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Any theories on who TNO was?


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#61 The Amazing Maurice

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 03:06 AM

Dalis'ilhea, on May 21 2004, 11:13 AM, said:

Morte says that he isn't sure but he THINKS that it was you (nameless one) and I think that the blood war theroies have some merit because you keep having flash backs which means that you have at least fought in them, and also whenever you ask about the blood war you feel (fear?) I'm not sure if that would be the correct term, but you certainly had to have been someone of great importance and power in your first incarnation, because when you learn and use the bronze sphere and learn your 'first life' you gain 30 levels
one favor I must ask 'Adhan' I've heard many things about what happens when you go back to the smoldering corpse bar if you've been using that name, but I've never expereinced it, what actually happens because
1) I don't want to play through the whole game just for one thing and
2) My copy of torment is in bad shape and doesn't always work (thanks to my brother) and I have never managed to find another copy of it

The man in front of you has large eyes and a thin frame. He seems confused and frightened by the rest of the bar patrons, but he looks incredibly relieved to see you.

TNO: "Greetings?"

He chuckles lightly and rolls his eyes in a 'you wouldn't believe what happened to me' look that you find strangely familiar. "'Bout time, friend! I thought I might be here all day waiting for you."

TNO: "Uh... do I know you?"

"Why, yes." He gives you a peery eye. "At least, I think. I... uh... well... can't recall everything about you, but..." He frowns in thought, then shrugs. "...anyway, it's good to see you. I'm Adahn. We're friends, I take it. Excellent! I could use more friends like you, it seems..." He looks around in confusion. "Since I don't appear to know anyone in these parts, much less how I got here."

TNO: "Where are you from?"

Adahn seems surprised, and his confusion resurfaces. "I... hmmnnn." He frowns. "Well, not from around here, I don't believe... or do I? I think I would have recalled such a place. Don't really right recall where I'm from, or where I'm bound..."

TNO: "Do you know who I am?"

"An... old friend?" He sounds like he's testing the water. "Aren't you?"

TNO: "Yes, yes, I am. Say, I had some questions for you..."

"Oh, and I had some for you, too..." He frowns. "Except I can't seem to get a handle on 'em." He shrugs. "Questions - who needs 'em? All that matters is the answers anyway. I think."

"Well, it's been interesting, Adahn, but I have to leave. Farewell."

"Hey... uh..." He frowns. "Look, before you up and fly away to wherever abouts you're going, I've something for you... at least I think so..."

TNO: "What is it?"

"I'm not sure." He digs in his pockets, and frowns. "Pockets too damned small to keep anything in..." He scratches his head. "Maybe..." He pulls back his sleeves, first the left one, then the right one, looks angry, then lets both sleeves fall back to full length.

TNO: "Did you lose it?"

"No, no, just give me a minute." He curses under his breath, then pulls back his sleeves again, first the right one, then the left one. As he pulls back the left sleeve, you see a package tied to his wrist. He smiles in relief, unties it from his arm, then hands it to you. "For you, friend. From me, for you... a thanks of sorts!" He nods as you take the item. You study it... it looks like a ring of some sort.

TNO: "Thanks, Adahn."

As you look up from your gift to thank Adahn, you suddenly noticed he has vanished. You didn't even hear him leave.

TNO: "Uh... farewell, then."

Note: You can tell Adahn he is imaginary:

TNO: "Adahn was just somebody I made up. I didn't think there was anyone with that name."

"Really?" He shrugs, as if it's not important. "Well, I don't believe I made you up, so there's no trouble here... or is there? I think, therefore I am. I think." He looks puzzled. "Don't you think so?"

TNO: "Actually, I don't think I intended to make you up at all. Is it possible you're nothing more than a figment of my imagination?"

Adahn looks surprised, is about to say something, then suddenly vanishes into thin air.

Note: Depending on your wisdom & intellignce you can get more from Adahn

"I'm not sure." He digs in his pockets, and frowns. "Pockets too damned small to keep anything in..." He scratches his head. "Maybe..." He pulls back his sleeves, first the left one, then the right one, looks angry, then lets both sleeves fall back to full length.

