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#81 MorningGlory

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 07:08 AM

Because there's something about "Angst and the Analyst" that I've been looking for in "Mind Games," and to be quite honest, I can't find it.


It's, er, a different story? Maybe you were expecting a continuation of certain formulaic methodologies.

I've been told that Riona is yet another username slip-in. But for someone who doesn't know that, "Angst" is a great story. It's light, it's funny, and draws characters and events together in such a way that makes you think. Some of that same spirit is in "Mind Games." I think it's hiding behind another spirit, a "how much cuteness can we pile on the reader?" spirit.


Why should that character's name make a difference? I fail to see your point. Anyway, this is the Mind Games thread, not the Angst and Analyst comment thread.

You bring up a good point. I've always thought that 'cuteness' is in the eye of the beholder -- er, no pun intended. In this case, the reader. I, for one, don't see anything 'cute' at all about this story.

The idea of Morningglory learning knife-throwing from Aran Linvail is neat. The characters still have their distinctive charm. I don't think the plot is as tongue-in-cheek as the characters, and the story suffers as a result. You could play down the "doom befalls the world" plot, or play it up to make it fit the characters.


What can I say? *shrug* I would promise you clarity as the stories progress, but that is impossible to do.

Not all stories are for everyone and this seems to be not your cup of tea.  May I make a suggestion?  I would heartily suggest that you simply skip the last segment and and the complete next two stories and save yourself some grief.  I have a feeling you won't like them any more than this one and might not be worth your effort.  ;)


Gee, I can tell this is a serious post. Only one emoticon!


Your personal sarcasm detracts from your honest critique of the story. Don't shadow your credibility with it.

I was simply offering a simple solution to what I thought was your dilemma. That if you didn't like it, why suffer reading it. Seemed simple enough to me. Still does. *shrug*

And please don't patronize me. You don't have to defend your work or give me the oust because I'm the only naysayer on this thread. Writers don't need to, and I understand that. But implying that it all might be my perception of your work that's influencing my opinion is a little high-handed of you, forum moderator or not.


Whoa, there! I didn't patronize you at all. I didn't/don't feel the need to defend my work, nor do I feel there is any reason to 'oust' you. I simply answered in what I thought was a clear and concise manner. And, as I reread my answer to you, I fail to see anything that would suggest that your perception was/is skewed. My sincere apologies if it was taken as anything other than its intent. And at the risk of sounding even more repetitious, if you don't like it, don't read it.

You may not like my opinion, but that's no reason to talk down to me. (And having the forummaster crawl out of the woodwork to lick your boot adds insult to injury, whether you put him up to it or not.)


I wasn't talking down to you. But I would like to interject something very, very important here.

You are more than welcome to comment on my work -- be it good, bad, or indifferent, or anyone else's here. But keep your comments confined to the fanfic 'literary' offerings. Personal innuendo and insults will NOT be tolerated on this fanfic board. This is not FWP where at times it seemed 'open season' on the distasteful 'flavor of the week'. You should remember that, having been on the sharp end of that stick with your own parodies. If you have a personal problem with someone or something, I suggest that you direct your comments utilizing the pm facility. This is NOT the forum for open personal attacks. There will be no 'open season' here.

Maybe I'll say differently after the last few sections get posted and I can see the work as a whole. Or maybe I'll say the same. (That is, if I don't get banz0red for posting this.) All I ask is that you reread both pieces and continue to revise and edit them as you see fit, and not just remain satisfied with the "OMG MORE PLZ!!11" spotlight.


We're all great believers in the right to express opinions here. We just ask that it be done in a tactful and considerate way and omit the personal commentary that could be construed as an slur or personal affront to either the writers or those posting comments. As I said before, if you have a personal problem with me, send me a pm.

And, in case you didn't notice, this is the end of the story MIND GAMES. The next in the series will begin in the near future.

