And what GOOD charicter would take Valen? Or side with Bhodi, for that matter? The only non evil who WOULD even join Bhodi is a LN (NOT about to work for the worlds greatist criminal orginization!)
Valen Romance
Started by
-Ziad-
, Oct 29 2002 03:02 PM
347 replies to this topic
#22
Auvrin
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- Member
- 171 posts
Posted 30 October 2002 - 04:38 PM
NOT about to work for the worlds greatist criminal orginization!)
*coughs*Shadow Thieves*coughs*
It's also occoured to me that no one bothers to read completely, so this is my final thought in the matter, considering it will be skimmed over anyhow. VALEN, is a cold blooded murder. VALEN, doesn't HAVE to think about love or romance, not everyone does. If you were to assume that everything will have a romance somewhere, you couldn't be more wrong. There are ALOT of people out there in the world that would rather avoid having a solid relationship all together, and no most of the one's I'm speaking of are female. I don't see the need for a romance with Valen at all. She is a great character, and I've said it befor, and I'll say it again. Don't fix what isn't broken. All of you would rather trash up a good mod just so you can get into a vampires pants, rather then see the character continued with great dialoge in TOB. Befor you even bother saying you want BOTH, go out and make your own vampire romance. I would personaly download it as long as it's well written. I just don't see a romantic interest needed in the Valen mod.
Of all things in this world... Our self built cages, are our worst design of hell.
Fear me simply because I'm blunt and honest.
*WARNING* I am rated R for suggestive themes and violent material. If you need a warning label don't leave home, cause there isn't a warning label on your front door.
-Pain is beatiful.-
Fear me simply because I'm blunt and honest.
*WARNING* I am rated R for suggestive themes and violent material. If you need a warning label don't leave home, cause there isn't a warning label on your front door.
-Pain is beatiful.-
#23
Spideyknight
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- Member
- 24 posts
Posted 30 October 2002 - 04:47 PM
One action does not make your alignment shift so dramatically. To go from good to evil alignment you would have to do something extraordinary.
Besides you are limiting your thought processes again. Here is another take on how a good PC might go through the events.
The person in the stronghold could have worded his greeting better. My reasoning when playing a good pc was that the place "Looked suspicious" (especially from the hosts "greeting")so I decided to investigate, because if they were indeed evil people me and Minsc had some "RIGHTEOUS BUTT-KICKING FOR GOODNESS" to attend to. Turns out I got attacked while investigating and had to defend myself. Just like any good-natured person would do. I was attacked by beings from other planes and figured what I suspected was correct. So I went to extract some answers and got attacked. Me and Minsc kicked them all right in the EVIL, and walked away content we had probably stopped them from doing any evil acts anyway.
Many different ways to RP, limiting yourself to one, nay limiting yourself at all is due to your own lack of creativity. That's what Rp'ing is all about...how do you think? Do you use your imagination? Are you creative?
Besides you are limiting your thought processes again. Here is another take on how a good PC might go through the events.
The person in the stronghold could have worded his greeting better. My reasoning when playing a good pc was that the place "Looked suspicious" (especially from the hosts "greeting")so I decided to investigate, because if they were indeed evil people me and Minsc had some "RIGHTEOUS BUTT-KICKING FOR GOODNESS" to attend to. Turns out I got attacked while investigating and had to defend myself. Just like any good-natured person would do. I was attacked by beings from other planes and figured what I suspected was correct. So I went to extract some answers and got attacked. Me and Minsc kicked them all right in the EVIL, and walked away content we had probably stopped them from doing any evil acts anyway.
Many different ways to RP, limiting yourself to one, nay limiting yourself at all is due to your own lack of creativity. That's what Rp'ing is all about...how do you think? Do you use your imagination? Are you creative?
#24
Mael
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- Member
- 84 posts
Posted 30 October 2002 - 05:35 PM
You think it would be trashing it. Maybe other people would actually enjoy a well written Vampire romance? Rather then just "getting into a Vampire's pants."All of you would rather trash up a good mod just so you can get into a vampires pants, rather then see the character continued with great dialoge in TOB. Befor you even bother saying you want BOTH, go out and make your own vampire romance. I would personaly download it as long as it's well written. I just don't see a romantic interest needed in the Valen mod.
