92 replies to this topic

[Andyr]

One theory was that he was Yemeth, a powerful wizard. Though that's thought to have been a blunder on the part of the design team. Yemeth is mentioned on one of the tomb walls, and The pendent of Yemeth is an unused item.

Another theory (which I prefer, but don't know if it's true) is that TNO is Gith. His crime was the sundering of his race into the Githyanki and Githzerai, causing endless bloodshed. This also explains why you can make a Circle of Zerthimon good enough to fool Dak'Kon.

Or, he could just be some guy... We'll never know.

[The Leveler]

Gith was female. Yemeth was one of the tings TNO was called. Go to www.sorcerers.net, Games, PST, Tips, Tricks and hints. Go to the bottom and get Stories of Torment. Great peice. Has a dialog based PST story, Complete Circle of Zerth, and the same guy's HIstory of the Nameless one. He was not originally a leader. It says a betrayal, a contract. ect. That's in the game. Seems to me he signed off and betrayed something to the Baatezu. Or maybe the theories about the baatezu being just puppets of whatever living beyond the last level, Nessus.

[Thorium Dragon]

Could you point out to me where he said any of that? I can't remember it.

I remember the Lum the Mad reference in his conversation with the Transcendant One (I think the others are there as well). TTO was refering to the fact that he was learning with TNO through all of TNO's adventures, although he hadn't forgotten any of it while TNO had.

My personal theory was that TNO was Alexander the Great. The description of The Gordion Knot just got me thinking how cool that would be.

Edited by Thorium Dragon, 09 May 2004 - 11:03 AM.

[The Amazing Maurice]

"WHEN YOU FOUGHT IN THE BLACK DECADE WAR, ALL YOUR MILITARY KNOWLEDGE WAS CARVED IN MY MIND. WHEN YOU DANCED SORCERIES WITH LUM THE MAD, I LEARNED WITH YOU. ALL YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN, I HAVE *NOT.* THE POWER OVER LIFE AND DEATH IS BUT A MINOR DISPLAY OF MY POWER."

He says that when you goad him about ressurecting your companions.

[The Amazing Maurice]

Gith was female. Yemeth was one of the tings TNO was called. Go to www.sorcerers.net, Games, PST, Tips, Tricks and hints. Go to the bottom and get Stories of Torment. Great peice. Has a dialog based PST story, Complete Circle of Zerth, and the same guy's HIstory of the Nameless one. He was not originally a leader. It says a betrayal, a contract. ect. That's in the game. Seems to me he signed off and betrayed something to the Baatezu. Or maybe the theories about the baatezu being just puppets of whatever living beyond the last level, Nessus.

I always thought, as you say he signed a contract with the Baatezu, changed his mind and went to see Ravel to make him immortal. As he couldn't die he wouldn't go to the Blood War. Hence the reason why he walks into the the pack of fiends at the end.

[Andyr]

Gith was female.

Oops. I do of course mean Zerthimon, not Gith. Gith is still alive (undead), after all.

[The Amazing Maurice]

Yemeth is just another name for TNO, who knows what it means? It is unlikely that we'll find out. Maybe it was just a name thought up by a developer. Though I think it is better that you never find out what TNO's name was, it adds to the greatness of the story.

[Thorium Dragon]

Well, if the person who was the Nameless One studied magic with Lum The Mad, he's probably thousands of years old, judging from the fact that Lum The Mad's machine is in Watcher's Keep, which has stored Demogorgon for how long?

Lum's machine was not in Watcher's Keep from the beginning. Lum's machine found its way into the keep much more recently. Presumably within a few years of the PC's arrival given that a survivor is still alive and ageing normally ouside the machine.

Also, if the machine is moving across time as well as the planes, there is no way to tell how old the machine (and therefore Lum and TNO) is.

[Caswallon]

Hmm... PS:T is way older than ToB.
It was discussed here just a few days ago that Lum the Mad appears in official publications.
I don't think that it makes sense to construct relative times between the various IE games. Things like Aphril's vision of TNO in BG2 are references in games, not something that establishes a timeline.
So PS:T as well as ToB throw in Lum's name... I don't think that leads us anywhere.

The quote of the Transcendent One above doesn't refer to the life of the First Incarnation, imho, but to the many incarnations that followed.
As for Yemeth, I'm with Maurice - just names. Adahn, Yemeth... whatever.
Somewhere I even read the theory that TNO never had a name, because when he learns about it, he says, wondering, "*That* was my name all along?", or something like that.

