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The Revision of the Five


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#181 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 10:53 PM

then TGM will want to get to that evil kit of his  I hope he'll decide to delay it after these components, despite my past promises

Heh, you can bet I was wondering weather or not you remembered that promise...! :lol:

The Armor Revision component is almost sure, too - and it'll raise the gaming experience quite a bit.

Right after I send the details to both of you in mail, I'll upload the plans here as well - in a new thread of course.

Large Scale Battles are fun, unless you have a slow computer. And that's why there are components in WeiDU.

My words exactly, though I admit that we should try to maintain useability for non-NASA computers too. :P

Note: I've been awake for around thirty consecutive hours and slept thirty hours in the last week - of which 15 consecutive. Insomnia is such a bad thing.

Yet it is so much useful when it comes to modding...! :rolleyes:
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#182 the bigg

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 11:05 PM


then TGM will want to get to that evil kit of his  I hope he'll decide to delay it after these components, despite my past promises


Heh, you can bet I was wondering weather or not you remembered that promise...! laugh.gif

He \(will\|will ask me to\) bring up all 20 possibilities in the todo, and will add without notice other 2000, before doing the kit!

Note: last sentence is to be evaluated in WeiDU regexp.

Note: I've been awake for around thirty consecutive hours and slept thirty hours in the last week - of which 15 consecutive. Insomnia is such a bad thing.

Yet it is so much useful when it comes to modding...! :rolleyes:

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It is not useful to your real life when you start wandering your college wielding a knife with a mad look in your eyes :devil:

Oh sorry, we don't have real life <_<

note: I have yet to wander my college with a knife in my hand, but it would be sooo cool

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

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#183 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 06:37 AM

Now, let us keep on topic.

Here are a few additional ideas for the revision of the Five. These aren't really technical changes like most of the ideas listed above, they are meant to make these battles at least a bit more interesting. Note that some of them might have been listed above, I just cannot remember everything..! :)


1.: Illasera & the Black Reavers

- as discussed before (and mentioned in the quotes above), Illasera's unique bow will be changed, and will become equipable after you defeat her. You can read the description and stats of the bow itself above.
- you will meet with two of the Black Reavers in the Forests of Tethyr in the SoA part of the game, in the area where you can access Suldanesselar from. This meeting will happen at the point where you try to return to the elvel city with the Rhynn Lanthorn. They will recognize you (since they are already looking for you in that area) and have comments and maybe a few hints on the things to come, but nothing more than that - they'll teleport away without any combat.
- I plan to modify the non-improved version of the Illasera battle, where you fight her as a moronic mid-level mage. While this highly nerfed alteration was still necessary to make this encounter beatable by solo characters (starting in ToB), it was far too easy - and had nothing to do with the "Fallen-Ranger" concept. I think her nerfed solo-version should be changed to the Archer version as well, and should receive some of the abilities of the improved version (like Ethereal and her Black Bow). The most significant change from the improved counterpart of this encounter is that only 1 or two Black Reavers would appear (likely the dual-wielding warrior and the mage), the Orog and the half-eleven cleric would be dropped. Also, the stats and AI of these opponents (including Illasera) would be slightly reduced as well, to make this battle beatable. All the other changes we listed in the posts above would be included into thsi version as well though.


2.: Yaga-Shura

- instead of the greatly increases spawning rate of enemy troops, we should add a Fire Giant cleric to Yaga-Shura's party when he returns to join the combat. This opponent should mainly concentrate on summoning Fire Elementals, using the spells like the high-level Elemental Summoning (this modified version would always summon 2 Greater Fire Elementals) and all the lesser forms of it. This doesn't mean that the original spawning rate of his army won't be slightly increased, but not that much as it was intended first.


3.: Abazigal

- if we can somehow use the required resources, we could change the 4 lesser Wyrms in that battle to Half-Dragons. This naturally means that we should use the Bestial Animations mod as a prerequisite.


4.: Balthazar

- there would be a third option when you meet him in his sanctuary at the end. Instead of attacking him with your party or persuading him to join you at the Throne of Blood, you could have the option to fight him one-on-one with your main character (PC). He is an honorable fighter, and has nothing against your companions - it would offer most interesting tactical and roleplaying options to fight him in a duel. If the PC would choose this option, the other party members would be turned to non-controllable (like in the dream sequance for example) and couldn't affect the battle in any ways. Of course, the same would apply to Balthazar's personal apprentices as well. All these characters would be removed from the area until the battle's duration. Balthazar would initiate a banter when first beaten to Near Death (before he would use his Second Wind HLA), and the PC would have a last opportunity to persuade him into joining forces against Amelissan. Of course, evil players wouldn't be able to accomplish this. After this conversation, the battle would either end (as if he would have agreed to help you from the start), or he would activate his Second Wind, and this time the battle would only end when one of you dies.