And seeing as how Weimer has left it open to debate, obviosuly he is considering it. So until he decides that a romance is not that way he wants to go, obviously people are going to talk about it and won't consider their ideas to be "trashing" Valen.
My 3 cents.
This way? That way? Which way?
#25
Dark Phantom
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- Member
- 85 posts
Juna's true master
Posted 30 October 2002 - 06:29 PM
again, I might make it possible with MY NPC, Juna, to make her a vamp (Good for the story line, I like to think it is well written, not just sex....) Again, see the discuassion at the link bellow, even add to it! Of course, Wes is far better, and Valen might be far more fun, but it would be "The best of both worlds", or the best compromise.
#26
-Guest-
-Guest-
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- Guest
Posted 31 October 2002 - 01:51 AM
My point is you must understand the full scope of RP'ing before you say someone is Rp'ing their role wrong. A scope that, judging from your writing, you haven't got the foggiest idea about.
As long as I can back up what I'm saying, my Rp'ing is valid. Your assertion that "Romancancing" (or as i prefer to call it "Seducing") Valen is against Rp'ing is idiotic and narrow-minded. The PC is evil, he wants someone evil at his side, what better than a vampire under his control? I don't give a crap about where she gets her blood from, as long as it's not me, and with all the fights the PC gets in Valen would be well-fed. She wouldn't need to "feed" on me, and should she betray her master she's done for and she knows it.
Being evil is more than killing everyone you meet. Being evil takes more skill than being good. Rp'ing is a complex subject matter and one could write volumes explaining it. Suffice it to say the you can RP on any end of the spectrum you wish.
What you described is not romance as I understand it. You want to control Valen. Make Valen a tool. Is that a romance ? To borrow your phrase, from your writing, you haven't a foggiest idea what a romance is.
I may not understand the full scope of RP'ing as you view it, but that doesn't I can't see what is right or wrong. As you mentioned yourself you need to take things into context when RP. Have you taken into context what kind of character Valen is ? In case you forgot, romance involves two people, both of whom must have the same feeling towards each other. People wants to romance Valen, but does Valen wants to romance the PC ?
I know there is more to RP'ing evil than just killing everything that moves. My post regarding the guarded compound was not about the killing but what triggered the killing. The PC had to wipe out everyone because he was attacked. Fine. But he was attacked because he was trespassing. Infact the PC was given the option to leave the building. So in my limited RP'ing experience, a good aligned PC should not be in the building in the first place. Second the PC should have left the building when asked.
If my RP'ing understanding of that is wrong, then please correct me where I was wrong.
As Quitch said, if people wants to fall in love with a vampire, they can create one. Leave Valen as she is.
#27
Auvrin
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- Member
- 171 posts
Posted 31 October 2002 - 02:19 AM
I'm not Quitch..?
Of all things in this world... Our self built cages, are our worst design of hell.
Fear me simply because I'm blunt and honest.
*WARNING* I am rated R for suggestive themes and violent material. If you need a warning label don't leave home, cause there isn't a warning label on your front door.
-Pain is beatiful.-
Fear me simply because I'm blunt and honest.
*WARNING* I am rated R for suggestive themes and violent material. If you need a warning label don't leave home, cause there isn't a warning label on your front door.
-Pain is beatiful.-
#28
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 31 October 2002 - 02:28 AM
Ooops, sorry.
I though Quitch once said that. Maybe not here though. I could be mistaken.
My apologies.
I though Quitch once said that. Maybe not here though. I could be mistaken.
My apologies.
#29
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 31 October 2002 - 02:49 AM
My point is you must understand the full scope of RP'ing before you say someone is Rp'ing their role wrong. A scope that, judging from your writing, you haven't got the foggiest idea about.
As long as I can back up what I'm saying, my Rp'ing is valid. Your assertion that "Romancancing" (or as i prefer to call it "Seducing") Valen is against Rp'ing is idiotic and narrow-minded. The PC is evil, he wants someone evil at his side, what better than a vampire under his control? I don't give a crap about where she gets her blood from, as long as it's not me, and with all the fights the PC gets in Valen would be well-fed. She wouldn't need to "feed" on me, and should she betray her master she's done for and she knows it.
