74 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

You might have noticed this in the TODO list. To clear things up, I always hated the way some of the original Bioware NPCs were released. I'm talking about aesthetic stuff mostly (Minsc and Sarevok having hair, Jaheira having a disgusting skin color, Haer'Dalis lacking his normal Tiefling resistances, etc.). I always edit these things manually before I start a new game, but soon after we started to work on Refinements, I decided to add this in the future as an individual component. A component that aims to fix these flaws on the NPCs. I also had in mind the slight modification of new player-made NPCs like Valen, but that will come later, and we need the authors' permissions of course. So lets just talk about the Bioware made NPCs.
I'd like to hear your possible complaints with these original characters. Please tell me everything you dislike in them, or find out of place in their current implementation, so we can discuss this further. Currently I have the following modifications:

Imoen:
- modified her clothing colors to match the ones seen on her picture.

Minsc:
- "Removed" his hair, he looks completely bald, just as he should;
- modified the clothing colors to match the picture.

Jaheira:
- Changed her skin's tone to a much prettier color, one that is in line with her picture;
- modified the clothing colors, same as above.

Haer'Dalis:
- added his missing tiefling resistances to his .cres (physical, elemental resistances).

Sarevok:
- removed the hair;
- boosted his starting XP somewhat (he was almost always at least 2-3 levels behind the PC);
- modified his Ascension sword (Sword of Chaos +4) to be a bit more fitting to his character. NOTE: this is only an experimental change, I haven't asked for permission yet!

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 12 May 2004 - 12:47 AM.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

All of that sounds good ... but how do you remove hair?

I've turned the hair the same color of the skin to get a semi-bald effect before but IMO it didn't look right. Are you making the hair transparent?

I personaly also have Imoen use the mage avitar (used to use SK but now it's in the G3 tweak pack).

I also regularly edit Aerie's colors as well. I usually change her hair color to a better blond and give her either blue or green or dark brown colors. Baervan Wildwanderer's colors are brown and green ... and I use blue with her affinity for the sky. Sometimes I do keep her secondary color yellow/gold too. Whatever I pick it aways looks better than the defaults.

[T.G.Maestro]

I'd like to make it clear that these changes will aim to bring these NPCs closer to their supposed look and character, so I won't apply changes that would make them look "better", yet non-original. For example: if the creators of BG2 intended Aerie to have orange clothes (and her picture indicates this well), I won't change it to black-red, just because it might look better. But if Minsc's picture has white-brown colors, I'll change his avatar to have the same tones instead of the old yellow-blue.

All of that sounds good ... but how do you remove hair?

The same way you did it. There is no other way. While it won't be prefect in the inventory screen (hair will have exactly the same color as the NPC's skin), it looks nice on the in-game avatars (think on Balthazar).

I personaly also have Imoen use the mage avitar

Since Refinements brings her closer to a thief by the SwashImoen component, it is very unlikely that we will give her a mage look. Only her clothing colors will become identical to those seen on her picture.

Once again, I'm waiting for any flaws you might have noticed on original NPCs following the logic described above .

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Hmm. In my game Aerie's picture looks like she is wearing light blue or white tinged with blue clothing or maybe even silverish. She has a gold necklace with a dark blue stone that matches her eyes. Most of her hair ornamentation is also light blue.

Just based on the pick I would say blue and gold would be better colors.

Edited by Rathwellin the Bard, 12 May 2004 - 03:43 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

I'll take a look at it later Rathwellin, thanks for pointing it out!

[Feanor]

Edwin should have access to spells from BG1...such as Dimension door and maybe a few others...

Yoshimo should lose some 'walk silently' thief points and gain some 'set traps' skill points...he IS a bounty hunter.

Dimension Door could ruin some quests, because, this way, Edwin could go some areas for which, normally, you need a key...

[T.G.Maestro]