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#184 the bigg

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:02 AM

1.: Illasera & the Black Reavers

- as discussed before (and mentioned in the quotes above), Illasera's unique bow will be changed, and will become equipable after you defeat her. You can read the description and stats of the bow itself above.
- you will meet with two of the Black Reavers in the Forests of Tethyr in the SoA part of the game, in the area where you can access Suldanesselar from. This meeting will happen at the point where you try to return to the elvel city with the Rhynn Lanthorn. They will recognize you (since they are already looking for you in that area) and have comments and maybe a few hints on the things to come, but nothing more than that - they'll teleport away without any combat.

I so love tiny touches... :) Nice :D

- I plan to modify the non-improved version of the Illasera battle, where you fight her as a moronic mid-level mage. While this highly nerfed alteration was still necessary to make this encounter beatable by solo characters (starting in ToB), it was far too easy - and had nothing to do with the "Fallen-Ranger" concept. I think her nerfed solo-version should be changed to the Archer version as well, and should receive some of the abilities of the improved version (like Ethereal and her Black Bow). The most significant change from the improved counterpart of this encounter is that only 1 or two Black Reavers would appear (likely the dual-wielding warrior and the mage), the Orog and the half-eleven cleric would be dropped. Also, the stats and AI of these opponents (including Illasera) would be slightly reduced as well, to make this battle beatable. All the other changes we listed in the posts above would be included into thsi version as well though.

You mean fighting a non-improved version if you started a ToB-only game? I doubt anybody would ever do that, but hey! :P


2.: Yaga-Shura

- instead of the greatly increases spawning rate of enemy troops, we should add a Fire Giant cleric to Yaga-Shura's party when he returns to join the combat. This opponent should mainly concentrate on summoning Fire Elementals, using the spells like the high-level Elemental Summoning (this modified version would always summon 2 Greater Fire Elementals) and all the lesser forms of it. This doesn't mean that the original spawning rate of his army won't be slightly increased, but not that much as it was intended first.

Nice :)


3.: Abazigal

- if we can somehow use the required resources, we could change the 4 lesser Wyrms in that battle to Half-Dragons. This naturally means that we should use the Bestial Animations mod as a prerequisite.

Err... forcing all those 300 Mb of stuff isn't so nice both to the HD, the performance (for the bloated override) and the dial-up users, you know...
We should do also a cutoff solution for those who don't wish to use BA... Say, leave them with less-appropriate animations...


4.: Balthazar

- there would be a third option when you meet him in his sanctuary at the end. Instead of attacking him with your party or persuading him to join you at the Throne of Blood, you could have the option to fight him one-on-one with your main character (PC). He is an honorable fighter, and has nothing against your companions - it would offer most interesting tactical and roleplaying options to fight him in a duel. If the PC would choose this option, the other party members would be turned to non-controllable (like in the dream sequance for example) and couldn't affect the battle in any ways. Of course, the same would apply to Balthazar's personal apprentices as well. All these characters would be removed from the area until the battle's duration. Balthazar would initiate a banter when first beaten to Near Death (before he would use his Second Wind HLA), and the PC would have a last opportunity to persuade him into joining forces against Amelissan. Of course, evil players wouldn't be able to accomplish this. After this conversation, the battle would either end (as if he would have agreed to help you from the start), or he would activate his Second Wind, and this time the battle would only end when one of you dies.

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:blink: Awesome, but... who is gonna write the dialogue for that? :unsure:
Also, keep in mind that what you are asking for (interjecting inside a dialogue introduced by a mod) is something very difficult, since you don't know which state/response is the one you're interested in, as that is installation-dependant...

OK, \(I\|Littiz\)'ll study by heart all the mods with Ascension dialogue and try to figure out something :o

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
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Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#185 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:36 AM

Err... forcing all those 300 Mb of stuff isn't so nice both to the HD, the performance (for the bloated override) and the dial-up users, you know...

You're right, lets forget it then.

Awesome, but... who is gonna write the dialogue for that?

We don't need THAT many dialogues, and there are plenty of talented writers here at FW... also, we can do the basics ourselves easily. ;)

Also, keep in mind that what you are asking for (interjecting inside a dialogue introduced by a mod) is something very difficult, since you don't know which state/response is the one you're interested in, as that is installation-dependant...