As I said, check out the link bellow. I might, FOR ROLEPLAYING REASONS, make it possible to make My NPC a permanent vamp, NOTE: NOT as powerful as valen, who was unbalancing. And she is initially a slave... So it would not be as much a change. Again, Wes would be far better, I am positive, but an idea. Here I am using my own creation as a "diplomatic peace :)"
#30
Dark Phantom
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- Member
- 85 posts
Juna's true master
Posted 31 October 2002 - 02:51 AM
As I said, check out the link bellow. I might, FOR ROLEPLAYING REASONS, make it possible to make My NPC a permanent vamp, NOTE: NOT as powerful as valen, who was unbalancing. And she is initially a slave... So it would not be as much a change. Again, Wes would be far better, I am positive, but an idea. Here I am using my own creation as a "diplomatic peaceMy point is you must understand the full scope of RP'ing before you say someone is Rp'ing their role wrong. A scope that, judging from your writing, you haven't got the foggiest idea about.
As long as I can back up what I'm saying, my Rp'ing is valid. Your assertion that "Romancancing" (or as i prefer to call it "Seducing") Valen is against Rp'ing is idiotic and narrow-minded. The PC is evil, he wants someone evil at his side, what better than a vampire under his control? I don't give a crap about where she gets her blood from, as long as it's not me, and with all the fights the PC gets in Valen would be well-fed. She wouldn't need to "feed" on me, and should she betray her master she's done for and she knows it.
"
Edited by Thorium Dragon, 03 June 2005 - 06:23 AM.
#31
-KaPe-
-KaPe-
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- Guest
Posted 31 October 2002 - 07:35 AM
Just my little suggestion - if you decide to make Valen "romanceable"(or sth) then make it optional... After all, some would prefer to simply have a cold-hearted killer by his side, than a "seducing" vampire lady... And yes the "control" part sound fairly nice, after all I don't expect a walking corpse(face it, that's what she is 
) to "seduce" me 
) to "seduce" me
#32
Nutter
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- Member
- 3 posts
Posted 01 November 2002 - 10:45 PM
from what i got from the conversations between valen and roger the fence, and valen and rose bouquet - i suppose somewhere under all that chaotic evil exterior might be someone worth redeeming... maybe her alignment could possibly be changed from CE to CN via a mini-side quest
a valen romance on the other hand is hardly necessary - she's a great character with great depth already
and she's also what the game sorely lacks - a superb thief
a valen romance on the other hand is hardly necessary - she's a great character with great depth already
and she's also what the game sorely lacks - a superb thief
#33
Spideyknight
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- Member
- 24 posts
Posted 02 November 2002 - 12:08 AM
"What you described is not romance as I understand it. You want to control Valen. Make Valen a tool. Is that a romance ? To borrow your phrase, from your writing, you haven't a foggiest idea what a romance is."
Look "Guest" I didn't read all of your response mainly because I don't need to, since in one fell swoop I'm going to invalidate everything you said anyway.
I call it "Seduction" not "romance", it could be a romance if that's the way you want it, but a romance between an evil PC and an evil Valen likely isn't going to go far. However you "seducing" her, or her "seducing" you could have some merit. So next time before you go off on a tangent, READ. Thanks.
Valen maybe a walking corpse, however many vampires are known for their ability to charm humans, male or female. Remember if a relationship were to work between these two it couldn't be a lovey dovey boy meets girl type thing. It would have to have some twist, that attracts two evil people to each other. Be it by their own free will, natural abilities, etc...
Look "Guest" I didn't read all of your response mainly because I don't need to, since in one fell swoop I'm going to invalidate everything you said anyway.
I call it "Seduction" not "romance", it could be a romance if that's the way you want it, but a romance between an evil PC and an evil Valen likely isn't going to go far. However you "seducing" her, or her "seducing" you could have some merit. So next time before you go off on a tangent, READ. Thanks.
Valen maybe a walking corpse, however many vampires are known for their ability to charm humans, male or female. Remember if a relationship were to work between these two it couldn't be a lovey dovey boy meets girl type thing. It would have to have some twist, that attracts two evil people to each other. Be it by their own free will, natural abilities, etc...
#34
-Dashael-
-Dashael-
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- Guest
Posted 02 November 2002 - 09:41 AM
I was waiting for some sort of consensus, but it looks like that will never happen.
