347 replies to this topic

[Auvrin]

Heres my take on this subject....
one....did valen to be a vamp in the first place and if she didnt then she isnt inherently evil therefore even with the loss of her soul and killing people she still has the memories of feelings and love and compassion.
two .... a great way to implimit a love quest for valen is to stop her from killing over time even if you do kill innocent people in the beginning ....a redemption mod that somehow involves valen bringing down her master, bohdi, or maybe involving taking down the entire vampire circle.
three....the bottom line is this if a person is good there job is to cleanse the world of evil whether its destroying it ,converting it or "loving it to good"....so it could be done .....after all if anyone ever watched the series "buffy the vampire slayer" then they would know that vampires can be powerful forces of good.


just my thoughts

As I recall, Valen chose to become a vampire. Correct me if I'm wrong of course. Not only that, but she was chosen because of her lack in her previous life and her potential for being a killer.

Let evil be evil, and good be good. There are plenty of 'good' mods already out there, and even more in the making.

[Eocine]

I have to agree, whilst I'd like to see Valen "fleshed out" if you will I don't want to see her
a) be romanceable
or
B) be redeemable.

[Renegade ++RIP++]

.....after all if anyone ever watched the series "buffy the vampire slayer" then they would know that vampires can be powerful forces of good.

I think you are a little mistaken in the reference.

If it is a good vampire that you are searching for then you should say blade

And did you know they already made 2 films and a serie from it , so the topic must be popular

oh and top of that let evil be evil, look at some of the best movies/series , there you will always see something evil turned in something good. So with this I mean, an evil person becomes good through the actions that he takes and the love that he has for one person, even if it is an abominable being

cheers

PS: I myself am also not that into having a relationship with a vampire but maybe that is just because I'm xenofobic

[Hendryk]

You could turn that around, too. A large part of the majesty of LotR is the tragedy of Good succumbing to the lure of Evil; considering the whole history of Middle Earth, this was much more common. Redemption was only possible on the border; hence, Boromir and the the old king of Rohan were redeemed although it cost both their lives.

Not great role-playing material though.

[foogla]

My only comment: Valen forces the player into situations where he has no choice but to be evil, it's like he's on a railroad into the abyss. I guess not many people like that. :/

One major complaint: The Vampire Hunters can show up anytime, anywhere.

Right now I am inside the planar sphere, and Van Helsing is camping outside. In those cramped quarters I have no chance to defeat him (well actually he just kills Valen since they all spawn basically on top of her and goes off). I actually thought I had the exp figured out (so that I could leave the sphere) but forgot the quest exp. :/

[Auvrin]

My only comment: Valen forces the player into situations where he has no choice but to be evil, it's like he's on a railroad into the abyss. I guess not many people like that. :/

It is kinda ment to be an evil mod after all.....

[serjeLeBlade]

A completely different point of wiev about the matter...

At present, I'm not playing with Valen for just 1 reason: she's not romanceable and she cuts off Aerie's romance.
I will never want to play without a romance and I've romanced Viconia, Jaheria, Kelsey and Sola enough.
If Valen would be romanceable, I'd create an evil character at once just to play with her.

Obviously, Valen's would have to be a very different kind of romance and I agree that the term "romance" is maybe not even appropriate.
But I would say that a Valen "relationship" is doable and needed.
Even better if it turns out as a really evil and creepy thing.... You know, vampires who love each other don't make love together. They hunt together. And an evil bhaalspawn could make a finest and delightful hunt mate for any vampire, I'd say.

("sunset" cutscene)
Valen - Look, darling... sun is setting again, at last ... time has come to have our very special playtime together one more time, I hope?" B)
(removes sunglasses)

Pretty obvious she's a bloodthirsty murderer.
In fact, she should force the pc to do things even more evil than any evil player would ever do by himself... like killing innocents just for fun.
And she would break the "romance" (to say the very least) if the pc doesn't complies.
(Just as Jaheira would if you don't get along with all her harpers nonsense).

(Does it make sense or not? Tell me! Even flames are welcome)

[Hendryk]

A completely different point of wiev about the matter...

You know, vampires who love each other don't make love together. They hunt together. And an evil bhaalspawn could make a finest and delightful hunt mate for any vampire, I'd say.

("sunset" cutscene)
Valen - Look, darling... sun is setting again, at last ... time has come to have our very special playtime together one more time, I hope?"  B)
(removes sunglasses)

In fact, she should force the pc to do things even more evil than any evil player would ever do by himself... like killing innocents just for fun.
And she would break the "romance" (to say the very least) if the pc doesn't complies.

Very nice take on it; seduction to Evil. I would like it even better if she could do this to a Good character who's fool enough to take her along because she is so powerful.

[Auvrin]

A completely different point of wiev about the matter...

You know, vampires who love each other don't make love together. They hunt together. And an evil bhaalspawn could make a finest and delightful hunt mate for any vampire, I'd say.

("sunset" cutscene)
Valen - Look, darling... sun is setting again, at last ... time has come to have our very special playtime together one more time, I hope?"  B)
(removes sunglasses)

In fact, she should force the pc to do things even more evil than any evil player would ever do by himself... like killing innocents just for fun.
And she would break the "romance" (to say the very least) if the pc doesn't complies.