TNO: "Why don't you check the left sleeve again? I think it might be there."

"Really?" He pulls back the left sleeve again, and this time, you see a package tied to his wrist. He smiles in relief, unties it from his arm, then hands it to you. "For you, friend. From me, for you... a thanks of sorts!" He nods as you take the item. You study it... it looks like a ring of some sort.

TNO: "Wasn't there some money to go along with this?"

He snaps his fingers. "Yes, there was, yes there was." He looks down at his belt, where there is now a belt pouch. He unties it and passes it to you. "It's all there. All hundred coppers." You take the bag, and open it. It all looks to be there.

TNO: "What about that enchanted item you wanted to give me?"

He looks puzzled for a moment, then smiles, as if remembering. "Why, yes, there was one, wasn't there?" He reaches into his right sleeve and pulls forth a long, slender dagger. "Here you are."

TNO: "Thanks, Adahn."

As you look up from your gift to thank Adahn, you suddenly noticed he has vanished. You didn't even hear him leave.

#62 Dalis'ilhea

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 03:41 AM

All hale the power of the Namless One :lol: he can meke people up and can make them disapear

damn I remembered something and it's gone, I swearnext I'll forget who I am I've already got plenty of scars...
I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird

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#63 Barren Fischa

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 11:06 AM

Adahn. I think you have to use the name 15 times and walk into the bar. Then you,re approached by a guy called Adahn the Imagined, who says he has been waiting for you. You may recognize him as an illusion, but if you choose not to, he'll give you Adahn's ring, a dagger +1, and some gold before disappearing.
Wondering where's the old Interplay community? Well, they're all at Ashford City!

#64 -Quiet Lurker-

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 01:03 AM

Dalis'ilhea, on May 21 2004, 03:31 AM, said:

All hale the power of the Namless One :lol: he can meke people up and can make them disapear

damn I remembered something and it's gone, I swearnext I'll forget who I am I've already got plenty of scars...

The Nameless One did not create Adahn, belief created him (like it does for much of Sigil).
Just like for Mourn-For-Trees, if enough people believed in trees, the trees will grow.
By going around claiming to be Adahn (or claiming to be looking for Adahn), the Nameless One have made people believe in the existence of an 'Adahn.' Once enough people believe in Adahn (10 people I think), Adahn exists (for a short while). -_-



The stats (found via Infinity Explorer) of the three incarnations in the Mirror of Reflections (Crystal trap in the Fortress of Regrets) are actually quite accurate, let's start with the Practical Incarnation:
Str 25 Int 25
Dex 14 Wis 16
Con 19 Cha 20

From the Godsmen foundry and working at the forge we know that craftsmanship is dependent on intelligence, with an intelligence of 25, the Practical Incarnations definitely had the ability (Int=25) to reproduce the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon onto stone, but lacked the wisdom to interpret it beyond the 5th circle (Wis=18 for 6th, Wis=19 for 7th and 8th).
Also consider that Morte referred to him as the smartest basher he's ever known (before Fortress).
I suspect Dak'kon's original teachings came from the Practical Incarnation since with a wisdom of 13 he couldn't have interpret the circle to that extent on his own.
As for the Practical Incarnation's immense strength, Tarner, the Mercykiller patron alludes to this in his dialog about a criminal "strong enough to tear the head off a bauriar" who got cornered by Mercykillers but escaped through a portal (with Vhailor chasing after him, according to Caleb the Mercykiller Patron)
The Practical Incarnation is charismatic enough to get Deionarra to die for him, but not enough to convince Vhailor that his quest for justice is futile (Chr=21)

Let's look now at the Paranoid Incarnation:
Str 21 Int 11
Dex 25 Wis 11
Con 20 Cha 13

From the Mirror of Reflections, we were told how the Paranoid Incarnation's arm was held literally by a thread, so we can reasonably assume that the dismembered arm in the crypt belonged to the Paranoid Incarnation.
Two of the tattoos (Tattoo of the Lost Incarnation and Tattoo of Wasting Darkness) on the arm told of the incarnation's career as a thief, which would explain the exceedingly high dexterity (Dex=25).
Furthermore, the Brimstone hammer found in the Paranoid Incarnation's camp along with his bone journal in the Lady's Maze suggest that the Paranoid Incarnation had also been a fighter, which would explain the high strength and constitution.


