278 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Some worlds have little or no magic, so if a mage travelled there they wouldn't be able to cast any spells. Similarly, some worlds have so much magic that if an unsuspecting mage from another world tried to cast a spell there, the magical energies would completely overwhelm him.

Care to give some examples ?

[Stone Wolf]

He's just nit-picking.

[NiGHTMARE]

Earth is the perfect example of a low magic world . If you want an actual D&D setting, wizards are apparently extremely rare in Birthright.

I can't actually remember what book it is which has magical ratings for worlds and so on (there's some info on the subject in Spells & Magic, but it's not the one I'm thinking of), but if I find it I'll post more from it .

[Stone Wolf]

I think it's the Player's Option: High Level Campaigns book.

[NiGHTMARE]

Ah yes, that's the one .

Rating             Magical Effects

2                    No spell, spell-like ability, magical item, artifact, or psionic power functions, and travel into or out of the area is possible only through a pre-existing gate. Land creatures are not more than 10 feet tall, and there are no flying creatures. Demihuman and fantastic creatures do not exist.

3                    Potions, wands, rings, and miscellaneous magic is ineffective, and from 6-9 schools of magic are modified in some way. Spell casting times and PSP requirements are quintupled, and 4th-10th level spells can?t be cast. Land creatures are not more than 10 feet tall, and flight is limited to creatures less than six inches tall. There are no demihumans or fantastic creatures.

4                    Potions, wands, and rings are ineffective and from 4-9 schools of magic are modified in some fashion. Spell casting times and PSP requirements quintupled; 5th-10th level spells impossible; land creatures are not more than 10 feet tall; flight is limited to creatures less than 1-foot-tall. There are no demihumans or fantastic creatures.

5                    Potions and wands ineffective; 3-9 schools of magic modified. Spell casting times and PSP requirements are quintupled, and 6th-10th level spells can?t be cast-native spellcasters are almost unknown. Land creatures are not more than 10 feet tall, and flight is limited to size T creatures (two feet tall or less). There are no demihumans or fantastic creatures.

6                    Potions are ineffective and from 3-9 schools of magic are modified. Spell casting times and PSP requirements quadrupled, and 7th-10th level spells can?t be cast. Native spellcasters are very rare and have supra-genius Intelligence. There are no land creatures more than 15 feet tall, no bipedal creatures more than 10 feet tall, and flight is limited to size S or smaller creatures.

7                    Most spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, but 2-7 schools of magic are modified. Spell casting times and PSP requirements are tripled, and 8th-10th level spells cannot be cast. With long and difficult training, a few creatures of at least genius Intelligence can learn to cast spells. There are no land creatures more than 20 feet tall, no bipedal creatures more than 15 feet tall, and flight is limited to size M or smaller creatures.

8                    Most spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, but 2-5 schools of magic are modified. Spell casting times and PSP requirements are doubled, and 9th-10th level spells can?t be cast. With training, a few creatures of at least exceptional Intelligence can learn to cast spells. There are no land creatures more than 25 feet tall, no bipedal creatures more than 20 feet tall, and flight is limited to size L or smaller creatures.

9                    Most spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, and only 1-4 schools of magic are modified. True Dweomers (10th-level spells) are not available, but creatures with at least average intelligence can learn to cast spells if properly trained. There are no land creatures more than 30 feet tall, no bipedal creatures more than 25 feet tall, and flight is limited to size H or smaller creatures.

10-12              Spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, and most creatures of at least average Intelligence can learn to cast spells with adequate training. There are no practical limits on the size of land or of flying creatures, and demihumans and fantastic creatures are fairly common.

13                   Spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, and major races have minor spell-like abilities or psionic wild talents. Some individual spells are modified.

14                   Most spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, and major races have minor and major spell-like abilities or multiple psionic powers. Some elemental spells and from 1-4 schools of magic are modified.

15                   Most spells, magical items, and psionics function normally, and major races have minor, major, and extraordinary spell-like abilities or full psionic powers. Some elemental spells are modified. From 2-5 schools of magic are also modified with possibly catastrophic effects.

16                   Same as above, except that from 2-7 schools of magic are modified with possibly catastrophic effects.

17                   Same as above, except that from  3-9 schools of magic are modified with possibly catastrophic effects.

18                   Same as above, except that most beings of at least average Intelligence have minor spellcasting abilities.

