74 replies to this topic

[LarryTheArcher]

Why? It would be nice. If she already has her MAgic Resistance, give her back the other abilities too.

[T.G.Maestro]

Yes, the main point is hat we keep discussing an addition that is based on a completely non-pnp game implementation - why are we talking about pnp rules in the first place if the core BG2 material of Viconia is completely illegal?

We have to decide which path we follow here, but one thing is clear for me: no matter which one we choose, she will remain a totally illegal character according to pnp rules. Of course, BG2 is NOT true pnp, we all know this.

[LarryTheArcher]

Yes, the main point is hat we keep discussing an addition that is based on a completely non-pnp game implementation - why are we talking about pnp rules in the first place if the core BG2 material of Viconia is completely illegal?

We have to decide which path we follow here, but one thing is clear for me: no matter which one we choose, she will remain a totally illegal character according to pnp rules. Of course, BG2 is NOT true pnp, we all know this.

lol its 2.5 Ed...

just go with adding ther abilities, or mkae as if she always had have them...

[T.G.Maestro]

We'll decide about all this once we finished the remaining work on the HLA System. Hopefully it won't last too long.

[Gothic Rose]

On the subject of Drow abilities...

In ADD they were gained from life surrounded by faerzress, a kind of magical contamination. Think nuclear leakage, only magical. Generations of elves in the underdark ended up with magic powers. Nifty.

But stupid. Oh so stupid.

Then, TSR got bought out, and WOTC came in. 3e rolled around. And their abilities? Well, the drow have BRED them into their blood. Selective breeding and magical experimentation of the most twisted sort. Only those strong willed individuals survive...(+2 Cha) Only those who can get out of harms way survive.... (+2 Dex) Only those intelligent and cunning enough to further themselves safely survive.... (+2 Int)

So basically, the question on Viconia's powers becomes: Do you want her to have the magic in her blood, or do you want it to be because Drow live in the Underdark?

[T.G.Maestro]

My pick would be the first, but right now BG2 counts as 2ndE...

[Stone Wolf]

I think the people doing 3E read too many Salvatore books and just wanted to make the Drow cooler. Maybe to balance things out the Drow should burst into flames if sunlight touches them. Heh, that brings to mind a move quote I rather like:

Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a f**k how crazy they are.

The quote is off-topic, but it always gets me laughing.

[Jinnai]

My pick would be the first, but right now BG2 counts as 2ndE...

Only to an extent.

[T.G.Maestro]

Only to an extent

We can say to 95%.

[Jinnai]

Only to an extent

We can say to 95%.

Closer to 80%, maybe 85%. There is one or two things from 1st edition that popped up, whole classes based on 3.x edition as well as other minor stuff. And then there is stuff that has nothing to do with any versions.

Edited by Jinnai, 27 November 2004 - 01:03 PM.

[LarryTheArcher]

It's a computer adaption, and it's hard to make it follow any one rule set, especially with 3 versions floating around

[Jinnai]

It's a computer adaption, and it's hard to make it follow any one rule set, especially with 3 versions floating around

Technically 4. You forget the original D&D.

[Gothic Rose]

It's a computer adaption, and it's hard to make it follow any one rule set, especially with 3 versions floating around

Technically 4. You forget the original D&D.

It's not hard at all. NWN did it. BG1 did it. Pools of Radiance did it. DS: Shattered Lands did it. DS: Wake of the Ravager did it. So on so forth. It's just that BG2 was in development when DnD3e was in devo, and WotC bought TSR, and so they wanted to make it more 3e-ish. Hence Mazzy, the "fighter." Cuz in 2e, halflings cannot be paladins. But in 3e they can. So they made her a paladin. Only not quite.

Or Minsc, who -should- be a barbarian. He -acts- like a barbarian, he -rages- like a barbarian (well, like a Frenzied Berserker prestige class). Rashemon is full of Barbarians. But he's not, cuz Barbarian wasn't a class when they made BG1 (Ok, it KIND OF was, but that's dealing with seperate players option books.)

And there are more than four. There's DUngeons and Dragons, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons Second Edition, ADD2e, DnD 3e, DnD 3.5.

That's six. Which is annoying. Because that's a lot. Even for a game that's been around for 30 years. That's one edition every five years. That's a lot. And I'm not even counting Chainmail, and it's two incarnations.

[fallen_demon]

An npc not being a 3e class that fits their personalities is hardly an argument for calling bgii more 3e.

Also, it almost sounds like a game sticking to a certain version is an acomplishment. Taking elemts from various rule sets can be a good thing.

[Jinnai]

it depends on how you look at it. To people like myself, keeping as close to a set is far more important than not because i originally bought BG1 because i wanted the AD&D 2nd Ed. experience on the pc, not some random game engine. I really am not 100% fond of Forgotten Realms, but being able to play a 2nd edition game, even with some limitiations was enough to say, "Lets give BG a try."

Now others may disagree, and they are certainly entitled to, but if your a purest like me it is good.

That said Refinements isn't bad...some things done i don't like, but on the whole its better, especially because the mod strives to use the D&D rules whenever possible (although it would be nice if someone could find some people willing to make new animations for specific eneimes).