Therefore, to determine the identity of the Nameless One, I suggest looking at the Good Incarnation's stats (He is after all the original).
Str 17 Int 21
Dex 18 Wis 21
Con 18 Cha 11

His strength and constitution are high enough for a fighter and his dexterity high enough for a thief, but it is his exceptional intelligence and wisdom that leads me to believe that the original Nameless One was a powerful mage or cleric (or cleric/mage), but not as powerful as Ravel (Int=23/Wis=21) so was not able to make himself immortal.
As for being contracted into the Blood War; I'm not sure if the original Nameless One signed such a contract, but I believe that he has fought in the Blood War. Since physical evidence was apparent for the incarnations in the Mirror of Reflections (the Paranoid Incarnation's arm for example), if the Good Incarnation did not fight in the Blood War, the lack of scars (which Ravel and Fjhull said came from the Blood War) would have given him away.

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 03:39 PM

Quiet Lurker, on Jun 10 2004, 12:53 AM, said:

I suspect Dak'kon's original teachings came from the Practical Incarnation since with a wisdom of 13 he couldn't have interpret the circle to that extent on his own.

Dak'kon knew up to the Sixth Circle before he lost his faith. He came to a new interpretation of the Sixth Circle on his own, and taught it to other Zerths at Shra'kt'lor which caused Shra'kt'lor to fall. He didn't necessarily teach his new interpretation, but the fact that he didn't believe the old one while he was teaching it caused the others he taught to doubt as well ("His voice flattens, as if he is reciting a passage from memory." - *see below). It was after Shra'kt'lor fell that the Practical Incarnation gave him the version he has now.

At least in Torment's version of Planescape, it seems that up to the 6th circle is widely known among the Zerths, so I doubt the Practical Incarnation made up any of those. I think he may have made the Seventh and Eighth Circles which, conveniently enough, are designed to remove all doubt the Sixth Circle may have caused and because those are the ones that don't seem to be known to "the People."