#82 Beyshaliban

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 11:36 AM

Oh Goodness!! :blink: :blink: :blink:

I knew you were having evil plans but actually reading them is another thing. :o

I loved Glory, the adventuress. Fried slimes? Erm... yumm? :unsure:

And now I can finally, finally brag! I KNEW the new Ilithid headquarter was under Irenicus's dungeon. I didn't think of it when I read the story the first time, but after re-reading the first chapter when you started to post it again I woke up the other morning and thought "OF COURSE"!!! And you gave it away in the first paragraphs! I can't believe I didn't get it the first time I read it! :D

Mind Games was a delightful, enjoyable read. :)

And, erm, any... timelines when we can expect the next story? Working Title? Spoilers? (no, forget that. ;))

Bey

#83 -Ashara-

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 08:36 PM

Pirengle Please Grow up
Were not casting you out as your the naysayer were doing it as your Trolling
There are ways to give critisism and Your my Dear Are not skilled in it so
if you feel like You want to say something negative please do it in a usefull manner
also what the hell did neil do

If i misread you then i do appoligise about that
but i shant apoligise for callign you a troll as you just trolled neil for stating an opinion That he liked something that you didnt which is a bit facist if you ask me


Pringle had offered her critisism in a constructive and cohesive manner. She pointed out specific problems she saw with the story showing in the process that she is familiar with the previous work of the same author.

Why start pacifying or namecalling her for that?

Cheers,
Domi

#84 Shadowhawke

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 03:51 AM

OH... MY... GGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the first time I've logged on in about a week (sorry MG!) and so this is RIGHT AFTER I finished reading! ALL I CAN DO IS SHAKE MY FIST LIKE ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS DID TO OUR MATHS TEACHER AND YELL "EVIL!!!!@

Sorry about the capitals. Anger management and all :lol: .

MG, you are the most calculated, cruel, and ruthless mastermind... even more than Aran! Us, the tortured fans, expect closure... but you leave us with a cliffhanger!! :)
More! More! Please!!

[Oh, and about the rest, absolute, brilliant work. :) }

*hugs* MG, my friend, you're awesome!

Through lightning, travel shadow,
Through hell and all above,
Surviving sword and arrow,
Bound stronger by the love

***

And in the end a witness,
To where the death has lain,
Silent through the sorrow,
Where innocents lie slain


#85 Theodur

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 07:52 AM

Hi, MG! :)

Finally had the chance to finish this at one sitting - very, very nice. I was kind of expecting a bit more OOMPH! with the kidnapping scene, but I'd agree that they way you wrote it works better in the context of the story, overall. :)

I'm very intrigued about how this will continue, now. I agree, having Glory travel to where this demon lord resides would be madness, she's not an accomplished adventuress after all - but having to spend her time in uncertainty will be a horrible experience.

Let's hope that Riona, Aran and the rest of them will succeed in their mission - surely, no other mortals on Faerun are better capable to make the journey and return in one piece! Meanwhile, I hope someone will be there to offer a comforting shoulder to Glory. :(

Thanks for the wonderful story, talespinner! :P

#86 Kirwond

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 08:19 AM

MG!!! (*applauds*)

I was feeling very proud of myself for having figured out who Dran really was before your revelation. Then your damned ending came out of nowhere and knocked my smugness right out.  :lol: Great job!

Riona and Anomen will be able to bring back Hendak and the children, never fear. And it's probably a good thing that Aran will be going with them. The temptation to lend a "sympathetic shoulder" might prove too much, otherwise.   ;)

Looking forward to seeing the next story!

#87 MorningGlory

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 08:37 AM

Oh Goodness!!  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:

I knew you were having evil plans but actually reading them is another thing.    :o 

I loved Glory, the adventuress.  Fried slimes?  Erm... yumm?  :unsure:

And now I can finally, finally brag!  I KNEW the new Ilithid headquarter was under Irenicus's dungeon.  I didn't think of it when I read the story the first time, but after re-reading the first chapter when you started to post it again I woke up the other morning and thought "OF COURSE"!!!  And you gave it away in the first paragraphs!  I can't believe I didn't get it the first time I read it!  :D

Mind Games was a delightful, enjoyable read.  :)

And, erm, any... timelines when we can expect the next story?  Working Title?  Spoilers? (no, forget that. ;))

Bey

Oh, my... my evil cauldron of plot ideas has just been bubbling for so long, I couldn't ignore it. :D

and Glory the Adventuress was a great lark. :lol: I couldn't imagine AL just letting her go willy-nilly on such a risky little jaunt.

