63 replies to this topic

[fallen_demon]

It was an enjoyable romance, but imoen just didn't seem in character. I paticularly didn't like how she couldn't seem to take a joke, as she definately seems like one of the last characters i would expect to accidently take someone to seriously. a number of the 'cn' replies were stuff i might joke to with friends, but imoen would only react as if i really meant it and my alignment would switch.

i also didn't like the alignment shift for acting crazy to get into spellhold, it was unfitting for the mod and annoying.

[Gothic Rose]

I'm still in the middle of the Immie Romance, but I wanted to mention that you simply -must- have her steal something. It happens in the Romance, she steals a bracelet from a fat old merchant who wants to charge an outrageous sum. Said item is pretty powerful - but that's not necessary. I just loved the fact that she used Charname as a distraction to pocket the bracer. It was a laugh riot.

[Rei]

Well. I have 1 post, as you can see, because I created an account here to respond to this topic and this topic alone. Simply because, I was a pretty big fan and very involved in Lord M's mod, so I think I can offer some of my own thoughts as well.

Right:

I think, despite some of the sillier/nonsensicle/crazy dialogue options, that Lord M really captured alot of Imoens spirit in the way he depicted the character. Some people may be turned off by some of the more crazy dialogue options, however it could be said that he certainly didn't have to put them in there, but he DID, as well as the normal fare of selectible dialogue. It was there, because Lord M placed heavy emphasis on allowing you, the player, to act however you wished to act in the relationship. Be it serious and solemn one moment to completely Chaotic Neutral the next. It could be also said that some of the Evil options involving brutality were a bit over the top, and in some cases even I would agree(I never selected them), and some of them were just uneccisary. Tho once again, the options were simply there, and you by no means HAD to select them. You were never subjected to anything more than a simple "grumpy" or "mean" response. The only time you saw those dialogue options were if you explored them, and if you didn't like it, then you just didn't select them. The options aren't hurting anything by being there, really.

So I'd say that Lord M's desire to keep every imaginable dialogue option open to the player was a good thing, even if it was silly or dumb or crazy sometimes. Be as serious or not as you'd like.

As for exploring dialogue options that would slowly 'Morph' Imoen into a slave-like character through manipulation. I think the reason you don't see that is for two reasons:

A. It would require alot of extra code. It would almost, in essence, be like creating two completely different romances. One 'normal', and one following the more evil 'manipulative' path. Although it wouldn't be a bad thing to have that, I can see where it would be a turn off for Lord M. It's simply easier to just make the Evil options something that is explored once in a while or only once in a very brutal fashion. You could be simply grumpy and/or mean to Imoen every once in a while, in a typical headstrong Evil way, without ending the romance or completely turning Imoen off. And Evil character could romance Immy.

B. I don't think it's really in Imoens character to be controlled. She may, in the Mod, be very fragile emotionally, as is evident, but Lord M made sure to put alot of emphasis on the fact that Imoen was very strong of will at the same time. In BG1, and the normal BG2 Imoen NPC, Imoen comes off as a sort of carefree, fragile, young spirited character.. In Lord M's depication, she is very much changed, having been through many hardships and seen terrible things, she has matured alot, and is not so much the carefree girl she was from BG1. On the outside, she is still energetic and "Imoen", but on the inside, is a deep wound that will likely never heal completely and has left emotional scars on Imoen. That is very much at the core of Lord M's depictation of Imoen, and I think it's for that reason that Imoen is neither fragile nor naive enough to let herself be manipulated by the PC. She has too much newfound connection to the Bhaal taint and has matured too much to be that weak.

As for some of the more specific incidents, such as the Drow incident, or a few dialogues that made Imoen and/or the PC(Or other NPCs) just act completely goofball.. I think these were good additions. Imoen, at heart, is a very lighthearted and easy going character, and I think she's prone to inducing these types of situations. I didn't find anything to be over the top or out of place in that sense.

As for the sex, I think the person earlier in the thread said it best. Imoen and the PC may be super horny and have sex mindlessly through alot of the dialogues.. But if you think about it, when people fall in love, they tend to become mindless sex machines for the first several months of the relationship. This is just a way of life. Imoen and the PC have had feelings for eachother that have grown over time and they are finally exploring the sexual nature of their relationship for the first time.. Naturally, they are going to be horny little bastards. But as was also stated, this issue is actually addressed in the Mod as well.

