-level battle compared to the Five encounters, so there are less opportunities to enhance the battle with Refinements powers here.

Any suggestions are welcome though.

An alignment change would not be appropriate for the curse effects of the bow ?

Alignment can be changed easily with Virtue installed, and I don't see it as necessary. As I said before, I'll try to explain the negative effects in the weapon's description.

Anyway, here are the current effects of the 2 bows, there are some changes:

1.: Illasera's Black Bow (used by her):
Weapon type: Long Bow
Damage: +9, + 2D10 piercing (save vs. death at -6)
THAC0: +9
Enchantment level: +4 (it shouldn't hit through Absolute Immunity)
Attacks/round: 4
-5% MR for 30 seconds (no save);
automatic dispel on hit (no save);
Spell Failure of 33% for 3 rounds (no save);
slow on hit for 9 sec (save vs. poly at -4)
stun on hit for 6 sec (save vs. poly)
Wing Buffet for a reduced distance (save vs. death at -4)

2.: Illasera's Black Bow (useable by the party after her death) *CURSED*
Weapon type: long bow
Damage: +5, +1D12 piercing (save vs. death at -2)
THAC0: +5
Attacks/round bonus: +1
-5% MR for 30 seconds (20%), no save;
Dispel on hit (20%), no save;
Spell Failure of 33% for 2 rounds (20%), no save;
Reduces CON and CHA by 3
Reduces Luck by 2
Requires: 16 DEX

Here is an attempt for a description for Illasera's droppable bow. I'd once again ask for proofreading and some help in finding the better words/sentences where needed (since english is not my first language, I'm not that good with such things..).
Thanks in advance!

Illasera's Black Bow (CURSED)

This strange long bow was created by Illasera the Quick and her Black Reaver comrade Teas. In a dark ritual led by the mage she sacrificed a small fraction of her tainted soul, imbuing the bow made of pure Blackwood with her corrupted essence. This resulted in an unshakeable mental link between Illasera and her bow, increasing it's powers dramatically. From that moment they were one, the Black Bow became part of her, just as she became part of it. Her Bhaalpowers were directly channeled by the weapon. This had two effects on Illasera: while held by her, the bow was extremely dangerous and made her possibly the best archer on Faerun. On the other hand, the downside of this dark sacrifice was that if she became separated from the Black Bow, she suffered greatly and if the weapon would have ever been destroyed, her soul would be shattered to pieces as well.
Even after her death by the hands of <CHARNAME>, the bow retains much of its former power, making it a deadly weapon in combat. Illasera's broken soul may or may not be entrapped in the black shaft, but one thing is for sure: the Black Bow and bestows a bad karma on any creature trying to use it and taps to the life force of it's wielder.

Equipped Effects:
-3 to Constitution
-3 to Charisma
-2 to Luck

Special:
+4 to THAC0
+3 to Damage
+1D12 points of piercing damage on hit (save vs. death at -2)
Every hit has a 20% chance to Dispel Effects, reduce Magic Resistance by 5% and to result in a 33% Spell Failure on the target creature for 3 rounds (no save).

STATISTICS:
Weight: 2
Speed Factor: 4
Proficiency Type: Long Bow
Type: 2-handed
Requires: 3 STR, 16 DEX
Not Useable By:
Druid
Cleric
Mage
Thief
Bard
Good Aligned Characters

The original thread may be found here: ; however, it'd be preferable if we starting posting in a clear thread.

Anybody is very welcomed to post any suggestion he may have and we will keep your suggestions in highest value.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 30 May 2005 - 06:38 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

It was a good idea to start a new thread for this.
I'll browse my PC to see what I've managed to implement back then for all these modifications.

[Littiz]

As I said via mail, this component is really necessary - the mod seems uncomplete without it.
Of course, we don't have as much time as in the past, but I hope we can pump this out. The Armor Revision component is almost sure, too - and it'll raise the gaming experience quite a bit.
(then TGM will want to get to that evil kit of his I hope he'll decide to delay it after these components, despite my past promises )

As for on topic comments: generally the ideas are more than fine. On a quick sight, I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of augmenting the size of Yaga Shura's army. There's already too many people in there, imho... I know it doesn't seem exactly like an army, but it's BG2, not Total War or something

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 30 May 2005 - 06:41 AM.

[the bigg]

As I said via mail, this component is really necessary - the mod seems uncomplete without it.
Of course, we don't have as much time as in the past, but I hope we can pump this out. The Armor Revision component is almost sure, too - and it'll raise the gaming experience quite a bit.
(then TGM will want to get to that evil kit of his I hope he'll decide to delay it after these components, despite my past promises )

Kits... bah, working on unusability tweaks, how cliche'.

As for on topic comments: generally the ideas are more than fine. On a quick sight, I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of augmenting the size of Yaga Shura's army. There's already too many people in there, imho... I know it doesn't seem exactly like an army, but it's BG2, not Total War or something

Large Scale Battles are fun, unless you have a slow computer. And that's why there are components in WeiDU.


Note: I've been awake for around thirty consecutive hours and slept thirty hours in the last week - of which 15 consecutive. Insomnia is such a bad thing.

Edited by the bigg, 28 May 2005 - 01:14 AM.