12 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

You reported yourself that +3 weapons *already* hurt my version of the GWW. Or did I misunderstand?

Ups, it was a misunderstanding here, Littiz, sorry for that. All started with Maestro asking how the usual GWW should be (and it was my fault, because I deviated the debate a bit, I apologize for that) : my replies were for this question.
But, until now, I replied relying only upon the info from forums and the mod's docs, which was not quite fair from me. So I fully tested your GWW form. What were the conclusions :
1. First test : two companions attacked the GWW with Gram sword of the Grief and the Ravager. It was as if they hit him with sticks.
2. Second test : GWW against Improved Firkraag (and the GWW had no support from other party members). GWW destroyed Firkraag without taking even a scratch. Firkraag's claws were useless against GWw. Firkraag was able to damage him a little with his fire breath, but GWW regeneration rate was to fast for him.
3. Third test : GWW (alone) against Improved Abazigal. GWW destroyed the human form of Abazigal (who was enable to hurt him with his +5 sword). The dragon form of Abazigal damaged him a little with electrical attacks, but again GWW regenerated too fast. But, also, GWW was not able to damage too much the dragon form of Abazigal. So, they harassed each other almost 20 minutes, until I got bored and I gave up.
4. Fourth test : GWW against Improved Demogorgon. Indeed, the Demogorgon was the only one able to kill the GWW, but with a wave of spells, not with physical attacks.
Yet, I don't know how the GWW would do against enemies with draining attacks (like vampires or illithids). I forgot to test that too, but I think it's enough.
So, the weapons of all those bosses were completely ineffective against GWW.

Now, let's analyze what options you have :
1. Change some weapons to be cold-iron or weapons. In my opinion, it's not a good idea. It does not make sense to create a immunity, and after that you change the weapons to pierce it.
2. Make GWW immune only to +2 weapons. That would be a better solution, but it has a disadvantage : you did a nice work with this immunity, and this alteration would ruin it.
3. A third solution (which I think it's the best) : edit the GWW shapechange so it would last only 30 seconds (or 40, or more, or how long you think it's better). The main problem was that the Shapeshifter could remain in GWW form a VERY long time (by the way, how long this shapechange lasts ?). This solution has the advantage that the GWW would remain as it is, you would preserve your work, but the game won't be so unbalanced.
4. The last option : let the mod as it is. You have this option too, but remember that the GWW is more powerful even than the Raveger itself.

You choose what option you wish, because, even if I suggested the third one, I don't know how much work it involves. And, by the way, the test were made without the ability Feral Spirit.

[Littiz]

Ok then, I'll change it to immunity vs +2 or less.

[Caedwyr]

Nice testing and a good change. I'm happy with the final product (Littiz's change that is). Thanks for the input Feanor.

[Trouveur]

Finally my suggestion for the GWW was a good one.  
And about the werewolf? Will he still lose his normal weapon immunity? I fear that he will be almost useless in the first part of SoA. More importantly, werewolf have this immunity normaly, so why not the shapeshifter?

[Littiz]

The starting GWW is immune to normal weapons though, and even the lesser form regenerates somewhat now, so I think they won't be useless
They're also immune to sleep (ehm! )

[Baltrek]

They're also immune to sleep

LOL, I thought watching her get up and lie down for the duration of a mephits prismatic spray was pretty funny.

[Schatten]

as i said i am playing right now bg1 with the shapechange fix. but there are some problems. first i must say i have no exp with bg1. never played it through. just 3times to the half or so and i have no exp with druids.
so i noticed that the werewolf can mow down everything. and i think the noobs there dont have magical weapons and if they have i have regen. no problems so far. the implementation of werewolfs is right but the balance is far from good.
then the werewolf in bg2. he is useless because everyone and their brother has magical weapons. this leads to the greater werewolf. i couldnt find pnp info about him. but littiz says he is immune to +2 and lower. not great. and he has a good regen. but in tob i think he isnt that great. or am i wrong??
what i think would be better some "steps" on the course of lvling like valen has. not 3 steps (werewolf/greater werewolf/hla shape ability) perhaps 2 or 3 more.


btw a mod question: i planned long time ago a shapeshifter like the beast from 3ed who can transform into everything he has killed and is in +-lvl10 or +-lvl5 range. do i have to do this with set str/con ect and give ability script? that would be alot of work.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I think that Littiz could answer this in more detail & you can look yourself in the bugs thread to see what he said.

However my understanding is that the Shapeshifter will be changed in the next release, 1.2 or whatever it's going to be. The normal werewolf form will no longer be immune to normal weapons. That alone ought to make the BGI experience a *lot* more balanced.

And they have already implimented something like the stages you posess.

You start with Werewolf form.

At 13th level you get Greater Werewolf form.

Then as a HLA you can pick Feral Spirit which upgrades both of the previous forms.

Let me say that Greater Werewolf from after Feral Spirit is a *lot*! It has nearly 100% resistance to every kind of elemental damage, regeneration, great AC, lots of HP, and can fight well. Immunity to +2 or less weapons may not be all that but at this level these guys don't need it.

Don't forget too that you can cast Iron Skins prior to shifting and then you get the first bunch of hits free. Iron Skins + AC + Resistances alone will keep you from being hurt in many fights.

[Schatten]

well, i am the guest.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Just remember that Shapeshifter Druids are not the same as real Werewolves.

[Schatten]

afaik the druid has lycanthropie and is a werewolf. could not find infos in the complete druid handbook but thats what i know.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

afaik the druid has lycanthropie and is a werewolf. could not find infos in the complete druid handbook but thats what i know.

1. The Complete Druid's Handbook's Shapeshifter Druid is not at all the same as Biowares. The PnP Shapeshifter can shift into almost anything. Bio created the BGII version on their own.

2. Refinements isn't really about making things the same as PnP. TG & Littiz have both posted about this in other threads but feel free to ask again.

3. The magical process by which BG Shapeshifter Druids infect themselves doesn't nessisarly produce a 'natural' werewolf. To me it's one of the great ironies of the kit. They are willing to 'bend the rules' to get closer to nature.

Edited by Rathwellin the Bard, 07 May 2004 - 12:46 PM.