On the topic of Imoens 'Lesbianism'.. If you really listen to the Dialogue, Imoen isn't saying she's a lesbian.. She says that she was sexually interested in a (Nymph I think? Or one of the more beautiful races) and that the incident more or less confused her as to her sexuality, but she never really just comes out and says she's a lesbian. Just that she needed to find the right person. If anything, I would say Imoen is Bisexual. Ultimately, I think it's up to the person creating the mod to have free liscence of the characters personality. I think that goes for alot of the made up aspects of Lord M's mod, or any mod for that matter.

The cussing I found to be appropriate for the most part. Like I said, Lord M's Imoen is a little darker and emotionally scarred.. I think the occational bit of profanity is perfectly acceptable concidering what Imoen has gone through.

The dream sequences were done very well too. They link you to Imoens character and give you better insight to her inner nature. I think it lets you understand her better and gives you more context to create an Image of who Imoen is.

Cons:

The brutality around every corner. Even I, a big fan of Lord M's mod, found some of these to be a little excessive at times.

A few dialogues were a bit out of place, even for the comical nature that Imoen often brings. But I found these to be far and in-between everything else and not even detract from the mod much at all.

Conclusion:

Lord M did a good job of capuring Imoens Spirit in the mod in the setting which he created. You have to concider that Lord M's depication of the events surrounding Imoen are different than the original one. He changes the story slightly to mould Imoen into the character he wished to express. Imoen is still very much Imoen in the mod, but she is a different Imoen. A matured and maybe slightly darker Imoen, who can still have a good time and laugh.

Ultimately, I think it was a great mod, and I'd put cudos to anyone who can realize Imoens character to the fullest like I feel Lord M did.

[Darnoc]

The greatest problem, as I perceive it, with the Imoen Romance Mod (apart of being the mod with the most char-development in my opinion ) is this: The dialogue options were still not differing enough and some of the things which happened I wouldn't have done this way.

First, in my opinion, Imoen is a very strong personality. Just the fact that she survived all the things Irenicus put her through and she is still able to continue fighting after losing her soul proves it. So it would be wrong to portray her as weak or calling for help. The experiences would probably change her from a happy-easy-going personality into a bitter-melancholic. Of course, all the bitterness and hate in her would sooner or later swap over, but not right after she has been rescued. It takes some time to stomach and process everything which happened to her. So I guess she would be very silent and introverted after she has been rescued. Some time later she might talk to the main-char about it, if the main-char has been nice and understanding with her. You would then have the choice to either ignore her (which results in her getting more and more bitter, until she is consumed by her hate and rage and she probably turns evil), to be understanding but helpless (which results in her thinking fondly of you, but not helping her much to regain her old personality; she will become neutral and a harper, trying fight for balance, very much like Jaheira) or you can try to help her, try to heal her shattered personality (if you do it right, she'll lighten up and eventually become your friendly-optimistic sister again).

So, as you can see, I suggest that her whole personality can change, based on what you decide to do.

I also thought that the evil conversation choices were much too limited. An evil person could be nice to Imoen, but in fact would just want to use her for his/her own purposes. On the other hand, a good person could be rough on Imoen, telling her to cope with her experiences (kind of "We all are suffering, so stop your whining!"). I could imagine a paladin would act that way (Keldorn always seemed to me to be the type for such a thing).

My conclusion is therefore that the developement of your relationship with Imoen should be a lot more complex.

Also, Imoen could act as kind of consciousness for the group. She is your sister and knows you best, so she probably tells you her opinion of your actions and will suggest to you how to react to a certain situation. In the normal game, it's always the main-char who decides (I'm the boss, so follow me!). Why should Imoen just say "Yes, of course, I do as you wish!"? I rather picture her as a person who would speak her mind and tell the main-char what she thinks. She should be a lot more active.

[Kaeloree]

I've never played the Imoen Romance, but I think I will sometime in the future. Anyway, in reply to Darnoc's comment about Imoen being silent & stuff after being rescued:

I think she would be overly cheerful, over-the-top. She would put a happy, cheerful mask on, wanting everyone to think she was okay. Everyone seems concerned about her - even through her pain she wouldn't want them to suffer more. So on goes the giggly slightly hysterical mask!