* Discussing the Sixth Circle with Dak'kon;
Nameless: "I know that Zerthimon's devotion to the People was such that he was willing to protect them from themselves. He knew the *illithids* had come not to *know* themselves in their obsession with control and domination. So he chose to stop Gith before she carried the People to their deaths. There must be balance in all things, or else the self will not hold."
Dak'kon: "You have seen the words and *know* them." Dak'kon's voice slows, and his hands grip the edges of the Unbroken Circle. He twists it clockwise, and there is a *click* as two plates slides forth. Dak'kon stares at the two plates in his hand - he makes no move to hand them to you.
Nameless: "Dak'kon... is that second plate for you?"
Dak'kon: Dak'kon falls silent. His blade has ceased shimmering, the film freezing upon its surface. He is staring at the second plate, paralyzed.
Nameless: "Do *you* know the Sixth Circle?"
Dak'kon: Dak'kon looks up, but his coal-black eyes do not meet your gaze. "*Know* there is nothing more I may teach you. You *know* the Way as the People *know* it, and it shall give you the direction by which you may *know* yourself."
Nameless: "That's *not* what I asked. Do you *know* the Sixth Circle or not?"
Dak'kon: Dak'kon is silent for a moment, then speaks, his voice slow and careful. "It has come to pass that I do not *know* the Sixth Circle of Zerthimon. Once, I *knew* it, but I *know* now I only saw the words." Dak'kon's eyes stare through you. "That is all. It is my path that I no longer *know* the Way of Zerthimon."
Nameless: "Was it because of what happened at Shra'kt'lor?"
Dak'kon: "I do not *know.* The People became divided, and the People suffered. Upon reading the Unbroken Circle, I *know* now that I took the *knowing* of the Fifth Circle and used the Power of One to bring about the Sixth Circle in Shra'kt'lor. In so doing, I divided the People. There was much suffering. I carry Shra'kt'lor with me always."
Nameless: "Dak'kon... there is one other thing I would *know.* Why is Vilquar's Eye in the Circle of Zerthimon? It seems strange. It tells of how the People benefited from a treachery from their own. It seems - "
Dak'kon: Dak'kon's eyes flash. "I have told you it is part of the telling of how the People came to *know* freedom. Do you not listen?" His voice flattens, as if he is reciting a passage from memory. "It tells the People that even in the greatest treachery, a greater *knowing* may be achieved."
Nameless: "It doesn't sound to me like you believe that. I think there's another reason Vilquar's Eye is in the Circle of Zerthimon. It is set there because of the Sixth Circle and the Pronouncement of Two Skies. It's there to justify Zerthimon's treachery to the People upon the Blasted Plains."
Dak'kon: Dak'kon is silent, and his blade bleeds into a dead-black, teeth rippling along the edge.
Nameless: "He divided the People upon the Blasted Plains, Dak'kon. He divided your race, when they were on the path of victory. I would *like* to believe that it was because he wished to save the People from themselves - but I don't think *you* believe that."
Dak'kon: Dak'kon is silent for a moment, then he speaks, slowly. "I... do not *know* the Sixth Circle as it is *known* to others. I fear that the Third Circle, the Fourth Circle and the Sixth Circle are more closely linked than many *know.* It is in that *knowing* that I have lost myself."
Nameless: "In the Third Circle, Zerthimon submerged his will to deceive the *illithids,* then in the Fourth Circle, it speaks of the benefits of *treachery.* Then in the Sixth Circle, Zerthimon divides his people before they exterminate the *illithids.* Do you think Zerthimon's words may not have been his own?"
Dak'kon: "*Know* my words, and *know* the wound that lies upon my heart: I fear that when Zerthimon was upon the Pillars of Silence, he did not submerge his will. I fear his will was taken from him by the *illithids.* And when he spoke upon the Blasted Plains, it was their words he spoke. I fear that what he did was not for the People's sake, but for our former masters."
Nameless: "It's possible, but *know* it doesn't necessarily mean that h..."
Journal Entry: In learning the Sixth Circle of Zerthimon, I found that Dak'kon doesn't believe in the Sixth Circle himself. Ironically enough, I think he lost the *knowing* of himself *because* he read the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon.
Dak'kon: "Then *know* this and speak of it NO MORE." Dak'kon voice is like a knife. "*Know* that I shall never *know* the TRUTH. There is NO resolution to this matter, for I shall NEVER *know* Zerthimon's heart upon the Blasted Plains." His coal black eyes glare at the stone circle in his hand. "And so I do not *know* myself because of the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon."
Nameless: "Very well, Dak'kon. We'll discuss this no more... let's move on."

Quiet Lurker, on Jun 10 2004, 12:53 AM, said:

From the Mirror of Reflections, we were told how the Paranoid Incarnation's arm was held literally by a thread, so we can reasonably assume that the dismembered arm in the crypt belonged to the Paranoid Incarnation.
Two of the tattoos (Tattoo of the Lost Incarnation and Tattoo of Wasting Darkness) on the arm told of the incarnation's career as a thief, which would explain the exceedingly high dexterity (Dex=25).


I'd consider the fact that this incarnation is given his own name ("the Lost Incarnation") as a hint that it was not intended to be the same incarnation as the Paranoid Incarnation. And the crypt that you find your old arm in is the Crypt of Dismemberment with traps that are designed to cut up bodies so it's not as though a limb would need to be loose in the first place to be lost there.

