347 replies to this topic

[Harbinger]

Wow this discussion has gone on almost a year, sorry I missed it. Well... Ill put my two cents in anyway. Vampires throughout time have always been seductive sexual creatures, have you seen any movie where they are portrayed otherwise. Indeed its necessary for their survival this is why they have the ability to charm. Just think of Bram Stokers Dracula, remember the movie with Winona Ryder there is no doubt a romance. And even in the original AD&D module Vault of the Drow by none other than Gary Gygax (who wrote the first AD&D rulebooks) there was a Drow Vampire in a relationship with a Succubus. So I see no problem with having a romance involving Valen. Not your traditional love story, but thats what makes it an interesting change of pace. BTW has this been decided one way or another? Whats the latest from Wes?

[Auvrin]

I wasted my time posting my thoughts on this once before, though upon return and seeing this debate is STILL going on.. I decided to skim through the later posts..

What I see here are alot of people arguing vampires as a whole being able to love, rather then JUST Valen. Perhaps she can love, so can any other vampire, and perhaps not. However, if you go over Valen's attitude on the basis she was designed and presented, there really wasn't any opening for a romance with her. From a point of view on character development... Valen should *NOT* be romancable. If at any point and time Valen is fleshed out more as a character, and doors are left open for a romance, perhaps showing some display of interest in the PC, maybe then. Though no thoughts of a romance should even really be considered until she has more character to go by.

I believe it's just the obsession of the masses of being in a relationship with a vampire, rather then just having Valen romancable. This being the case, perhaps someone else simply just needs to make a mod in their own free time.

[Auvrin]

I have a habit of wasting my time, which is why I can't ever get past just the writing for my own mods.

Yes, Valen is a vampire, and your point? The topic had taken I violent turn into a huge debate about vampires being able to love or not, when in reality it should stick to a basis on wether or not Valen can love or not, despite her being a vampire.

From how Valen has been presented, she's nothing more then a cold blooded killer set on a path for power and acceptance from her Mistress. There was commonly no interest in the PC that could have suggested a romance, and basicly leads a player to believe the character isn't MEANT to romance her.

You have to consider both sides of it. Considering the possibility of fleshing her out as a character without a romance, and with one. In my opinion, she could be twisted into an incredibly interesting character without a romance. Having her romancable just seems to make her lose some of her flavor, she falls in line with the rest of the romancable NPC's. True it would be of a darker nature and you could take it to several different paths, but all in all she would be developed more as a seductive character, rather then the blood thirsty killer she is now.

[Grim Squeaker]

I think that any 'romance' for Valen would have to start with Forcetalk lovetalks from the PC (Flirt style but not actually flirts!). This would allow the PC to choose what direction he's trying to take Valen (Ooo err...). Probably four available lovetalks available each time:

- 'Attempted Redemption' lovetalks
- 'Bog standard asking about her' lovetalks
- 'Try and have sex with her' lovetalks
- 'Cheesey chat-up lines'

Obviously (with the exception of thd chat-up lines, which would just be trying the next option) then it would be like some sort of tree system as to which lovetalks are available. I imagine it you choose a redemption lovetalk then her NextLovetalkRomanceCounter would go up by 1. Bog standard Lovetalks wouldn't change the value. Sex lovetalks would -1. Obviously the ValenRomance global would work exactly the same as other romances as it needs to know how far down the tree you have got.

I imagine the redemption ones would just be 'being nice to her' options at first as attempted Redemption would take a lot of work. It would be upto the writer as to whether Redemption is actually possible or whether the PC is wasting his time. To get the bog standard romance then you would have to get her to talk about herself a lot. The sex ones would be quite suggestive from the start (whether they work or not is upto Valen!). I imagine every so often there would be a 'homerun' option which allows you to ask her to have sex with you and you can find out if all your innuendoes and sextalk has actually been worth it. The cheesey chat-up lines option is there just for a laugh. Although she might not appreciate them at all (e.g. 'Is it hot in here, or is it just you?' 'I'm dead you stupid bastard! of course I'm not hot!').