She would probably THEN go silent for a while. Or, you could ask her to talk to you. Thats one thing I think would be brilliant - a selection of dialogues you can initiate by forcetalking her.

so, uh, thats my 2 cents. I may post another 4 in the future when I play the IR ;P

[Kulyok]

What I liked and what I disliked in Imoen Romance:

+ - Brutality options;
- - Every brutality option led to Imoen "winning", i.e. turning into a demon and killing PC, running away, etc.

+ - BG2 style of conversation, mostly. Not PS:T.
- - The amount of action text is still overwhelming

+ - Imoen's character is more or less recognizable in general
- - In quite a few encounters, the reactions, I suspect, are not Imoen's, but rather the author's

+ - The mod is concentrated on Imoen-PC, not Imoen-other NPC, because with 16 NPC to have the half of them will be OOC for sure;
- - Imoen-Aerie "friendship" is done rather poorly.

[Western Paladin]

I'll admit I never completed Mirrabbo's Imoen Romance, but there's a very clear and simple reason for it. I didn't think it sounded like Imoen. She said things I wouldn't have imagined her saying. For my money, the BG1 NPC Project and Pocket Plane's banter pack did a much better job of finding Imoen's voice.

[Darnoc]

And then I thought the part were she admitted to being raped was a little...forced, maybe? I don't know, It just didn't seem to fit. Most of her dialouges, now that I think about it, didn't.

Let me put it this way:

You and Imoen grew up together, you are siblings and know each other better than anyone else. Although I could imagine Imoen wouldn't like you if you were evil. In my opinion an evil char couldn't get a working relationship with Imoen, unless he hid his evilness veeerrrryyy cleverly. She may be a mischievous personality, but she certainly isn't evil and would not approve of such actions. That's why I assume in what I write further on that the main-char is good.

Anyway, back to "forced" dialogues. If she is going to talk to someone, she is going to talk to you and not anyone else. I know that traumatized people often hide their experiences in a shell and need some work in order to bring up certain subjects. Often a lot of work, because they burried those experienced deep inside of them.

But you mustn't forget that Imoen is not a child, but an adult person (although she sometimes doesn't really act like one). Being adult means that one learns to cope with things. Yes, one can break on some things, but one has also learned that there are other people to help. A child doesn't know this and that's the reaon why it's so difficult to get children talking about their experiences. A child can actually hide itself in a dream world created by itself. Adult persons lose this ability mostly and are more able to face reality as reality (although we all see reality a little different; sometimes horrible errors in what we believe to be witnessing can occur). There are of course exception (psychopaths). But I wouldn't say that Imoen is a psychopath.

Now Imoen definitely had some horrible, traumatizing experiences, yes. They probably have altered her personality totally (one thing I hold against the creators of the IR). But she knows that her sibling is there and wishes to actually help. Imoen knows that she can rely on her sibling. And that's why she will come to the main-char with her problems, as would the main-char with his/her problems. Because they both know that the other cares. And that is the beginning of a psychological healing process, which will still take a lot of time, of course.

In my opinion, Imoen would have changed totally after her experiences. She will not only have physical, but also psychological scars that won't leave. The creators of IR haven't taken that into account enough, I think. In IR Imoen's too soon her old self again. One does not simply go back to be one's old self after such experiences. Healing a psyche is a long and weary process and an understanding and caring person helps a lot.

Now there are only two ways I see how a romance with Imoen could work: Either we have a really good and caring character, who really wishes to help and heal Imoen's psyche and who begins this slow and tedious process by being there and listening to what Imoen has to tell (and believe me, if something really bad happened to you, you will be very glad for someone you know you can trust and you know will understand you; I can tell from experience, although the experiences I speak of aren't as bad as Imoen's). Or an evil, but very intelligent character could act as if he/she is actually caring and bind Imoen to him/herself, making Imoen a psychological slave of him/her, manipulating and abusing (psychologically and probably also physically later on) Imoen all the way. That would truly be evil and those options were the ones I missed in the IR-dialogues.

You think Imoen is no longer imoenish? Of course she isn't, every person who went through such horrible things would no longer be the same. So don't go expecting that Imoen would always be her old cheerful self.

Edited by Darnoc, 20 November 2005 - 02:32 PM.

[Kaeloree]

What Darnoc said seems right on the money to me.

[Kulyok]

You think Imoen is no longer imoenish? Of course she isn't, every person who went through such horrible things would no longer be the same. So don't go expecting that Imoen would always be her old cheerful self.

