89 replies to this topic

[Grim Squeaker]

NiGHTMARE, on Apr 14 2004, 03:15 PM, said:

Female Dwarves in the FR certainly grow beards.

As my new creation shows!

[dorotea]

Phew - it was me above. I forgot to log in.

[BobTokyo]

Howdy Dorotea.

LOL! What would you prefer then - a fantasy genre based on Sharia law would be a novelty indeed...

Yes it would, and I'd love to see something like that. Why not have a devout Muslim NPC, tweaked to fit into the realms? Now that would be interesting.

For that matter I suspect the laws/traditions of say medieval Japan or ancient Greece would not appeal to you much as well.

As places to live? Quite right, no appeal at all. As alternatives to yet another frickin' semi-middle class westerner fantasy world cultural background? Again, I'd love to see that.

Did a poll on this issue over in the Fridge.

And to imagine that a person that lives hundreds and hundreds of years and accumulate all that incredibale amout of knowledge would still be interested in experimenting with thier sexual lives like a bunch of kids is a bit naive, to say the least. I expect elven sexuality to be of a more refined nature - they probably have tomes written on the theory of erotica, not to mention developed extensive branch of magic dedicated to enhancing the experience.

(Paraphrasing Heinlein) "It's amazing how much mature wisdom resembles being too tired".
I'm not of the opinion that Elves would 'experiment' one way or another; a certain percentage of mature adults do participate in and have always participated in swingers clubs, same sex relationships, serial marriages, pollygamous marriages and other such diversions. This suggests that, if we have to use a human culture as our model of elven culture, their greater range of experience might easilly encourage a range of sexual play. That aside, there is no reason to assume that a set of cultural norms and taboos developed and followed by short lived humans in one time and place would apply at all to an enirely different species living in a different world.
I'd love to see an 'adult' mod with a sexy Drow elf explaining, very matter of factly, that "Of Course the Queen only breeds with her strongest sons, and then feeds her mates to her favorites in order to share his strength; the way you humans spread around your royal blood is disgusting."

[Mongoose87]

Hendryk, on Apr 14 2004, 05:27 AM, said:

I suppose a cutscene orgy in the Copper Coronet - PG, of course! - is absolutely out of the question?

How does one make a PG orgy?

[jester]

Screen fades to black like in the movies. Lovers never take their shirts off, so keeping all your gear is possible.

[jester]

... and can be resurrected and everything else. I think perhaps a muslim maybe to hard to implement (??Calimshan??), but having a completely different set of values appart from survival would be interesting.

[dorotea]

Quote

I'd love to see an 'adult' mod with a sexy Drow elf explaining, very matter of factly, that "Of Course the Queen only breeds with her strongest sons, and then feeds her mates to her favorites in order to share his strength; the way you humans spread around your royal blood is disgusting."

Well, it might be interesting indeed, but in my turn I would cheer for a mod that will try to explore the aspect of elven mentality that is rarely mentioned and usually swept under the carpet in every discussion - the 'true' equality of genders.

As in Corellon Larethian has both male and female aspects and as such homo and hetero sexuality are considered equally valid way of expressing one's libido.

And I mean 'truly' equally - the male male bond is not giggled at and considered disgusting, the female-female relationship is not a 'hot' topic for overexcited males with inquisitive minds, who think it a cover for a deeply hidden 'craving' for a male partner.

And the male-female relationship is 'truly' equal, which means no monetary, political, cultural or religious inhibitions - there is no such thing as prostitution of forced marriage in elven society, and any union is truly freely chosen one.

I doubt such a society would have place for poligamy by the way, since elves are very individual and centered in their expression of 'self-ness' - ie they don't like to share partners.

[jester]

domi, on Apr 14 2004, 10:36 PM, said:

Funnily, Tolkien's absolutely immortal Elves are very strict there, the central conflict of Silmarillion being powered by the firstborn's son fear of his younger half-brothers

Which conflict are you referring to?

[BobTokyo]

dorotea, on Apr 14 2004, 09:20 PM, said:

there is no such thing as prostitution of forced marriage in elven society, and any union is truly freely chosen one.

I doubt such a society would have place for poligamy by the way, since elves are very individual and centered in their expression of 'self-ness' - ie they don't like to share partners.

The first two are mixed economic/gender issues that might easily exist regardless of gender equality; the only change such equality might make would be in the demand for male prostitutes (something that would require a rewiring of sexual signalling and sellection behavoirs in humans, but who knows with elves) and an increase in the number of social climbing famillies "forcing" sons into marriage. Polygamy is historically a cultural answer to the problem of ensuring support for women and children in times and places where male populations have been reduced and/or extreme concentration of wealth in the hands of a small number of households has taken place. It would be well suited to a fantasy world where the males are being regularly killed off in war, though some kind of group marriage or extended family system would be more likely if women actively participated in warfare.

Still, I respect your vision of the gender-free sylvan lifestyle.

[BobTokyo]

domi, on Apr 14 2004, 09:36 PM, said:

Of what importance is inheritance when your parents will likely outlive almost anything material they could leave you?

Elves in FR observe laws of property; thievery, f.ex is punishable by an exile from the community. The inherited possessions, such as Moonblades outlive a few generations of elves.

Funnily, Tolkien's absolutely immortal Elves are very strict there, the central conflict of Silmarillion being powered by the firstborn's son fear of his younger half-brothers

So as far as FR and ME is concerned, it seems that at least on the surface quazi-human laws are applied (with corrections and adjustments of course)

Tolkien, for all his tallents, wasn't even trying to explore trully non-human societies. Simple country folk Hobbits and idealized upper class Elves and frickin' Tom "Adam" Bombadil. I blame him for the generations of Elves and aliens as humans in pointy ears.

[Hendryk]

Then blame the Norse sagas because that's what Tolkien used as a basis for ME. The pointy ears (and smaller stature) were only added in the mid-70's by Gary Gygax & friends.

[BobTokyo]

Hendryk, on Apr 15 2004, 01:49 AM, said:

Then blame the Norse sagas because that's what Tolkien used as a basis for ME. The pointy ears (and smaller stature) were only added in the mid-70's by Gary Gygax & friends.

Yup, humans have traditionally had trouble imagining the lives and thoughts of non-humans.

[Hendryk]

Yep. And Tolkien wasn't an anthropologist or a celebrater of diversity. His vision was of a single, unified world in which gods, (AD&D) deva-types like Gandalf and Saruman, elves, humans, dwarves and hobbits were all properly participants in one whole society. Thus, deviance from one's proper role (begun with Morgoth) did equal degradation there.