Was there a consensus on romancing Solaufein? I never thought of him as a romance option until I saw first came across your website. I would suggest perhaps that you keep the idea on the back-burner and if a believable romance scenario comes to mind then proceed. Trust me, if Sola's dialog is an indicator even the nay-sayers will probably enjoy a Valen romance.
Anyhow, since when was this ship a democracy Captain?
#35
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 04 November 2002 - 01:31 AM
"What you described is not romance as I understand it. You want to control Valen. Make Valen a tool. Is that a romance ? To borrow your phrase, from your writing, you haven't a foggiest idea what a romance is."
Look "Guest" I didn't read all of your response mainly because I don't need to, since in one fell swoop I'm going to invalidate everything you said anyway.
I call it "Seduction" not "romance", it could be a romance if that's the way you want it, but a romance between an evil PC and an evil Valen likely isn't going to go far. However you "seducing" her, or her "seducing" you could have some merit. So next time before you go off on a tangent, READ. Thanks.
Valen maybe a walking corpse, however many vampires are known for their ability to charm humans, male or female. Remember if a relationship were to work between these two it couldn't be a lovey dovey boy meets girl type thing. It would have to have some twist, that attracts two evil people to each other. Be it by their own free will, natural abilities, etc...
Well, you tell me to READ your post, yet you failed to READ mine.
If you bothered to read my post, I was oppose to a romance option for VALEN. I did not oppose a romance mod for a VAMPIRE. I even said that a SEDUCTION is possible for VALEN.
It is pointless talking to you since you don't listen or read what people say or write.
#36
raven
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- Member
- 33 posts
Posted 05 November 2002 - 12:06 PM
Well, I'd vouch for a valen romance... but maybe not in the normal sense... even demonesses and such sometimes do seek consort to plot great evils together B)
#37
Trau
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- Member
- 36 posts
Posted 05 November 2002 - 06:24 PM
I don't see why all these people are against it. If you don't want the romance, fine, but why should others have to go by your standards of roleplaying? The point is to have as much fun as possible.
#38
Kish
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- Member
- 1265 posts
Posted 05 November 2002 - 07:12 PM
Likely because they think Valen is a better character without being willing to romance/have sex with/whatever CharName.I don't see why all these people are against it.
"If you do want the romance, fine, but why should others have to go by your standards of roleplaying?"If you don't want the romance, fine, but why should others have to go by your standards of roleplaying?
Making Valen willing to romance (or whatever) CharName is a change in her personality. It naturally appeals to those who think it would be a good change, and unappeals to those who think it would be a bad change. Your argument seems to hinge on the false premise, "RomanceableValen is everything NonRomanceableValen is plus more." If Valen becomes willing to romance CharName, then she is no longer the same character as the current Valen.
http://www.moveon.org/fox/
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change."
--Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan
#39
Spideyknight
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- Member
- 24 posts
Posted 05 November 2002 - 09:10 PM
Guest I did not read your post(at the time) because your first statement was moronic. As is your response, but we'll not get into that.
"If you bothered to read my post, I was oppose to a romance option for VALEN. I did not oppose a romance mod for a VAMPIRE. I even said that a SEDUCTION is possible for VALEN."
I read your post and no where in it does it say, a seduction is possible for Valen. But I don't care. What I replied to was your statement saying what I was describing wasn't a romance. No duh, I wasn't trying to describe a romance I was trying to describe a way that the PC might have a relationship with Valen, and I termed that Seduction.
No where did I say you opposed a romance for a vampire and I don't care that you oppose one for Valen, if you think a seduction is possible for Valen then fine, why were you trying to debate? It was quite obvious I wasn't describing a romance, why did you have to bring that up? We have nothing to debate, I thought a seduction, not a romance, was a good idea and you think it's possible, so we are in agreeance. End of story.
"If you bothered to read my post, I was oppose to a romance option for VALEN. I did not oppose a romance mod for a VAMPIRE. I even said that a SEDUCTION is possible for VALEN."
I read your post and no where in it does it say, a seduction is possible for Valen. But I don't care. What I replied to was your statement saying what I was describing wasn't a romance. No duh, I wasn't trying to describe a romance I was trying to describe a way that the PC might have a relationship with Valen, and I termed that Seduction.