Also, the thing about the Paranoid Incarnation's arm being loose was just stuck in there as an excuse to use the animation of TNO wielding his own ripped off arm as a weapon (which happens if the Paranoid Incarnation enters combat). This ability and animation was originally intended for the player but the idea was scrapped.

From one of the tattoos;
"Apparently, this tattoo tells of the experiences of one of your past incarnations... the symbols and tales are unfamiliar to you, but it seems to tell of a time when you were lost and abandoned on the streets of the Hive, barely able to make a living robbing and stealing from others you encountered. The crimes the lost incarnation committed eventually drove him to seek shelter in the Weeping Stone catacombs, where he survived for almost a year."

This really doesn't sound like the Paranoid Incarnation to me, who most of the memories/evidence of comes from the Clerk's Ward, who trained in the Festhall to learn the language of the Uyo, created the Dodecahedron journal, the trapped sensory stone and the trapped magical scroll. Yes, he committed many crimes, but those were usually to kill people who claimed to know a previous incarnation, not because he was robbing them to get by.

There is no proof either way, but it seems to me any similarities between the two are vague and coincidental.

#66 -Quiet Lurker-

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 08:05 PM

Platter, on Jun 14 2004, 03:29 PM, said:

At least in Torment's version of Planescape, it seems that up to the 6th circle is widely known among the Zerths, so I doubt the Practical Incarnation made up any of those. I think he may have made the Seventh and Eighth Circles which, conveniently enough, are designed to remove all doubt the Sixth Circle may have caused and because those are the ones that don't seem to be known to "the People."

Considering that the Practical Incarnation in the Maze of Reflections called the Unbroken Circle a "collection of lies" with "perhaps some truth," I doubt that he understood much beyond the fifth circle much less make them up. :P

Furthermore, the Practical Incarnation does not know of Dak'kon's crisis of faith, much less on how to cure it. (I believe he knew of all eight circles and reproduced them all in stone, but "saw only words" in the last three circles)

Platter, on Jun 14 2004, 03:29 PM, said:

This really doesn't sound like the Paranoid Incarnation to me, who most of the memories/evidence of comes from the Clerk's Ward, who trained in the Festhall to learn the language of the Uyo, created the Dodecahedron journal, the trapped sensory stone and the trapped magical scroll. Yes, he committed many crimes, but those were usually to kill people who claimed to know a previous incarnation, not because he was robbing them to get by.

All a matter of interpretation isn't it? Before the Maze of Reflections, the Paranoid Incarnation can be considered lost. -_-

Besides, the Paranoid Incarnation had been in the Weeping Stones Catacombs.
Recall how in the Maze of Reflections when you ask the Practical Incarnation about the Tomb of the Nameless One in the Drowned Nations Catacombs, the Paranoid Incarnation laughs at how childishly simple the traps were and how he changed the writings. (Thus he definitely have been to Drowned Nations)
In order to reach the Drowned Nations Catacombs you have to go through the Weeping Stones Catacombs. I don't think the path through the catacombs have been changed since Pharod mentioned how he chose the location of the Buried Village because the Dabuses don't go there.

#67 Dalis'ilhea

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 08:00 AM

I have one question, thats been nagging me, where the hell does the idea that the Nameless one being a level 24 priest in the past come from? because I've never found anything that explains where that coms from in the game
I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird

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I am who I am, and none shall change me

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 10:34 PM

Dalis'ilhea, on Jun 15 2004, 07:50 AM, said:

where the hell does the idea that the Nameless one being a level 24 priest in the past come from?

Who said that?

Quiet Lurker, on Jun 14 2004, 07:55 PM, said:

Considering that the Practical Incarnation in the Maze of Reflections called the Unbroken Circle a "collection of lies" with "perhaps some truth," I doubt that he understood much beyond the fifth circle much less make them up.  :P

To claim that he couldn't have made them up because he doesn't believe them to be true doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't it make sense for him to call it a "collection of lies" if he was in fact the one who made them?