I strongly disagree. Human psyche is a very flexible thing. A person can bear (and stay sane, and return to their own self eventually) quite a lot. At the very least, it depends on person and their personal experiences.

[Darnoc]

I strongly disagree. Human psyche is a very flexible thing. A person can bear (and stay sane, and return to their own self eventually) quite a lot. At the very least, it depends on person and their personal experiences.

Your personality changes and developes all the time. Your personality is shaped by your experiences all the time. A changed personality doesn't imply insanity, there are many different kinds of sane personalities. Our personalities are changing, we aren't the persons we were a year before. The stronger (I guess you get my meaning) an experience, the more the personality is affected and changed by it.

Now Imoen went through some very strong experiences and such experiences always have an effect. Not necessarily the effect of driving someone to insanity, but they will certainly change a person. Perhaps even to the better.

If I would write the story (which in fact I do right now; I'm working on a novelization based on my ideas how things should work; and some of those ideas are quite different from what Black Isle or the people of IR imagined), Imoen would be a more serious person after what she went through. Later on she might change to a person who actually could care for the suffering of other people, she would try to help those who had suffered like herself. But only if she first managed to cope with what she had experienced. If she didn't learn to cope with it, she would become a very bitter personality, first only wanting revenge for what had been done to her, but it wouldn't stop there. The anger and frustration would load off onto other persons. Perhaps she would first want to destroy evil by growing powerful enough, but in the end she would become the very thing she first tried to destroy, consumed by hate, anger and bitterness.

I guess one could also come up with different variations...

But you get my meaning: Everything changes us and the more traumatizing the experience, the more we are changed by it. Nothing ever stays the same, the psyche is dynamic. As is the universe as a whole, by the way.


Lol, don't start a discussion about such matters with someone who has psychology, philosophy and pedagogics as a major like myself... unless you have it too

Of course I've got the advantage that my psychology teacher is actually practicing psychology, she has her own practice and works mostly with children, although she has some adult patients (mainly us ) . That means we get a lot of practical exercise on changing personalities

("That picture was drawn by a patient of mine, in what state is her/his personality?" - typical lesson goes like that and she tells a lot of stories of her patients, what makes the whole matter really interesting; it's actually about real humans, you know, not just theory; practice is the best teacher is my and her belief).

Edited by Darnoc, 21 November 2005 - 02:32 AM.

[Kulyok]

Your personality changes and developes all the time. Your personality is shaped by your experiences all the time. A changed personality doesn't imply insanity, there are many different kinds of sane personalities. Our personalities are changing, we aren't the persons we were a year before. The stronger (I guess you get my meaning) an experience, the more the personality is affected and changed by it.

A well-known statement I certainly agree with - though it sounds more like a template, describing an internal state, rather than a common behavioural pattern. Even brushing aside the fact that many are not all too eager to "let it out", so to say, a human mind is all too eager to forget certain experiences, and thus, to an impartial observer, or even to themselves, "returning to their former self".

Of course, since the process of growing, maturing and changing with time still takes place, regardless of the previous traumatic experience, we may say that rape/death/serious trauma/etc changed the person entirely, but I am afraid that in many cases, if not most, people see what they want to see. Again, I consider human psyche to be very flexible and adapting.

I guess one could also come up with different variations...

But indeed.

Lol, don't start a discussion about such matters with someone who has psychology, philosophy and pedagogics as a major like myself... unless you have it too

From my own years of studying psychology, philosophy and pedagogics in Moscow University, I found my soon-to-be colleagues to be rather more... tactful.


Since you seem to be focused on Imoen, and I do not have a strong vision of her personality - or, at least, I am regarding her with such intense dislike that I cannot form a more or less objective view - I suggest that we end this particular discussion, since I cannot offer you any more information on Imoen; I only could offer my opinion on the controversial topic of post-traumatic experiences, which I did.

[SimDing0]

If she didn't learn to cope with it, she would become a very bitter personality, first only wanting revenge for what had been done to her, but it wouldn't stop there. The anger and frustration would load off onto other persons. Perhaps she would first want to destroy evil by growing powerful enough, but in the end she would become the very thing she first tried to destroy, consumed by hate, anger and bitterness.

While traumatic events obviously have a certain impact upon anybody's personality, I think you're overstating their ability to turn it into something completely random and unrelated. Portrayal of Imoen as someone tainted by her experiences but attempting to meander through with her previous light-hearted outlook would seem rather more plausible.

