278 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Thanks very much for all the help Feanor, I will try harder now to aquire the information I need (I wonder if D&D will ever have a campaign of the final battle )

Off-topic : what final battle ?

And try this link, Felstorm :

List of gods

It's also for www.toril.info, but it takes you straight to the target. There is the place where I took the shorter description of Torm.

[Bane]

Pretty Good, it has quite good info, but does anyone know where Tyr came from it says he is an interloper deity.

[Feanor]

I have some questions about Waukeen. She was destroyed during the Time of Troubles in 1358 DR. Her portofolio was taken by Liira, who was slained by Cyric in 1368. But the same chronology says that Waukeen was imprisoned by the abyssal lord Graz'zt and released in 1370 DR. So :

1. What really happened with Waukken ?
2. Who was the god of trade between 1368 and 1370 (the period since Liira's death to Waukeen's release) ?
3. In BG series, there are some temples of Waukeen, although BG is set during 1368-1369 when Waukeen was "out". But, if a deity was slained, their followers did not turn to another one (usually the one who had taken their portofolio) ?

[Bane]

Her portfolio was taken by Liira while Cyric slew LEIRA (two different Godesses )

[NiGHTMARE]

Tyr came from another Prime Material world, but I don't think we've ever been told it's name.

Waukeen wasn't destroyed during the Time of Troubles, she gave her portfolio and much of her divine essence to her friend Llira and thus managed to escape to the planes. There she tried to strike a deal with Graz'zt, but trusting a creature of immense evil isn't exactly a good idea (obviously Waukeen lost most of her sanity as well as her powers ). He quickly betrayed and imprisoned her.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 12 August 2004 - 07:56 AM.

[Zandilar]

Tyr came from another Prime Material world, but I don't think we've ever been told it's name.

Tyr is the same god as Tyr from the Norse pantheon. So he's yet another Earth Based Interloper.

However, it might be worth it to note that the Norse Tyr was the god of Law. The Norse god of Justice was Forseti...

Waukeen wasn't destroyed during the Time of Troubles, she gave her portfolio and much of her divine essence to her friend Llira and thus managed to escape to the planes.  There she tried to strike a deal with Graz'zt, but trusting a creature of immense evil isn't exactly a good idea (obviously Waukeen lost most of her sanity as well as her powers ).  He quickly betrayed and imprisoned her.

Waukeen has since been rescued from Graz'zt (by a band of adventurers, no less... (There was a module with that very goal - "For Duty and Deity")), and has returned to the Realms and recovered her portfolio from Lliira - jealousy has now caused a rift between the two former friends (many Waukeenar converted to Lliiraism during that time, but did not convert back).

Edited by Zandilar, 12 August 2004 - 03:47 PM.

[Bane]

Tyr is the same god as Tyr from the Norse pantheon. So he's yet another Earth Based Interloper.


Waukeen has since been rescued from Graz'zt (by a band of adventurers, no less... (There was a module with that very goal - "For Duty and Deity")), and has returned to the Realms and recovered her portfolio from Lliira - jealousy has now caused a rift between the two former friends (many Waukeenar converted to Lliiraism during that time, but did not convert back).

Do FW actually acknowledge he is from Earth though or is it just a coincidence or maybe that's where they got Tyr's name from?

You just can't anyone nowadays, you go away for awhile and everyone converted

[Feanor]

Her portfolio was taken by Liira while Cyric slew LEIRA (two different Godesses )

Ups, since the names were very ressembling, I thought it was the same deity and it was just a spelling mistake... :bash:

Edited by Feanor, 13 August 2004 - 12:35 AM.

[Feanor]

Tyr came from another Prime Material world, but I don't think we've ever been told it's name.

Waukeen wasn't destroyed during the Time of Troubles, she gave her portfolio and much of her divine essence to her friend Llira and thus managed to escape to the planes. There she tried to strike a deal with Graz'zt, but trusting a creature of immense evil isn't exactly a good idea (obviously Waukeen lost most of her sanity as well as her powers ). He quickly betrayed and imprisoned her.

But what was known about her fate to their followers from Toril ? In TOB, some characters refer to Waukeen as to a dead goddess. It's another inconsistency or the mortals thought she was dead ?

[Arachnos]

Well she was'nt answering prayers or granting spells and divinations were inconclusive, so the faithful of Waukeen assumed she was dead.

This assumption was reaffirmed (in their eyes) when LLira said she was holding (in trust) Waukeen's divinity, and portfolio. So when Llira starting granting spells to Waukeen's faithful most of them jumped ship.

Someone mentioned above that their has been a sort of 'schism' between Llira and Waukeen (who were best friends before ToT), Any1 care to elaborate on this, cos the last time i checked (2ed F&A), Llira actually hoped that Waukeen would return.

[Zandilar]

Heya,

Tyr came from another Prime Material world, but I don't think we've ever been told it's name.

Waukeen wasn't destroyed during the Time of Troubles, she gave her portfolio and much of her divine essence to her friend Llira and thus managed to escape to the planes.  There she tried to strike a deal with Graz'zt, but trusting a creature of immense evil isn't exactly a good idea (obviously Waukeen lost most of her sanity as well as her powers ).  He quickly betrayed and imprisoned her.

But what was known about her fate to their followers from Toril ? In TOB, some characters refer to Waukeen as to a dead goddess. It's another inconsistency or the mortals thought she was dead ?