After you learn the Sixth Circle, Dak'kon tells you "*Know* there is nothing more I may teach you. You *know* the Way as the People *know* it, and it shall give you the direction by which you may *know* yourself.""

And then, when you find a Seventh and Eighth Circle, Dak'kon is shocked. Conveniently, these circles say just what Dak'kon needs to hear to have his faith fully restored.

Quiet Lurker, on Jun 14 2004, 07:55 PM, said:

Furthermore, the Practical Incarnation does not know of Dak'kon's crisis of faith, much less on how to cure it.

He explicitly mentions Dak'kon's lack of faith, using that exact word, and how he made the Circle to help retore it. He says this in the exact same line of dialog you just quoted. Note the two italicized portions;

Nameless: "You gave Dak'kon the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon. Why?"
Practical Incarnation: "The Unbroken Circle? That collection of lies? Yes, it was a week's work to forge such a thing - it was necessary to make it so he would cease doubting himself."
Nameless: "You *made* it? But you told him -"
Practical Incarnation: "Perhaps they carry some truth - I know not. I know that they were tedious writings, but the words were enough to give him faith."
Nameless: "Why?"
Practical Incarnation: "Your ignorance astounds me." The man looks incredulous. "Can it be that you not know what he carries in his hand? That blade he carries is shaped by his *thoughts.* Such a tool, when used properly, could slay the multiverse itself..." The man looks lost in thought, then his face sneers in disgust. "Though obviously, the gith became separated when we arrived in the Fortress, and I was unable to make use of his blade." The man frowns. "Unfortunate."

Quiet Lurker, on Jun 14 2004, 07:55 PM, said:

Besides, the Paranoid Incarnation had been in the Weeping Stones Catacombs.

Yes, I know. The only main incarnation we don't have evidence of having been down there (including our incarnation) is the original incarnation.

#69 Platter

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 11:47 PM

That was me.

Anyway, if the Seventh and Eighth Circles are not part of Zerth lore as the previous Six are (as I argue in my previous post), and the Practical Incarnation made Dak'kon's Circle, just where do you think the last two stories came from?

Also note how the narrative suddenly stops at the end of the 6th circle. The last two do not continue the story and are out of place. They are apologetic in nature, when interpreted in the way you explain it to Dak'kon if you have the Wisdom, explaining Zerthimon's actions;
Nameless: "I think when you *know* the Eighth Circle, perhaps then you will *know* Zerthimon's heart when he made the Pronouncement of Two Skies. His words were not those of the *illithids,* but of the People."

What a coincidence that it was Zerthimon's actions that Dak'kon needed explained, as you find out when you discover his doubts about the Sixth Circle;
Dak'kon: "*Know* that I shall never *know* the TRUTH. There is NO resolution to this matter, for I shall NEVER *know* Zerthimon's heart upon the Blasted Plains."

What a coincidence that the Eighth Circle talks about exactly Dak'kon's problem that resulted from this;
Nameless: "There was an Eighth Circle within the Stone of Zerthimon. It spoke of division of the mind, and the importance of focus."
Dak'kon: Dak'kon falls silent. When he speaks again... his tone is quiet, almost reverent. "What does this Eighth Circle speak of?"
Nameless: "It speaks of focus and discipline... about how not *knowing* oneself can physically divide the man. It also speaks of the weaknesses that division causes. It seems to me that it tells one to not only *know* themselves and take strength from that, but that your focus can reveal weaknesses in your enemy."

It's also interesting that the Seventh Circle is the only one that teaches you a non-Zerth-themed spell ("Missile of Patience"). I won't make a big deal out of this point though, because of the Eighth Circle (which teaches "Zerthimon's Focus" - perhaps "some truth" that the Practical Incarnation happened upon by chance? :D).

