175 replies to this topic

[Schatten]

this way you get a few beatings before you are immune to +4 attacks.
otherway the enemies are slashing you even though you are immune and dont get it that they dont hurt you.
and on top you are invis for 4 rounds.
but maybe i am overdoing it.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The extra time would hugely increase the odds of the ability getting disrupted before it 'went off' ... in other words it could never be used safely in combat. You could only use it tactically to go Etherial before combat and then rush in.

[T.G.Maestro]

Strangely, I'm on Rathwellin's side this time . I think the loss of innate abilities for 4 rounds compensate for the bonuses. And some creatures can still detect and attack the monk if they are using scripts - for example Illasera had no problems with locating me and swarming me with her arrows (which are +5 arrows of course)...

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 18 May 2004 - 06:29 AM.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Strangely, I'm on Rathwellin's side this time .

for example Illasera had no problems with locating me and swarming me with her arrows (which are +5 arrows of course)...

Hey! Where can *my* archer get some +5 arrows?!?!?!

[T.G.Maestro]

I think she uses her special Bhaalpowers to enchant every single arrow she fires. The bow she drops after slain is a simple magical bow, while the one she holds has at least 20 effects... the same goes for the +3 arrows she uses.
Now back to topic (slaps himself) !

[Jinnai]

Insignificance
With proper and undisturbed concentration a monk can slip into a state where he becomes nearly non-existant for its surroundings, as if he would be invisible. Opponents will ignore the monk even if they stand beside him. While in this state, he can explore hostile areas, regenerate or heal himself without being noticed or attacked. Any offensive action from the monk brakes the effect of this ability. Insignificance lasts 1 turn.

I think this would be better if the length was increased, but certain enimies were immune to this (the more perceptive creatures/beings) or maybe they (and only they) just get a wisdom check to see if they still notice him. Well maybe this ability couldn't be done while someone is actively beating you up (or atleast not guaranteed). Like a wizard casting a spell, but with a short casting time, say 1.

I think 1 turn for every 10 levels or 1 turn for every 5 points of wisdom (imo the latter is better) would be enough to offset this and still not be that long (as its less than 1 round still). Actually Charisam might be better than wisdom here, even though its not a monkush stat

Edited by Jinnai, 18 May 2004 - 12:31 PM.

[T.G.Maestro]

I think this would be better if the length was increased, but certain enimies were immune to this (the more perceptive creatures/beings)

You might as well notice that this innate ability uses the Sanctuary effect from the priest-spell. This partially solves your problem Jinnai: some monsters or tougher opponents have scripted invisibility detection, and will easily spot you in this state (the same goes for the invisible state of Ethereal). The Five, Liches and Dragons are good examples for this. No mater, I'd accept a longer duration, how about 1Turn +1round/3 levels?

I nearly finished the work on the new monk files, I'm currently finalizing the icons and visuals for the HLAs. Here is the proposed new HLA table for monks, with all the prerequisites and other goodies included:

1.: Shadowless Kick
2.: Dragon Fist (requires Shadowless Kick)
3.: Tiger Strike (requires Dragon Fist)
4.: Inner Time (requires Faster Than the Eye)
5.: Finger of Venom (requires Dragon Fist, Evil only, excluded by Second Wind)
6.: Second Wind (requires Monk Regeneration, Good only, excluded by Finger of Venom)
7.: Evasion
8.: Greater Evasion (requires Evasion, Monk version)
9.: Insignificance (requires Diamond Soul)
10.: Chant (requires Diamond Soul)
11.: Ethereal (requires Diamond Soul)
12.: Faster Than the Eye (requires Greater Evasion)
13.: Monk Regeneration (requires Diamond Soul)
14.: Diamond Soul

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 20 May 2004 - 12:00 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

You may notice that it will be very unlikely that a monk character will have all of the more powerful abilities. There are 2-3 "paths", and some nastier HLAs can only be reached by sacrificing a few levels on weaker abilities.

I'd like to hear feedbacks about this version.

[Feanor]

1. The effects of the new abilities remained the ones stated in this thread or there were any changes ?

2. Insignificance can be dispelled by True Seeing ?

Edited by Feanor, 19 May 2004 - 03:40 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

1. The effects of the new abilities remained the ones stated in this thread or there were any changes ?

Hmm, lets see. There will be slight changes, but mostly very minor touches.
- Shadowless Kick will knock the opponent to a greater distance, and faster.
- Tiger Strike's icon will be corrected somewhat.
- Inner Time will have only a 2 round "winded" state after the ability expired instead of 3 rounds. Since Inner Time is extremely powerful at the moment, it is likely that the monk will suffer from a weak fatigue after it has been used (a -1 modifier fatigue). Trust me, it will be needed. I haven't decided yet though, so it is open for discussion.
- Insignificance still uses the Sanctuary visual, I wasn't able to remove it - it is hardcoded.
- Faster Than the Eye can "teleport" you to a slightly increased distance (+40%).