And YES! You were the only one who figured out where the proposed illithid city was -- and who, of course, 'told me' in advance of its revelation. I always told people I gave all the clues and there they were...right in the first chapter.. ;) I admit to a few red herrings, however.. ;)

Er... no working title yet, but working on it.. Spoilers... Only that Glory will not accompany our intrepid team on the search and rescue.. ;)

Thanks, my friend.. I'll try to come up with an eta asap.. :D

MG

#88 Immortality

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 09:13 AM

Pirengle: I think I am the living proof that you can criticize what you dont like in this forums. Maybe you should go to the Fan Art forum and search for my replies to some of the portraits posted there.

Far from "more please", you can see what a real, useful and good critic is like. And if not, ill make it easier for you: instead of saying "this sux" and being nasty accusing people of sucking up to MG, you can just say you dont like it, why and how can MG improve what she writes.

Hope you find my criticism of your attitude useful for the future, yes? ;)


Now to the actual comment of the Mind Games thingie: I like it, and i like your writing style!! BUT, I agree here with our friend Pirengle... how about being wrong just once? Making a mistake, and not knowing what to say? Real life is more or less always like that, I agree that you cant be all the time being sharp and saying the right thing at the right place! :D
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#89 -Notmrt-

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 10:33 AM

ITs not if your me i always know what to say as im great :D just like the wonderfull MorningGlory there, isnt she great
------------(Now that is sucking up)------------
As oppsed to the other comments

But dammed good work MG

#90 Pirengle

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 02:23 PM

Far from "more please", you can see what a real, useful and good critic is like. And if not, ill make it easier for you: instead of saying "this sux" and being nasty accusing people of sucking up to MG, you can just say you dont like it, why and how can MG improve what she writes.

Hope you find my criticism of your attitude useful for the future, yes? ;)

Immortality--thanks for being honest with me. I can probably give better criticism if I reread the stories.

I have a strong dislike of Mary Sues and perfect characters, and my dislike would remain the same no matter who authored the story. Despite all that, I'm fond of "Angst." I think it's funny and cute. But "Mind Games" takes the same characters and sticks them into a plot that, quite frankly, I don't think they're designed to be in. Maybe my opinion will change when more gets posted. But by all that I've read so far, I don't think it's working.

I have a lot to recommend this story. MG does a nice job of weaving game elements together and answering a lot of questions that Black Isle/Bioware didn't in-game. Dr. Gaeston's voice is prim, proper, and official both on- and off-duty, which is a nice touch for this professional character. I also have a lot to disrecommend this story. The narration is heavy on superfluous detail. Take the last entry and all the jump cuts. The point of a jump cut is fast action. If Gaeston's counting down the days, wouldn't only the prominent events stick out in her mind? Also, much of the dialogue lacks distinction--every character (with the exception of the Shadow Thieves, it seems) talks nearly the same way with the same crisp and precise language of the doctor. Servants usually have different ways of speaking than their masters, or if it's similar, there's probably a reason. The Kirani birds (I'll get to those in a minute) speak excellently and fluently for birds. Maybe give them a few quirks to help define them?

MG, there's no rule or law prohibiting you from naming your characters any way you want, I realize. It's just a little strange to me because I wonder about author/character separation. I feel the same way with Viga and a few other people who share their usernames with their characters.

I also find it hard to believe a few things about the stories. Daughter-in-law of a missing goddess. Birds that don't mind being personal servants. Hobnobbing with just about all the major personalities in Amn. I think they'd be more believable if there were some plot elements to balance these things out, sorta like the bonuses and flaws system in the White Wolf gaming universe. For one thing, I'd like to see MG's perfection get her in trouble. I'd love for Dr.Gaeston to go parading down to the illithid lair, get captured, then force a rescue from the two men who love her.

But that's just what I want to see. Thing is, is this what you're wanting to write, or exactly the opposite?