Opinions? Critisism? Death-threats?

[Grim Squeaker]

Opinions?  Critisism?  Death-threats?

heheh.. only with "allow(ing) the PC to choose what direction he's trying to take Valen" I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying.
ie: PC: Valen, I want you to be a sex-slave

I think she'd probably kill you.

I agree about the character development part. Talking about Bodhi etc would be a good way to get her to 'come out of her shell'.

[Harbinger]

I would see this romance as a struggle of wills, vampires see control as a means of survival. So after Bodhis out of the picture, Valens need to dominate should eminate in ex. making others like her. I also see consequences for those who seek a romance with her, will she become more like you or will you become more like her, like that quote for those that stare into the Abyss.

[Jessayla]

Yeah, I would so love to see Valen more fully fleshed out this way. I'm not sold on the idea that it would have to include romance-type content (or even that it should!). I just very much enjoyed playing through with Valen; her dialogues as they are are quite good. I just want more! Really, though, she's Wes' character..would he be planning to add anything further to her, or would he be averse to someone else doing so? She's just such fun..would be awesome to have more of her. I do so love truely evil characters.

[Thorium Dragon]

As this topic has been going on for almost a year, I'd say there is a considerable interest in a romance/seduction/control/(whatever) addition to the Valen mod.

Vampires, and their emotional motivations, are compelling for many people, so I think it's safe to consider a "romance" a good step forward for the mod.

I believe the more obstacles a romance has, the more potential it has to be interesting.

Therefore, Valen has a *lot* of potential.

[Dark-Mage]

Not sure how this will go down but here is my two cents.

If the creator of this Valen isn't to sure or keen on the whole idea of a Valen romance then might I suggest that he creats just a basic romance mod and has a very small beta, maybe just a few friends for example, to se how it orks out. If it proves to be a success then it could be worked upon and expaned to improve it even more.

[Auvrin]

Instead of the whole thing about people wanting this or that with Valen, perhaps a new approach would be a better choice.

You think she should be romancable? Give a list of valid reasons why Valen should be romancable.(Not just because you, yourself, want to romance her, but reasons Valen the character should have a romance.)

It's a horrible pity that alot of people believe you can't have an in depth character without having a romance involved. There are several romance mods out there, including four that Blackisle tried to provide to begin with.

In my opinion, I feel Valen should *NOT* romance, seduce, or go towards anything of a sexual nature with the PC. Valen holds the presentation of being a cold blooded killer. This isn't saying she can't love, but it does say she has higher priorities. There are so many paths Valen can be taken without a romance that could include a large amount of banter, interaction, and PC triggered conversation. Valen is obsessed with her Mistress, even beyond her destruction. This could lead her into losing some of her sanity, killing at a whim and running utter chaos within even the most evil of parties. She could even be taken to a different path, finding herself as her own Mistress, learning from the relative actions and assistance of the PC *WITHOUT* a romance or trying to get into her pants. Valen should never be redeemable. From how she was designed in the game, she forces the party to make evil choices, and in the end drops your parties reputation for choosing to assist her against the hunters and keeping her within your group. She's typically not meant for a 'good' party, thus she shouldn't be redeemable. There is no plot that would agree otherwise in her current state.

[GreyViper]

Besides she is a vampire and what vampires lust for, blood. I dont think it would be romance as in human terms.

[Dark-Mage]

I suppose everyone has different opinions and views on this subject and in my experiance of forums I have found that no one will change there opinion on something unless they want to. In the end it is down to he creator (sorry forget their name) of Valen to decide in which direction they wish it to go.

[Grim Squeaker]

I agree with most of what you said, and I certainly have no desire to redeem her.

Agreed. But I think it would be nice for the PC to be able to try to redeem her but ulitmately fail.

[Jessayla]

I just don't see any place for a PC to TRY to redeem Valen (and certainly never succeed). She's an option for EVIL PARTIES. Why on earth would an evil PC want to 'redeem' Valen? Why would a good party have her in the first place? Don't see any reason to worry about that particular scenario. Then again, that's just my two cents.