And more proof that the Practical Incarnation knew of Dak'kon's lack of faith;

Nameless: Surrender to the memory...
Dak'kon: Everything around you is in turmoil - your vision is hazy, swirling, dizzying, all at ONCE... there is mist, pockets of fire, islands of mud, stone, and ice-covered rocks swimming through the Plane like fish, impacting and dissolving, droplets of water arcing through the howling air, and lashing your skin like teeth - you choke back your nausea, and you steady yourself; this is the Plane of *Limbo,* all is chaos, nothing is stable... you focus on the dying man that lies before you. It is why you have come to this place.
Nameless: Echo: Examine the *zerth,* see if he still lives.
Dak'kon: The 'man' is a githzerai, his body embedded in an earthen pocket that swirls around him - unconsciously, he has formed a grave from the elements, and though bits of fire and water lick at his face, he does not respond. His hands are ashen, his coal-black eyes focusing on nothing - his emaciated frame speaks of starvation, but you know it is the least of his wounds. It is faith that dealt him the mortal blow.
Nameless: Echo: Look for the blade he carries.
Dak'kon: In his limp left hand is a twisted mass of metal, its surface having melted around his hand like a gauntlet. As you watch, it steams and hisses, like a diseased snake. The githzerai does not seem to be aware of it... but it is that weapon that has brought you here.
Nameless: Echo: "Dak'kon, *zerth* of Shra'kt'lor-Drowning, last wielder of the *karach* blade, know that I have come to you with the words of Zerthimon, carved not in chaos, but in stone, carved by the will in an Unbroken Circle."
Dak'kon: At the word 'Zerthimon,' Dak'kon's eyes roll in their sockets, and they attempt to focus upon you. With effort, he cracks his mouth to speak, but only a dry hiss emerges. You bring forth the stone from your pack and hold it before him so he can see.
Nameless: Echo: "Know that the words of Zerthimon inscribed upon this stone are true, and know that your divided mind need be divided no longer. All you must do is take the stone and you shall *know* yourself again."
Dak'kon: Dak'kon's eyes flicker over the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon, and for a moment, you think he might be too close to death to recognize it. Then the right hand twitches, and he pulls it slowly from its earthen prison, the clumps of earth streaming off it become water in Limbo's chaotic winds. His skeletal hands clutch the stone, like a drowning man, and his eyes flash.
Nameless: Echo: "Know that I have saved your life, Dak'kon, *zerth* of Shra'kt'lor."
Dak'kon: Dak'kon's eyes turn from the stone and flicker over you, and he hisses again, too dry for a moment to muster the words. He blinks, slowly, then speaks, his voice barely above a whisper, but the words are what you wanted to hear. "My... life is yours... until yours is no more..."
Nameless: Close your eyes, return to the present.

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:46 AM

Platter, on Jun 15 2004, 11:37 PM, said:

Anyway, if the Seventh and Eighth Circles are not part of Zerth lore as the previous Six are (as I argue in my previous post), and the Practical Incarnation made Dak'kon's Circle, just where do you think the last two stories came from?

Also note how the narrative suddenly stops at the end of the 6th circle. The last two do not continue the story and are out of place. They are apologetic in nature, when interpreted in the way you explain it to Dak'kon if you have the Wisdom, explaining Zerthimon's actions;

Isn't it more suspicious that the Practical Incarnation would make up the Seventh and Eighth Circles without interpreting them to Dak'kon before they journey to the Fortress of Regrets? :P

Plus the Practical Incarnation's comment: "Perhaps they carry some truth - I know not. I know that they were tedious writings, but the words were enough to give him faith." implies that the Practical Incarnation didn't really understand the writings himself. (Why would he put in the Seventh and Eighth Circles when he himself don't know whether the first Six circles hold truth?) It also implies that the Practical Incarnation believed that the words on the Circle themselves are enough to give Dak'kon faith (thus making up the Seventh and Eighth Circles would be pointless).