Yep, that would be the harder part of it. :closedeyes:
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#186 the bigg

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:38 AM

Err... forcing all those 300 Mb of stuff isn't so nice both to the HD, the performance (for the bloated override) and the dial-up users, you know...

You're right, lets forget it then.

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Well, it's possible to make it so that people with BA will get the Half-Dragon animations, while people without BA would get, say, a standard fighter or a lizard-man...

Edited by the bigg, 30 May 2005 - 07:44 AM.

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Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

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#187 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:41 AM

Truth to be told, my main problem with those Wyrms (Small Dragons???) is that they are completely cheating, and mostly non-pnp creatures. Replacing them with Half-Dragons (humanoid Dragons) would solve this problem from the start, since we could assign powers for them much more easily and correctly. Also, since Abazigal is a halfbreed himself, it would make sense to have a few others like him around.
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#188 the bigg

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:45 AM

Oh, and regarding the dialogues:
Balthazar is not your usual goblin, people will expect some thousand words of dialogue, and of the highest quality, for him. Not a feat that I, at least, can pull out (if you played the earliest versions of MtP you'd know what I mean). Also, finding good writers is maybe harder than finding good coders - you can teach yourself how to code half-decently, certainly you can't teach you writing, and the best way of finding a good _INSERT-SPECIALIZATION-HERE_ is to teach yourself <_<

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
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Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

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#189 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:54 AM

I am a capable writer, and would gladly do this part. The only problem is that my english is still far from perfect, so we definitely need someone who can translate/correct the lines I write.
Another option of course is to ask someone to write these for us. I'm positive we could find someone to help out.
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#190 the bigg

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:59 AM

I am a capable writer, and would gladly do this part. The only problem is that my english is still far from perfect, so we definitely need someone who can translate/correct the lines I write.
Another option of course is to ask someone to write these for us. I'm positive we could find someone to help out.

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OK, let's just wait for Littiz's enthusiasm on new thousand-words dialogues :D :D :lol:

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

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#191 Littiz

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:08 AM

Heh, you can bet I was wondering weather or not you remembered that promise...!

I remember everything, but when you have to sacrifice many of your own things because of lack of time :(
We'll get to it anyway, it shouldn't be that long to do, with some careful choices...


OK, let's just wait for Littiz's enthusiasm on new thousand-words dialogues

Uhm, well, ehehe, sure... :huh:
A new massive dialogue to code, yum!
It will be done -uhm- fast!
*Redirects all future Balthazar's material to the RtW "undone dialogues" folder*
:whistling:
:D

Ever forward, my darling wind...


#192 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:26 AM

We'll get to it anyway, it shouldn't be that long to do, with some careful choices...

Actually, the Paladin kit part won't be that easy (if doable at all) because of the Fallen status...
either way, let us get back to topic. :)
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#193 Littiz

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:24 PM

Never really thought to code it as a pally: with the fighter template you can do anything, even coding your own "redeemed" status :P

On topic: I'd start with the scripts and then see if we're able to do something more complicated than that. ;)

Ever forward, my darling wind...


#194 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 11:34 PM

Yep, we will return to this topic once we manage to get Armor Revisions up and running. ;)
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#195 Talib

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 05:57 PM

Kind of a knit picky thing.....but it seems kind of funny to me that Yaga Shura has most of his damage resistence when you face him again in the final fight. Since he was revived on the spot I doubt he would have had the time to remove his still beating heart from his chest and set it on fire. :huh: (Gaider stated that with Improved Yaga Shura his phenomenal damage resistance was the result of his invulnerability wearing off slowly.) This would probably make him weaker, but he would make a lot more sense imho.

Edited by Talib, 05 June 2005 - 06:00 PM.


#196 fallen_demon

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 08:41 PM

I don't see why Amellysan couldn't have restored him with the damage resistance. He also had free will when he was alive, she changed things. Or maybe the process of wearing off just resumed at ressurection it would have continued should the Yaga Sura avatar have survived longer.

And who said his new form had a heart?
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#197 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 10:34 PM

Truth to be told, the way that Yaga-Shura slowly loses his resistances in the final battle bothers me as well. I don't really see how this could be solved though. :unsure:
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#198 the bigg

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 11:17 PM

Hmm, weren't we concentrating on the "normal" fights instead of the Asc ones? :whistling:

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#199 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 11:28 PM

Hmm, weren't we concentrating on the "normal" fights instead of the Asc ones?

No, definitely the Ascension ones. The normal versions are all miserably nerfed.
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#200 the bigg

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 11:33 PM

No, I meant the ones you fight in chapter 8-9, not the one at the big ending with Mellie.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

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Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.