Lol, don't start a discussion about such matters with someone who has psychology, philosophy and pedagogics as a major like myself... unless you have it too

I find claims like this tend to weaken any argument. Somebody with real understanding of a subject can argue convincingly without needing to resort to "I know best!" And the notion that you're just that much better that none of us should disagree just makes me laugh.

[Archmage Silver]

Lol, don't start a discussion about such matters with someone who has psychology, philosophy and pedagogics as a major like myself... unless you have it too

I find claims like this tend to weaken any argument. Somebody with real understanding of a subject can argue convincingly without needing to resort to "I know best!" And the notion that you're just that much better that none of us should disagree just makes me laugh.

Have to agree with you here, Sim. A sneer is what that kind of comments get from me usually. Or a laugh, depends on my mood.

[Darnoc]

I find claims like this tend to weaken any argument. Somebody with real understanding of a subject can argue convincingly without needing to resort to "I know best!" And the notion that you're just that much better that none of us should disagree just makes me laugh.

If you were indeed so better, you should recognize a joke or a jokingly statement when it appears . Or perhaps Swiss humour is a little different than other humor. I just know that we Swiss are regarded rather a little... suspiciously when it comes to humor. Some say that we don't have any, but that isn't true. It's just that we tend to mock either ourselves or others and that we don't tend to make really laughable humor, just a little smile should be activated and this only if you are actually sensitive enough to those kinds of comments.

Or, as a Swiss politician once put it: "Some people say we don't have any humor. But we don't think that this is a laughing matter."

Or a laugh, depends on my mood.

Hear, hear, finally someone who actually understands! *Hands the Nobelprize for Humorology to Archmage*

Portrayal of Imoen as someone tainted by her experiences but attempting to meander through with her previous light-hearted outlook would seem rather more plausible.

Interesting theory, but you don't state any arguments for it. So if you could kindly elaborate some more.

Since one should never tell anybody to do something without doing it yourself first, I will explain why I believe that you are wrong:

Experience. I know personally several persons who went through traumatic experiences as adults and who were totally changed. Since I don't wish to reveal the whole history of my life, my relatives and some persons I know, you'll just have to accept my word of honor that this is true.

I met two groups of people: Those who grow stronger through suffering and those who are destroyed. It souds cruel, but that's the way it is. Those who grew stronger changed to more self-certain and determined personalities. Those who were destroyed turned into passive, depressive personalities who had already given up.

Most of the later kind I met while working in several factories, storehouses and similar places. The people there had given up on life and on society. They no longer believed that anything would or even could change, they had lost faith into everything and just kept on going on somehow, dragging themselves further on, miserable day after miserable day. That's reality for a great deal of people, although some would never openly reveal it to others. The ones who actually talked were those who had sunk lowest.

I met a man who had once a good job, earned a good salary and had a good life. Then the company bought computers and his job became obsolet. He now works in a storehouse and his job is shit and he knows it. He knows exactly that he will have this shitty job until he is retired and that once he is retired, he'll live on almost nothing at all. He hates everything and keeps on cursing and blaming everything just for the sake of blaming someone for his misery. Once he told me that he had stopped reading the newspapers or watch the news, because he couldn't stand it anymore, seeing all those rich assholes with all the things they got. And what do they get those things for? Are they any better than he is? Life's not fair. Life changes young, promising people into bitter, hateful persons who barely have a life, more animal or machine than human.

Now this wasn't really a traumatic experience, but still it shows how personalities can change. I know other, more traumatic examples but those I won't reveal, because they are highly personal and I don't think it would be kind of me to reveal the histories of certain persons I know, betraying the trust they have put into me by telling me the things they did.

There are others, of course. There are those who fight on, keep on struggling somehow and don't give up. They are few and some make it and some don't, probably depends on their original strength and the difficulty of the situations they are faced with. The world has a habit of destroying idealism quite fast, though.

Even brushing aside the fact that many are not all too eager to "let it out", so to say, a human mind is all too eager to forget certain experiences, and thus, to an impartial observer, or even to themselves, "returning to their former self".

You do have a point. But don't forget that this is only what surfaces, inside they might actually be a totally different person, they just put on their "social mask", trying to keep on as they had before, but actually their real self is something different.