I don't remember much, but I also thought that the Nameless One did something horrible (betraying someone, for instance - Morte?), became afraid of dying and paying the price, and went to Ravel to become immortal. I vaguely seem to recall that in the vision of his meeting with Ravel (the first one?), he was leading a group of Blood War soldiers across the Gray Wastes... though I'm not sure anymore whether that really referred to his first incarnation seeking immortality, or one of the following.

[The Amazing Maurice]

I was looking through the dialouges with the 3rd Incarnation and found something that I hadn't noticed before - TNO went to find Ravel out wanting to repent his sins, not just being afraid of death...

3rd Inc - "Because if we die, *truly* die..." The incarnation looks up at you, and his eyes are like steel. "Death's kingdom will *not* be paradise, not for us. If you spoke to these others that were here, know that a fraction of the evil of their lives is but a drop of water compared to the evil of mine. That life, that one life, even *without* the thousands of others, has given a seat in the Lower Planes for eternity."

TNO - "But you seem so much... calmer. More well-intentioned."

3rd Inc - "I became that way, yes. Because for me..." His voice takes on a strange echo. "It is *regret* that may change the nature of a man." He sighs. "But it was too late. I was already damned."

3rd Inc - "I found that changing my nature was not enough. I needed more time, and I needed more life. So I came to the greatest of the Gray Sisters and asked her for a boon - to try and help me live long enough to rectify all the damage I had done. To make me immortal."

[Longinus]

If you defeat the robot prostitute (I believe her name was Dolora) at chess your mind races back to a memory of the Blood War in which your first incarnation claims yet another victory on the field of battle. My impression of the Nameless One was of a general and mage who was so brilliant that he managed to survive the unspeakable horrors of the Blood War for the entire duration of his contract with ease. The two devils in the Smoldering Corpse Bar *know you*, but they refuse to reveal anything about your true identity.

If you construct the dream catcher (I can't remember it's exact name), you visit Ravel's realm where there are dozens of corpses lying in front of you. Ravel's voice then says something along the lines of "I've lost count of the number of people you've killed".

The first incarnation was powerful enough to seek out Ravel in the first place, so I doubt he wielded the powers of anything less than an arch-mage.

Edited by Longinus, 11 May 2004 - 12:58 AM.

[The Amazing Maurice]

If you defeat the robot prostitute (I believe her name was Dolora) at chess your mind races back to a memory of the Blood War in which your first incarnation claims yet another victory on the field of battle. My impression of the Nameless One was of a brilliant general and mage who was so brilliant that he survived the horrors of the Blood War for the duration of his contract. The two devils in the Smoldering Corpse Bar *know you*, but they refuse to reveal anything about your true identity.

If you construct the dream machine (I can't remember it's exact name), you visit Ravel's realm where there are dozens of corpses lying in front of you and Ravel's voice says something along the lines of "I've lost count of the number of people you've killed".

The first incarnation was powerful enough to seek out Ravel in the first place, so I doubt he wielded the powers of anything less than an Arch Mage.

That memory dosn't say that the battle is taking place in the blood war though. I agree that the orignal NO was probably a arch-mage as he studied with Lum before he had even met Ravel...

[Longinus]

That memory dosn't say that the battle is taking place in the blood war though.

The symbol of Torment tattooed onto the Nameless One is the symbol of a flag seen in the Blood War battle that rages during the ending cinematic. The way I see it, the Nameless One returns to where his problems all began. He doesn't even fight his fate; he just pries a mace out of a wagon and walks onto the field of battle.

Edited by Longinus, 10 May 2004 - 03:52 AM.

[The Amazing Maurice]

That memory dosn't say that the battle is taking place in the blood war though.

The symbol of Torment tattooed onto the Nameless One is the symbol of a flag seen in the Blood War battle that rages during the ending cinematic. The way I see it, the Nameless One returns to where his problems all began. He doesn't even fight his fate; he just pries a mace out of a wagon and walks onto the field of battle.

True... Maybe the blood war theory is possible - though Fhjull does not recognise TNO, he says that he would've remembered the scarring. If he was in the blood war, I wonder what happened to make him repent? Also Morte had a hand in killing TNO, though I do not know if that was a Incarnation or the original. Shame we'll never find out.

[Longinus]

I, too, am curious about what drove the Nameless One's original incarnation to seek redemption. How can someone cursed with the blackest of hearts suddenly have a change of heart? Even Ravel couldn't figure out the answer to that question. He must've seen the consequences of his actions with his own two eyes.

Still, I'd rather ask questions than know all the answers, wouldn't you?

Edited by Longinus, 10 May 2004 - 10:43 AM.