I see critique as 1) telling what you like and why, 2) telling what you don't like and why, and 3) offering solutions to problems, and doing all of these while keeping the author's intentions clear. I've gone into roundtable workshops and listening to the class batting around an idea or opinion I didn't know was in my work, or misunderstanding a meaning I attempted to convey, or something that I never even thought of doing. It might not relate to what I've got, but it relates to what my work eventually could be. I try to do that when I critique other people's writing because that's what I find useful. I hate (absolutely HATE) "OMG MORE PLZ!!11" comments because they're useless. What can you do with a fanclub? Even having people say what they liked and why they liked it does more good.

I've also gotten my best critiques when people ripped me a new one. ^_^;; Doesn't matter whether the rippers are right or not--it makes you think about decisions you made and whatnot.

I'll try to be more pleasant in the future, though.

#91 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:30 AM

OH... MY... GGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the first time I've logged on in about a week (sorry MG!) and so this is RIGHT AFTER I finished reading! ALL I CAN DO IS SHAKE MY FIST LIKE ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS DID TO OUR MATHS TEACHER AND YELL "EVIL!!!!@

Sorry about the capitals. Anger management and all  :lol: .

MG, you are the most calculated, cruel, and ruthless mastermind... even more than Aran! Us, the tortured fans, expect closure... but you leave us with a cliffhanger!!  :)
More! More! Please!!

[Oh, and about the rest, absolute, brilliant work.  :) }

*hugs* MG, my friend, you're awesome!

Shadow, you may rant, scream, shake your fist, call me 'evil'... Whatever you wish.. :D (But I especially liked the 'ruthless, calculating' part...) And, I would have to agree with you... But I did forewarn everyone that there would be a few twists and turns along the way..

Thank you for your kind words, little Shadow. Now the fun begins... A slight departure from the usual BG tale and a new experiment into a broader picture of Forgotten Realms. We'll all just see how it turns out.. ;) My first time in many a decade to attempt writing an 'adventure' story, so bear with me.

*hugs*

MG

#92 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:44 AM

Hi, MG!  :)

Finally had the chance to finish this at one sitting - very, very nice. I was kind of expecting a bit more OOMPH! with the kidnapping scene, but I'd agree that they way you wrote it works better in the context of the story, overall. :)

I'm very intrigued about how this will continue, now. I agree, having Glory travel to where this demon lord resides would be madness, she's not an accomplished adventuress after all - but having to spend her time in uncertainty will be a horrible experience.

Let's hope that Riona, Aran and the rest of them will succeed in their mission - surely, no other mortals on Faerun are better capable to make the journey and return in one piece! Meanwhile, I hope someone will be there to offer a comforting shoulder to Glory.  :(

Thanks for the wonderful story, talespinner!  :P

Hi, Theo! :)

I'm rewriting the kidnap scene to include that OOMPH you were talking about... At the time when I wrote it, and then followed with the Epilogue, there was such a dramatic 'chop' that I went back and opted for the 'short-changed' transition. Very difficult in first person pov to go from abject hysteria to a near-catatonic state. But I'm experimenting with it. When I think I have it, I will let you know. ;)

Yes, Glory stays home and will appear very, very little. Not a first-person pov as with the previous two. Needless to say, the waiting and the uncertainty will assuredly take its toll and this will be further explored at the end of Three and into Four.

As for a 'comforting shoulder', Tabor will do as much as he can. And there will be others that will do what they can to supply that support group needed.

Thank you, my friend.. I am glad you enjoyed it. :)

*giant hugs* (teehee)

MG

#93 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:52 AM

MG!!! (*applauds*)

I was feeling very proud of myself for having figured out who Dran really was before your revelation. Then your damned ending came out of nowhere and knocked my smugness right out.  :lol: Great job!

Riona and Anomen will be able to bring back Hendak and the children, never fear. And it's probably a good thing that Aran will be going with them. The temptation to lend a "sympathetic shoulder" might prove too much, otherwise.  ;)

Looking forward to seeing the next story!