[quote]Korgans Beard should be greyish not black like his paper doll[/quote]
Good catch. Added to the list.
[quote]he should definetly be a 2 weapon fighter instead of a sword and shield fighter. I usually rearrange some of his stars[/quote]
Um, no. Sorry, but nothing indicates that he should have 2 axes. He always talks about HIS AXE, and not axes. I'm pretty sure he is fine as he is at the moment.
[quote]MAYBE jan should have a thief avatar...? Aerie a cleric avatar?
[/quote]
Again, I don't see problems with them in their current implementation.
[quote]I always thought Jahiera should have 2 stars in scimitars instead of lame ass clubs...it just seems more Tethyrian IMO.[/quote]
Nope. Don't make a mistake. These are unique characters, not clear Druid/Ranger/Fighter characters. Most players follow the same method by character creation - they tend towards powergaming. For example if one creates a fighter, in 9 cases from 10 he/she will add 18/19 scores to his STR/DEX/CON while lowering his INT/WIS/CHA below 12-10. A shame if you ask me. This way the PC will be somewhat more effective in the game, but will lose many unique characteristics. And I could say the same thing about the Bioware NPCs as well - some of them have seemingly crazy profciency-allocations, while some of them don't (Minsc-Korgan). This adds a flavour to their character. Trust me, it wouldn't be that interesting to have a bunch of flawless Terminators running around with the PC - there is the multiplayer party for this.
[quote]perhaps Minsc should have stars in Two handed weapon style...he does use 2 handed swords as a prefered weapon afterall...[/quote]
You are rifht here though, he should deserve one point in Two-handed style.
[quote]Viconia's ToB proficiencies should be corrected...instead of 3 stars she should have 5. she's missing sword & shield as well as her flail star...[/quote]
Good point. Added to the list.
[quote]Haer'dalis has 2 stars in Long sword and shot sword...but due to the rogue rebalancing mod he wastes 3 stars in two weapon fighting when this isn't necesary.
[/quote]
No. While some of us might install RRM, some of us won't. This is an assumption, and we cannot base the addition of two extra proficiency points on it.

[Feanor]

QUOTE 
maybe you could install an optional component that increases each characters HP to the max that they should have per level


No way. 

I think you could obtain this effect if you set difficulty to easiest before level up...

[MindFlaw]

I thought he ment NPC (enemies) having max hitdice.

...some NPC's are missing quite a bit...

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Haer'dalis has 2 stars in Long sword and shot sword...but due to the rogue rebalancing mod he wastes 3 stars in two weapon fighting when this isn't necesary.

No. While some of us might install RRM, some of us won't. This is an assumption, and we cannot base the addition of two extra proficiency points on it.

I am pretty sure that WeiDU can check to see if other mods are installed during the setup process. My basic understanding is that this is one way you can make your mod NPC be able to talk with other mod NPCs.

If that's the case then it would seem to be fairly easy to be able to add 3 stars somewhere else if RR is installed & the NPC update component of Refinements is selected.

On a seperate tact, please make Valygar's katana useable for backstabs.

[T.G.Maestro]

I thought he ment NPC (enemies) having max hitdice

I think he meant NPCs like Anomaen, Jaheira, Jan, etc. But only he can tell for sure .

I am pretty sure that WeiDU can check to see if other mods are installed during the setup process.

But since I'm less than an amateur when it comes to WeiDU, we can as well forget this option.. until Littiz returns.

On a seperate tact, please make Valygar's katana useable for backstabs.

Might do.

[CamDawg]

Imoen:
- modified her clothing colors to match the ones seen on her picture.

Are you going to also graft a horned helmet onto Korgan's avatar since his portrait has one? Using the portrait as a basis for avatar tweaks seems like a poor idea.

Sarevok:
- boosted his starting XP somewhat (he was almost always at least 2-3 levels behind the PC)

All ToB NPCs start at 2.5M XP. If Sarevok doesn't, then by all means, this is a good change. If not, it's a terrible idea.

Haer'dalis has 2 stars in Long sword and shot sword...but due to the rogue rebalancing mod he wastes 3 stars in two weapon fighting when this isn't necesary.

No. While some of us might install RRM, some of us won't. This is an assumption, and we cannot base the addition of two extra proficiency points on it.

This is a simple check in WeiDU. All thief kits I design check for RRB and allow 3 stars in DW based on whether its installed or not, so allocating points based on RRB is a simple trick.

On a seperate tact, please make Valygar's katana useable for backstabs.

This is fixed by Baldurdash.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

On a seperate tact, please make Valygar's katana useable for backstabs.

This is fixed by Baldurdash.

Is it now...

Hmm. Maybe it was one of the other mods I had installed that game that changed it back. I haven't played without Baldurdash in ages.

[NiGHTMARE]

Sarevok:
- boosted his starting XP somewhat (he was almost always at least 2-3 levels behind the PC)

All ToB NPCs start at 2.5M XP. If Sarevok doesn't, then by all means, this is a good change. If not, it's a terrible idea.

He actually starts with more than this - 2.7 million to be precise.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Even without Tactics or other mods I'm well over that by the time I get to that point in the game. 4 to 4.5 mil seems about right based on memory for most party members that I've had with me.

I don't really mind Sarevok starting with less than the number mentioned above but it would be a nice tweak IMO if his starting ToB level was based on the PCs somehow with the 2.7 mil as a floor.