No where did I say you opposed a romance for a vampire and I don't care that you oppose one for Valen, if you think a seduction is possible for Valen then fine, why were you trying to debate? It was quite obvious I wasn't describing a romance, why did you have to bring that up? We have nothing to debate, I thought a seduction, not a romance, was a good idea and you think it's possible, so we are in agreeance. End of story.
#40
-Another Guest-
-Another Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 05 November 2002 - 10:53 PM
It seems a lot of people on this board think of valen as a mindless murderer robot with a program not a brain (yeah I could have said "too much instinct" but it would not make her any brainless, at least in the way I think some of you see her.. as an animal, could even have been the "valen figurine" instead of the valen NPC)
When I first saw the valen mod I donwloaded right away, thought "great, now this seems to have all the potential to be a wonderful evil NPC"
I was wrong back then, shes just a new "weapon" you gain from body, and not much more than that. I'm not here to stalk you weimer or anything, some of her speechs are intriguing, and maybe what do I know ? Maybe shes exactly like you wanted her to be, but I became so sad to see all of valen potential as a character waste away for her oh so completely empitness of self (and neither am I saying somebody should agree with me, I play mostly CN anyway, this is my point, my tastes, my vision, my bullshit).
I side with some that turning her into somebody wich requires from you (as an RPG player) some more feeling, thought and emotion (and mainly interaction) rather than some tactical tool you just send away in endeless backstab campaings at everyone in your way could only be a change for the better. I dont care if its valen romance, redemption, seduction, gangbang, or 300 new more lines of banter with jansen about his turnip hater, garnic farmer cousing, whatever gets the job done. Right now I wont force myself to think anybody that doesnt want interaction is part of the RPG hating mafia, after all BG is a computer game and if somebody want her to shup up and follow the commands its alright, or if some think she is too brainless or addictive to blood to harvest a feeling its alright.
So if you decide to do some add-ons sometime wes I know that at least you wont in the slightest chance be missing contributions and gratitude. And if you decide for that can you at least make her less godlike ? There are times that valens presence make the game as an RPG and tactical game not fun (or rather not challenging before I step on somebody that finds fun to kill everybody easily), at least I can improve my fun factor by removing her claws.
Just those 3 cents.
Changing the subject a little, has anybody watched queen of the damned as of late ? What do you ppl think ? Does it have a place alongside with the classic Interview ?
Best regards for all.
--------------------------
A kiss to make her numb, but al the love in the world.. cant save her from herself.
When I first saw the valen mod I donwloaded right away, thought "great, now this seems to have all the potential to be a wonderful evil NPC"
I was wrong back then, shes just a new "weapon" you gain from body, and not much more than that. I'm not here to stalk you weimer or anything, some of her speechs are intriguing, and maybe what do I know ? Maybe shes exactly like you wanted her to be, but I became so sad to see all of valen potential as a character waste away for her oh so completely empitness of self (and neither am I saying somebody should agree with me, I play mostly CN anyway, this is my point, my tastes, my vision, my bullshit).
I side with some that turning her into somebody wich requires from you (as an RPG player) some more feeling, thought and emotion (and mainly interaction) rather than some tactical tool you just send away in endeless backstab campaings at everyone in your way could only be a change for the better. I dont care if its valen romance, redemption, seduction, gangbang, or 300 new more lines of banter with jansen about his turnip hater, garnic farmer cousing, whatever gets the job done. Right now I wont force myself to think anybody that doesnt want interaction is part of the RPG hating mafia, after all BG is a computer game and if somebody want her to shup up and follow the commands its alright, or if some think she is too brainless or addictive to blood to harvest a feeling its alright.
So if you decide to do some add-ons sometime wes I know that at least you wont in the slightest chance be missing contributions and gratitude. And if you decide for that can you at least make her less godlike ? There are times that valens presence make the game as an RPG and tactical game not fun (or rather not challenging before I step on somebody that finds fun to kill everybody easily), at least I can improve my fun factor by removing her claws.
Just those 3 cents.
Changing the subject a little, has anybody watched queen of the damned as of late ? What do you ppl think ? Does it have a place alongside with the classic Interview ?
Best regards for all.
--------------------------
A kiss to make her numb, but al the love in the world.. cant save her from herself.