Certain situations can reveal the true self of those changed persons. Either under great emotional stress, like anger, frustration, worry (when a normal person no longer can hold on to a self-created "social mask") or when a certain trust or relationship exists between two persons. If a deep emotional bondage exists between persons (not just a shallow "social contact", I mean something like a real comradeship, friendship or love), it is difficult to keep on a "social mask" when being together with the other person. Most times persons in such a relationship don't even want to keep this mask, since they feel the necessity to show their true face or it is simply not possible, because they both know each other to well. It can happen, though, that if one person wishes to hide their true self, they cut off such a relationship, because closeness would reveal their fake. This will trigger a response from the other person in most cases, because he/she feels that something is wrong and that the other person tries to hide something. Depending on the personality, the reaction can be quite different. Some might break off the relationship entirely, some try to find out what's going on etc.

Of course, since the process of growing, maturing and changing with time still takes place, regardless of the previous traumatic experience, we may say that rape/death/serious trauma/etc changed the person entirely, but I am afraid that in many cases, if not most, people see what they want to see. Again, I consider human psyche to be very flexible and adapting.

That's why it is so changeable. The human psyche adapts itself to survive. If a more aggressive personality is needed to survive what is coming, the person either changes or dies. A person who has experienced something traumatic could assemble hate, frustration and anger and then canalize all this onto something else. That is a way of psychological survival. The psyche of the person changes in order to not break and die.

Since you seem to be focused on Imoen, and I do not have a strong vision of her personality - or, at least, I am regarding her with such intense dislike that I cannot form a more or less objective view - I suggest that we end this particular discussion, since I cannot offer you any more information on Imoen; I only could offer my opinion on the controversial topic of post-traumatic experiences, which I did.

Well, science hasn't brought us as far that we are able to discuss matters of taste. But feel free to share your expertise, it is certainly appreciated by me if you elaborate some more. One can always learn more.

[SimDing0]

Interesting theory, but you don't state any arguments for it. So if you could kindly elaborate some more.

It's the characterisation of Imoen we're already presented with. The lack of any banter whatsoever in SoA isn't helpful, but based on what we see in ToB it's the impression given-- and she's certainly not the vengeful, murderous character that you portray. The personality that's actually there already is always going to trump whatever psychological argument you offer to the contrary. If I've undergone a traumatic event, then fine, you might be able to pull out any number of studies showing how people typically react, but it won't impact on how I actually do respond, and similarly, it doesn't impact on how Imoen's handling of the situation is written.

[Darnoc]

it doesn't impact on how Imoen's handling of the situation is written.

But that's the whole point of everything I've been saying: Imoen's personality has been developed wrong by the creators of BGII and the IR. I disagree with both and would have done it all differently. Not necessarily a vengeful or eventually evil personality, but it might lead to that, if the main character treats Imoen in a certain way that strengthens such characteristics. It might also lead to something very differently, the possibilities should be very variable and differing from each other.

As I said, character development should be a lot more complex and that counts also for other chars, not only Imoen. The main-char isn't bad with all the choices he/she's got, but all the others... The problem is probably just the tons of scripting such a complex character development as I would like it would require. It's probably just impossible. Well, perhaps not impossible, but it would take years.

But of course I see it a little differently, being a writer means that character development is the Alpha and Omega of everything I do (because a story rises or falls with the believability of its characters). Game Developers have to set other priorities there.

Edited by Darnoc, 21 November 2005 - 01:44 PM.

[the Wingless Wonder]

I just thought I'd remind you that speculation about Imoen's possible personality isn't really necessary, since whatever you were "supposed" to do, there is no absolute certainty that "you" ever hung out with her that much after leaving Candlekeep. I have never had her along in BG1, since I found her (and just about everyone else's) speech too annoying there, but I have a crush on her in BG2. And though I lean towards the evil style of play, I find the Romance's "bad" dialogue options way too much. Why would I need options for trying to kill or rape Imoen, or any other NPC?

My evil inclinations follow from the general "goodness" of the game structure, where you're forced to do everything for everyone else. You're not helping the elves to liberate Suldytown, you're doing it for them whether you like to or not, and it's the same elsewhere. People ask for your help, but it always ends up with you doing all the work.

But I still like the Romance for several reasons. The dreams are great, especially the first (the last, on the other hand, is far too long). The music is good, and the banter is mostly good - except for the opaque options where a few words send Imoen packing, and it is a bit strange that you can't make a joke without her getting furious. Overall, however, I like the mod.

End of rambling, time to go to the pub.