Very nice take on it; seduction to Evil. I would like it even better if she could do this to a Good character who's fool enough to take her along because she is so powerful.

Better yet, have her kill the PC for trying to romance her to begin with and end the game.

As for not playing because it's not a romance. That is fully, and utterly, your loss. I can only imagine you don't plan to play Keto either, just because you can't romance her.

Being perfectly honest.. As much as Valen forces the PC to be evil, I would be whole heartedly disapointed if she didn't end up trying to kill the PC to get a taste of divine blood, unless she had adopted the PC or Imoen as a new Master/Mistress... In which case.. all bets are off and she's pretty much a thrall.

[Hendryk]

Being perfectly honest.. As much as Valen forces the PC to be evil, I would be whole heartedly disapointed if she didn't end up trying to kill the PC to get a taste of divine blood, unless she had adopted the PC or Imoen as a new Master/Mistress... In which case.. all bets are off and she's pretty much a thrall.

This, I think, is what Serje meant - not a sexual/romantic relationship but a psychic seduction toward Evil; in short, a relationship mod. And her drive toward such an end would not be lessened if Valen were a thrall to the PC. If anything, she'd probably try harder to bring it about in hopes of gaining the upper hand over the PC in the process (via making the PC a vampire of her creation or some other means).

[Auvrin]

Again... I would rather see Valen have more depth as a character before a romance/relationship is even considered. More NPC banter.. More PC banter... As well as seeing the TOB half finished as well. Who knows, you may just be satisfied with the finished product without it.(It's also less work and time on the maker's part since so many of you have taken that into consideration. <_< )

[Hendryk]

As far as I can see, we're talking about the same thing here; only adding a suggestion about the direction for the added depth and banters to take.

[Auvrin]

As far as I can see, we're talking about the same thing here; only adding a suggestion about the direction for the added depth and banters to take.

Romances require a bit more work then just a regular NPC would. There are more variables to add and so forth, not to mention the amount of PC related banter. The reason I would suggest finishing her as a character first, is for the simple fact of making her a very worthwhile character through the entire game, without having to romance her. Once that's done, then add the option to romance her if you feel it's still needed. In other words.. Take the route that involves less work first, and see if it makes people happy befor making it a massive project.

[Ka'Victus]

Hi, people. I have downloaded Valen mod for a while and have been screening through all the Valen related discussions in the forum with a question weighed in my mind. While all of you are enjoying the mod, I am worried about one thing --- can Valen stay with the group through Throne of Bhaal? Someone please tell me! <_< [B][B]

[Kish]

Yes, she can. As long as you're willing to embrace Evil.

[serjeLeBlade]

Better yet, have her kill the PC for trying to romance her to begin with and end the game.  
...
As for not playing because it's not a romance.  That is fully, and utterly, your loss.  I can only imagine you don't plan to play Keto either, just because you can't romance her.  

"Kill the PC". Now, now. What big words. Who's she, "Cheating Jon Irenicus II" by any chance?
The mighty "charname" is not very likely to die at the snap of some fledgling vampire's fingers.

Let's say, instead, that she could "turn hostile and attack" the pc like other npc do at times, if the pc does or says something that really gets her mad. On this I agree fully. No inconsequential (Viccy-style) threatening from Valen. You get her angry, you ger her fangs at your throath. Fine.

But why should she get angry at me? I'm saying I like her and I'm willing to play an evil killer who loves her.
I'm not talking about tender embraces and loving kisses and "try to get into her pants". I'm talking about Dominating pretty young boys and bring'em helpless to her as presents. Should she get angry for such things?

And about not playing without romance, you misunderstood what I said. I'm not saying "I don't want any non-romanceable npcs in my party", I'm only saying that I always want at least one.
Now, the only evil romanceable npc I know of is Viconia, which is pretty and powerful and all, but I happen to have some other romance still to try *for the first time* and so, I wouldn't like to romance her again. I have only so much free time.

If Valen was romanceable herself, the problem would not exist.
Otherwise, what else could I do? Does Tashia get along well with Valen? I guess not. Any other suggestions? ... Nalia maybe?
But DeArnise Romance is still work in progress.

I hope I've explained my points better this time.

[Trau]

I still don't see why people are trying to lord over the gameplaying of others. If you don't want the romance, you don't have to have it. Simple as that, folks. I think the option should always be open. <_<

[Auvrin]

I still don't see why people are trying to lord over the gameplaying of others. If you don't want the romance, you don't have to have it. Simple as that, folks. I think the option should always be open.

I also don't see why you think of it as 'lording' over others by expressing an opinion. Unless that's all you can come up with for an argument as to why there should be a romance.

Here's a better question for you then. Why should she have a romance? Instead of saying why she shouldn't or the same old 'because options are good', give reasons why she should have one. What about her in character leads someone to believe she should have a romance?

You don't have to have a romance to have an in depth character either. That can be done outside a romance.

[serjeLeBlade]

Maybe it would be easier if we stop calling it "a romance" at all.
Now the question is, would Weimer be interested in adding some "relationship" part to the Valen Mod?
Something that would allow the pc to talk with her, know her more deeply, and maybe share something...
I was thinking... there's people who say that not even Soulafein's should be called "a romance".

And I myself could say the same about Jaheira's....

[foogla]

Yes but why then Valen? All the NPCs could use a little more interaction with charname.