You should know me well enough by now to know there is no telling where I might drag the reader, or what hole I might drop him/her down. :D

But congratulations.. I thought I left enough clues that Dran's identity was, er, a 'given'.. LOL

Well, when you're the Shadowmaster and the goddess of trade (even illegal trade) asks you for a favor, it would probably be impolite to ignore her.. :lol: And, yes, had he stayed, I would have been doing two stories..

Thank you, Kirwond, and I pray for your safe journey to your new home.. God speed, and I'll be out on my deck as you fly overhead, waving.. :D (We do require updates on such rl events, you know.. ;))

#94 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 08:15 AM

Now to the actual comment of the Mind Games thingie: I like it, and i like your writing style!! BUT, I agree here with our friend Pirengle... how about being wrong just once? Making a mistake, and not knowing what to say? Real life is more or less always like that, I agree that you cant be all the time being sharp and saying the right thing at the right place! :D

Many people find a lot of my story components disagreeable because they do not mirror 'real life' circumstances and events. And I am the first to agree that they do not, indeed, adhere to such everyday things. I suppose I can only say that there is a certain degree of literary license within a fantasy world that allows for such a departure. As for our little Miss Perfect Doctor, no, she isn't perfect by any means, but some of her own problems have been hinted at so far, but not quite brought to the forefront. Other 'imperfections' have been realized by our character on her road to self-development. For example, not being able to defend herself. Being foolish as to think violence cannot invade her world. She has a stark realization of this and does something to change it. As the individual stories progress, all of this will be further explored.

I have always maintained that a part of her appeal to readers is that she is somewhat ordinary -- for the Forgotten Realms setting, that is. She possesses no magical endowment or skills, is not part of any heroic adventurer's group, and other than her privileged upbringing (and without a mother), she is what I thought might typify someone in Athkatla under those circumstances. In other words, she is an ordinary woman in extra-ordinary circumstances. It seems to be her fate, of sorts.. Or is it? ;) As a hint, maybe a future revelation will be forthcoming as to exactly who/what has been, and is, providing such inordinant influence in her life. After all, it's a fantasy world... there are infinite possibilities for intrigue and intrigues with intrigues.

Thank you, Immortality. Appreciate the comment and hope this clarifies a bit. Sometimes it difficult to explain a particular component of a story without giving away the whole thing before its time.. Hope this helped at least a little. ;)

MG

#95 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 08:18 AM

ITs not if your me i always know what to say as im great :D just like the wonderfull MorningGlory there, isnt she great
------------(Now that is sucking up)------------
As oppsed to the other comments

But dammed good work MG

Thanks, notmrt... and I don't think you know how to suck up.. :D So don't even try it as you will be laughed off the board.. :lol:

#96 Immortality

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 08:29 AM

Yeah I get it, I guess I like to relate somehow to the people in the story, maybe... I like to feel them as realistic as possible, even in fantasy worlds :D Or at least thats how I roleplay ^^

Keep up the good work! I do like your style very much! :D
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#97 -Notmrt-

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 08:34 AM

I fiqured since i knew how to be sucked up to that i could pull it off the other way ;)

But on a more serious note why the hell are you not a profesional writter
:S it baffels me

#98 Immortality

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 08:43 AM

She was for many years, mrt! :)
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#99 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 09:14 AM

I have a strong dislike of Mary Sues and perfect characters, and my dislike would remain the same no matter who authored the story. Despite all that, I'm fond of "Angst." I think it's funny and cute. But "Mind Games" takes the same characters and sticks them into a plot that, quite frankly, I don't think they're designed to be in. Maybe my opinion will change when more gets posted. But by all that I've read so far, I don't think it's working.

I have a lot to recommend this story. MG does a nice job of weaving game elements together and answering a lot of questions that Black Isle/Bioware didn't in-game. Dr. Gaeston's voice is prim, proper, and official both on- and off-duty, which is a nice touch for this professional character. I also have a lot to disrecommend this story. The narration is heavy on superfluous detail. Take the last entry and all the jump cuts. The point of a jump cut is fast action. If Gaeston's counting down the days, wouldn't only the prominent events stick out in her mind? Also, much of the dialogue lacks distinction--every character (with the exception of the Shadow Thieves, it seems) talks nearly the same way with the same crisp and precise language of the doctor. Servants usually have different ways of speaking than their masters, or if it's similar, there's probably a reason. The Kirani birds (I'll get to those in a minute) speak excellently and fluently for birds. Maybe give them a few quirks to help define them?