At the time of BG2 (either 1368DR or 1369DR IIRC), Waukeen is still languishing in Graz'zt's prison, and Lliira is currently granting spells to her faithful. Waukeen is not actually dead, she's just... umm... not a god at the time for all intents and purposes*. She's rescued in 1371DR.

The current (pen and paper) game year is 1372DR.

* What use is she for Gratz'zt then, I hear you ask? Well she knows a lot about lost wealth and where it could be found, despite not having her godhood... Wealth that could be power if in the right hands. (I think that's the reason given in For Duty and Deity, but it's been a while since I've owned that module.)

[Zandilar]

Heya,

Well she was'nt answering prayers or granting spells and divinations were inconclusive, so the faithful of Waukeen assumed she was dead.

Actually, the strongest and most faithful of her priests never lost faith (which is pretty much where the module For Duty and Deity started - one of Waukeen's faithful had a vision of her trapped by Graz'zt)... and Lliira went to great lengths to make sure Waukeen's clergy knew that she was only holding onto this portfolio in trust for Waukeen (in other words, that she felt that Waukeen would eventually return).

Someone mentioned above that their has been a sort of 'schism' between Llira and Waukeen (who were best friends before ToT), Any1 care to elaborate on this, cos the last time i checked (2ed F&A), Llira actually hoped that Waukeen would return.

Well the strange thing is, when I went and looked it up, Faiths and Pantheons (the 3rd Edition God Book) practically contradicts itself... Here are the relevant bits:

Waukeen

History/Relationships: At the Time of Troubles Waukeen was still a relatively young deity with few enemies other than Mask, whose portfolio naturally opposed hers. As such, it was quite unexpected that Waukeen was never seen during the Time of Troubles and never reclaimed her mantle following its conclusion. The truth behind her disappearance is that she conspired with Lliira to leave her divine mantle behind and escaped to the Astral Plane with the aid of a deity from another world. Once on the Astral Plane, she intended to make her way back to her realm via the Abyss through the purchased aid of the demon lord Graz'zt. However, Graz'zt betrayed her, making her his prisoner, and it was not until she was rescued by daring adventurers in 1371DR that she regained her divinity. Waukeen has since revitalized and reassured her worshipers of her existance and her restored divine power. She is very closely with Lliira (who held her portfolio in trust while she was imprisoned), Gond (whose inventions she appreciates), and Shaundakul (whose portfolio complements hers). Aside from Mask, her only true enemy is Graz'zt, against whom she has sworn her eventual revenge.

Lliira

History/Relationships: Lliira's greatest friend in the Faerun pantheon is Milil who shares her flare for perfomance. Once a great friend of the commerce goddess Waukeen, Lliira even went as far as to absorb many of the disaffected clerics of the Merchant's Friend when that goddess vanished during the Time of Troubles. Upon her return, however, Waukeen jealously coverted those clerics who had converted to Lliiranism, and the resulting ill will has formed a slight rift between the former companions. The murder of Selgaunt's High Revelmistress Chalanna Asjros (whom Lliira had taken as a lover while in mortal form during the Time of Troubles) by forces of Loviatar has deeply affected the Joybringer. A militant order known as the scarlet mummers now tours Faerun with her support, dispatching agents of the Maiden of Pain by means of an elaborate and deadly dance utilizing the mummers' blade boots.

Edited by Zandilar, 13 August 2004 - 04:29 AM.

[Zandilar]

Heya,

Is it possible for a mortal to ascend if he gets enough people to worship him?

Anyone who wishes to ascend to godhood has to get Ao's approval*. (It helps to have a divine sponsor - such as Finder Wyvernspur who had Tymora as a patron, and he defeated Moander to become a demi-god.)

* Which means that any potential new deity needs to either fit into Ao's idea of "balance" or serve Ao's idea of "balance". Also, the new deity can't overlap portfolios with another demigod (though the new deity can overlap with greater deities, but they'd find themselves serving them. )

I have played one RPG system that included such "priests of themselves" (They "attracted lightning" a lot but could do incridible things at high levels) but I don't know if the trick works in Fearun as well.

I'm pretty sure that trick won't work in Faerun. The PC would need to be a god to grant themselves powers.

[Arachnos]

I'm really very much against the talk of specific powers of certain gods. In my line of thinking, gods are only as powerful as they are worshipped. I think that the more a god is worshipped then the more powers it should be capable of handing out.

Is it possible for a mortal to ascend if he gets enough people to worship him?

I have played one RPG system that included such "priests of themselves" (They "attracted lightning" a lot but could do incridible things at high levels) but I don't know if the trick works in Fearun as well.

Yes it is possible for a mortal to ascend. As omeone has already pointed out you need Ao's approval, and a divine sponsor never hurts, Finder had Tymora and Velsharoon had Talos.

However, i think Tchazzar was the last 'mortal' to ascend to demigod status who did'nt have a patron (altho he (or is it a she)) has since been swallowed up by Tiamat

[Bane]

is Tiamaat the same as in D&D the cartoon because in the cartoon it seemed neutral rather than evil

[Arachnos]

is Tiamaat the same as in D&D the cartoon because in the cartoon it seemed neutral rather than evil

No Tiamat in FR is lawful evil (and lives in Avernus, the first layer of hell if memory serves me right)

[Feanor]

is Tiamaat the same as in D&D the cartoon because in the cartoon it seemed neutral rather than evil 

No Tiamat in FR is lawful evil (and lives in Avernus, the first layer of hell if memory serves me right)

I suppose you mean the first layer of the Abyss, not of the Hell.