19                   Same as above, except that beings of average Intelligence have minor spellcasting abilities, and those with at least high intelligence have major spellcasting abilities. Wizard characters do not need to study spellbooks.

20                   Same as above, except that beings of average intelligence have major spellcasting abilities, and those with at least high Intelligence have extraordinary spellcasting abilities. Wizard characters do not need to study spellbooks, and no spellcaster needs to memorize spells.

[fallen_demon]

wait, worlds w/o magic can't have flying creatures? earth?

[Kish]

Earth would fall somewhere in the 6-8 range. (How big are the biggest flying creatures here, anyway?)

[Caedwyr]

Modern day? I think it's the albatros with a 15 foot + wingspan.

In the past, the flying Pterasaurus had a significantly larger wingspan, but I can't recall it off the top of my head.

[Kish]

Modern day?  I think it's the albatros with a 15 foot + wingspan.

In the past, the flying Pterasaurus had a significantly larger wingspan, but I can't recall it off the top of my head.

So Earth now would qualify as 8. In the past it would have been 10 or more. I wonder if the D&D writers deliberately wrote it that way with the idea that Earth has become less magical than it was in prehistoric times, or if they just forgot about Pterosaurs.

However, it's not going to fit perfectly, because above 6, some people should have magic, and they don't.

Edited by Kish, 24 October 2004 - 12:04 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Heh, there exists a number of things that can't yet be explained by science. I admit that if a person walks up to me and says that he is a wizard, I'm just thinking: Why is this deluded fool pestering me? But what about history and legends ie. Michel de Notredame a.k.a Nostradamus? One COULD think that Earth has had magic at least in the past... again, it is a question of opinion and belief .

[neriana]

http://www.skepdic.com/nostrada.html

Nostradamus wasn't any more accurate than any other astrologer or so-called psychic. Earth doesn't fit into D&D, nor should it, since there isn't really any such thing as magic.

[Archmage Silver]

A question of belief to be sure. If you believe, things not thought possible can happen. But don't mind me, I just am like this, believing in many things others do not.

[NiGHTMARE]

http://www.skepdic.com/nostrada.html

Nostradamus wasn't any more accurate than any other astrologer or so-called psychic. Earth doesn't fit into D&D, nor should it, since there isn't really any such thing as magic.

Then again, only a few hundred years ago everyone said that the earth wasn't round, and that it didn't revolve around the sun.

You can't say something cannot possibly exist if you have no proof.

[Chevalier]

Then again, only a few hundred years ago everyone said that the earth wasn't round, and that it didn't revolve around the sun.

You can't say something cannot possibly exist if you have no proof.

WHAT??? Where do you get your history Nightmare? They have know the world is round for thousands of years! Any sailor can tell you that. The Egyptains figured out the diammater of the earth and got it wrong. Columbus just thought the Earth was much smaller and that he could sail to china.

[Archmage Silver]

Tsk tsk, NiGHTMARE was just using that as an example and it surely wasn't meant to be a precise historical fact.

[Stone Wolf]

Heck, there probably are some people who still think the earth is flat. Some of the southern U.S. states come to mind.

[Feanor]

Some time ago, it was a discussion if a mortal could kill a god. However, could an immortal one (a demon lord, an archdevil or a solar) to defeat/kill a god ?

[fallen_demon]

I'm gonna continue to keep on believing theirs no magic or psionics on earth until proven otherwise, thanx. and i was just commenting on how its strange that they left room for no-magic worlds but not for earth, as-we know it. and even assuming earth has a little magic, i don't see why they linked flight to magic, as largish creatures capable of doing it on earth certainly don't use this magic which may or may not exist. plus other factors could lead to larger flight such as lower gravity. wait...never mind, i forgot my point. oh, and dinosaurs could get big enough to require a 10-12 rating, which seems similar to fr to me and far more magical then even most real world mythology states.

although as i learned from nightmare, they did try to fit earth into 1e, so saying it isn't supposed to work isn't an entirely true statement, (but i'm guessing they made it magical)

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, who's to say earth wasn't more magical around the time of the dinosaurs?

[Andyr]

Someone famous said some quote I can't quite remember, so I'll paraphrase it. It was something like sufficiently advanced science would be indistinguishable from magic.

I think the premise was that if you showed ancient man something like a walkman or a plane they'd think it was magical.