Furthermore, it is highly possible for hidden meanings to be within the circle, recall the description:
This small round stone is the "Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon." The Unbroken Circle is a *zerth* religious text, containing teaching of Zerthimon, the founder of the githzerai people. The Circle is made up of a series of interlocking circles that fold out from one another, depending on which branch the reader wishes to follow in the path of teachings... it is said that some zerths spend years pouring over the combinations of the plates, looking for new significance in the teachings.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the statistics of the three incarnations in the Maze of Reflections holds at least some merit (after all it's pointless to have a level 12 fighter with an intelligence of 25). Thus I maintain that, to determine the original Incarnation's identity, all we have to do pour through Planescape history until we find an immensely powerful (and immensely evil) cleric/mage. :P

#71 Dalis'ilhea

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:59 AM

I've read on a few sites that say the he's been a level 24 priest, And I always think where the hell did you come up with that? I'll look for a site that says it

Edited
here
http://torment.db-fo...of/namelessone/

Edited by Dalis'ilhea, 16 June 2004 - 01:01 AM.

I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird

In the wake of destruction progress is made

I am who I am, and none shall change me

#72 The Amazing Maurice

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:54 AM

I've never heard that mentioned in game :huh:

That's probably just a theory by the writers of that article...

I think.

#73 Dalis'ilhea

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 06:16 AM

I just keep thinking,
"I bet the stupid bloody idiots haven't even played the game" is all because there is NO proof that he ever worshiped a god or belief
I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird

In the wake of destruction progress is made

I am who I am, and none shall change me

#74 raptor

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 03:05 PM

not much related but funny fact: Finder Wyvernspur from Forgotten Realms was once banished from Forgotten Realms and into the planes, and stripped of name he was nameless :P of corse not the same but funny nevertheless...

#75 -Quiet Lurker-

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 05:50 PM

Dalis'ilhea, on Jun 16 2004, 06:06 AM, said:

I just keep thinking,
"I bet the stupid bloody idiots haven't even played the game" is all because there is NO proof that he ever worshiped a god or belief

Well, The Transcendent One is a cleric/mage,
Str 19 Int 25
Dex 25 Wis 25
Con 14 Cha 25

Level 22-30 (Depending on Nameless One's level at the confrontation)

Since the Transcendent One learns as the Nameless One learns throughout their innumerable lifetimes, but the Transcendent One does not forget (according to their conversation). The Transcendent One's mage and clerical powers would then stem from the Nameless One.

Since the Transcendent One cannot travel outside the Fortress of Regrets for long, the only way for him to have gained clerical powers is if the Nameless One was once a priest. :)

By the way, the last Guest was me, still a guest, but no longer nameless. :lol:

#76 The Amazing Maurice

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 05:59 PM

Quiet Lurker, on Jun 17 2004, 02:40 AM, said:

By the way, the last Guest was me, still a guest, but no longer nameless. :lol:

Why not register? :)

Interesting points about the TTO - I wonder why you can't become a cleric in game tho?

Something to do with the story? Or (more likely) a practical reason when the game was being developed?

#77 -Notmrt-

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 10:47 PM

good good prod people to register ;)
hehe
we shall never ever know who he was and chances are he was noone we knew

#78 Dalis'ilhea

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 12:40 AM

Here's an idea. He's Darth Vader!!! :D















(yes it is a joke, can't you tell? :huh: Or am I not as funny as I thought :( )
I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird

In the wake of destruction progress is made

I am who I am, and none shall change me

#79 -Notmrt-

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 12:58 AM

Probably but i belive he may infact be terry wogan

#80 raptor

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 10:17 AM

Quote

Interesting points about the TTO - I wonder why you can't become a cleric in game tho?

Something to do with the story? Or (more likely) a practical reason when the game was being developed?


Well i just asume you all have tried to use editors to set TNO t cleric, i have at least failed in all atempts. I can make guesses though :P soulless persons cant be priests/clerics (i belive Vampire is a somewhat exeption, since its a little unclear if they have soul or not depending upon who you speak to). It could also be related to Dak'kon's idea of not *knowing* oneself he is flawed. Could also be that the thing he once did that caused such an uproar to the planes made all gods reject him. Personally i asume the first :P