2. Insignificance can be dispelled by True Seeing ?

I'm not sure. Is Sanctuary dispellable by TS? If so, than Insignificance will be as well.

[Feanor]

Note that there are a few -mostly magical- creatures that are "immune" to the effects of Inner Time, since they have a similar perfect (or inborn) inner harmony.

Maestro, I need a clarifying here : how a creature can be immune to Inner Time effects since this ability affects only the monk's body ?

[Schatten]

great. i like the monk changes. as i see it you can take 2 paths max. very great.



"I'm not sure. Is Sanctuary dispellable by TS? If so, than Insignificance will be as well. "

i dont think because its not an illusion. its more like a mind affecting one. dispel can remove it but not ts.

[T.G.Maestro]

Maestro, I need a clarifying here : how a creature can be immune to Inner Time effects since this ability affects only the monk's body ?

Hmm, the answer should be a bit complex, just as Inner Time is. The final effect of Inner Time is reached with the union of two effects - the monks increased and perfect inner harmony, and the additional physical benefits from this. In other words, this ability has two separate effects, and the first one is a bit harder to translate into the bg" "language". The first one ensures the monk to sense every second as a round, which results in an increased time to act, think, execute moves more precisely. The second effect is a "sideeffect" of the first: in this process, the monk's body gets significantly faster. No one is completely "immune" to this (immune is a VERY wrong expression here though). At least not to the second - the monk really gets faster, and there is no way to be immune to this. The trick is in the first part. Some opponents with perfect inner harmony (be it inborn or developed by heavy training) can "catch up" with the monk's increased senses, which means he won't receive some of the bonuses from IT against them. He will become faster in their eyes too, but not that much as in the eyes of a normal human for example.

EDIT: Balthazar and Dragons are good examples for this "immunity".

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 19 May 2004 - 04:28 AM.

[Schatten]

what the.....
lets say the beholder has this inborn harmony. then the monk cannot be hasted because this haste is an sideeffect from inner time and if the beholder also has inner time then both cancel each other.

[Feanor]

That's very clear, Maestro, it's not that complex.

EDIT: Balthazar and Dragons are good examples for this "immunity".

Those creatures are edited by your mod to have this immunity (I ask that, because I can't imagine the original one having an immunity for a custom ability) ?

[T.G.Maestro]

That's very clear, Maestro, it's not that complex

Considering Schatten's last post, it is .
Anyway, to clear things up a bit. If a creature in the vicinity of the monk using IT is "immune" to this effect, the monk won't be THAT fast compard to that creature as compared to others. Or in other words, that creature will be lass slow compared to the monk than others.

Those creatures are edited by your mod to have this immunity

No. If you want precise technical details, go ahead and PM me, and I'll explain it in turn.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Creatures immune to Slow are no doubt immune to Inner Time as well. Inner Time boosts the Monk's attacks & puts a slow effect on others.

Right TG?

[Feanor]

Considering Schatten's last post, it is  .
Anyway, to clear things up a bit. If a creature in the vicinity of the monk using IT is "immune" to this effect, the monk won't be THAT fast compard to that creature as compared to others. Or in other words, that creature will be lass slow compared to the monk than others.

Maybe you should specify which of the Inner Time effects are denied by the "immunity" ?

Edited by Feanor, 19 May 2004 - 04:56 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

Creatures immune to Slow are no doubt immune to Inner Time as well. Inner Time boosts the Monk's attacks & puts a slow effect on others

Almost.
IT also increases the monks movement rate, so even against such opponents you'll notice a considerable increase in speed.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

You may notice that it will be very unlikely that a monk character will have all of the more powerful abilities. There are 2-3 "paths", and some nastier HLAs can only be reached by sacrificing a few levels on weaker abilities.

I'd like to hear feedbacks about this version.

It looks interesting.

On the plus side I really think that some of the new HLAs are cool & I like the paths.

One seems to be: Evason - Greater Evasion - Faster than the Eye.
Another looks like: Diamond Soul - Regeneration (& others) - Second Wind
The final is: Shadowless Kick - Dragon Fist - Tiger Strike

This is good for several resons. For a Monk I might normally skip Evasion & it's greater version ... but not now, not if I want Faster than the Eye. I also really like it that the 'evil' path seems to focus on the offensive track & the good on the defensive one. Adds flavor IMO.

Without access to many of the nifty ToB weapons I think that monks need some stuff to make them 'special' or unique & this HLA table does it.

I also want to note that I like pretty much every single new HLA in the table.

All of this is really good.

The one thing that worries me is balance. I think that collectively this HLA list is really an upgrade power wise for the monk. I'm still mulling over if I think that it's too much or not. My gut says no ... but my brain still isn't convinced yet.

It's pretty hard for me to say too since I've never played a monk in ToB.