MG, there's no rule or law prohibiting you from naming your characters any way you want, I realize. It's just a little strange to me because I wonder about author/character separation. I feel the same way with Viga and a few other people who share their usernames with their characters.

I also find it hard to believe a few things about the stories. Daughter-in-law of a missing goddess. Birds that don't mind being personal servants. Hobnobbing with just about all the major personalities in Amn. I think they'd be more believable if there were some plot elements to balance these things out, sorta like the bonuses and flaws system in the White Wolf gaming universe. For one thing, I'd like to see MG's perfection get her in trouble. I'd love for Dr.Gaeston to go parading down to the illithid lair, get captured, then force a rescue from the two men who love her.

But that's just what I want to see. Thing is, is this what you're wanting to write, or exactly the opposite?

I see critique as 1) telling what you like and why, 2) telling what you don't like and why, and 3) offering solutions to problems, and doing all of these while keeping the author's intentions clear. I've gone into roundtable workshops and listening to the class batting around an idea or opinion I didn't know was in my work, or misunderstanding a meaning I attempted to convey, or something that I never even thought of doing. It might not relate to what I've got, but it relates to what my work eventually could be. I try to do that when I critique other people's writing because that's what I find useful. I hate (absolutely HATE) "OMG MORE PLZ!!11" comments because they're useless. What can you do with a fanclub? Even having people say what they liked and why they liked it does more good.

I've also gotten my best critiques when people ripped me a new one. ^_^;; Doesn't matter whether the rippers are right or not--it makes you think about decisions you made and whatnot.

I'll try to be more pleasant in the future, though.

This is will something of an abbreviated reply, and I would refer you to my prior post to Immortality.

Many people dislike Mary Sues with a passion. As I mentioned to a friend, the concept of mary sues is like a pendelum and swings widely with each generation of writers and readers. It's the recurring nature of the beast, so to speak. But the fact remains there are people who do like them, regardless of where that pendelum is at any given time, and those that don't, also regardless of where the popular conception is at the time.

The Kirani birds were fairly well defined for story purposes in A&A. And they do have their uniqueness. A sweet tooth that results in a total molting, the ability to completely emulate any sound, and their backstory of origin and development. *scratches head* Are you suggesting I give them something, like, er, a nervous twitch, or, the equivalent of Turrets Syndrome? And, if I may ask, where did you pick up on the birds being 'personal servants'? I don't think I portrayed either Ki or Maurice as such.

I understand your concern about author/character transference. We were always cautioned about that as well. It's a valid concern, I would agree. But ultimately, it is the responsibility (and problem) of the writer. No, I haven't hung out a shingle that says I'm qualified to treat humans, half-elves, and elves in mental disease. Although, it is a thought.

Ahh... the suspension of disbelief. It is different for everyone. You seem to be assuming that I was going for 'realism'. That wasn't my intent. I am somewhat mystified that the fact there is magic, a lich, and mind-dominating creatures seems not to offend you, but the introduction of an 'intelligent' bird, literate servants, and an upper-crust social circle of Athkatla does seem to bother you.

As for the Doc's imperfections, you again repeat that you would love to see her get into 'trouble'. At the risk of offending you, may I point out she already is in 'trouble', but not the usual, adventure damsel-in-distress type, and I am not referring to the obvious 'kidnapping' at the end. At one time I did consider the very scenario you describe -- the being held by the mindflayer, etc., but dismissed it for something a bit more intricate down the road.

Thank you for your comments, Pirengle. They really are appreciated.

MG

#100 MorningGlory

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 09:19 AM

I fiqured since i knew how to be sucked up to that i could pull it off the other way ;)

But on a more serious note why the hell are you not a profesional writter
:S it baffels me

Simple... There's no money in it unless your name is James Patterson, or John leCarre, or ... or.... :D I like to eat and keep paper in my printer.. ;)