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Valen Romance

Started by -Ziad- , Oct 29 2002 03:02 PM

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#261 boo&minsc

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 05:39 PM

first of all i must confess i haven't read most of the replies... there are more than 200!!! i already lost half afternoon to give my opinion to the balancing thread... lol
btw, english isn't my native tongue... so :rolleyes:

arrrrgghhh... finally jerr said it all... i thought i was the only one to see it that way...
these are only options!!!! ROLEPLAY... ROLE PLAYING GAME how many times is required to say it?
for (;;) { ROLEPLAY... THIS IS A ROLE PLAYING GAME }
you aren't forced to follow this path... you don't have to romance her, to de-vamp her...

almost everyone posted their opinion on if she would romance/ de-vamp /stay-the-same because of this or that... any role player can find a storyline that justifies it... heck, i bet 2 or 3 people here could even get a story for Valen to de-vamp and turn into a priest or cleric...(i know i am... and i don't even play p&p games) -g- stop being so biased

although i don't entirely agree with the plot, the medal sure goes to Aroc, it seems he was the only one that wrote some new options(only text for now) for the mod... making it more roleplayable for some people... if you don't like it, don't play it... or better yet... choose the dialog options you find fitting for you Charname




now for the real content... what is really needed in the mod, as for role playing sake :P :

give her more interjections and banters... these can/should be a plentora of them... AND they should be different from Charname aligment
A ) "i admire your power & brutality Charname... you'll make a God a thousand times more worthy of the title Lord of Murder than your father" - Sarevok pops in and "bahh... he's a weakling... just let me get my chance"
B ) "your good deeds just make me sick... maybe we need to change things here... Edwin, care for a conspiracy plan?" - also possible, she could attack you; only stopping after below X HP


(remember! role play! for crying out loud)
the interesting thing in the paths bellow is that you can get to choose from more than one 'ending' based on your aligment; since there is the duality of good/evil/neutral and lawfull/chaotic/true)

abuse her - you are an EVIL aligned bastard(you killed kenny lol :P )
there's no love in this. you find her atractive and want a brutal sex relation with her... you abuse her, rape her, et cetera... treat her like garbage and she loves it
- a possibility also: you abuse her too much and she steels(magic, enraged bite, you put it here to justify that) 2 CON to you. and you can only get those 2 CON back by killing her. hey? :) now this is roleplay.... the funny thing is the gamer will try to know what/when he did wrong for him not to loose 2 CON, and reload an older saved game, lol... but the event has long occured :)
ohhh... and of course the PC doesn't know how to get those 2 CON back... even better: if she steels those 2 CON and the PC kills her, PC gets 3 CON (this weakens the option of the player loading a previous saved game and dump her before & strenghens your evilness... chaotic evil change anyone? :) )
if you treat her like garbage(but not abusively) she bites you... granting some vamp powers to you; i don't know... maybe immune to level drain or perm negative plane protection (TG Maestro rebalancing needed here ;) ) this happens before it's usability disappers(this is, no sense in giving negative plane protection when no more enemies are going to level drain you) but if you screw up in the next dialogs you lose that ability forever and Valen may or may not leave the party for good

seduce her - you are NEUTRAL
as the aligment suggest it, you would have to be nice one day and rough the other... but you're the one in charge
her alignment would change to "CHAOTIC NEUTRAL" maybe?
on a crazy night you kiss-bite her and drink a tiny bit of her blood, gaining immunity to poison and disease maybe? (im not sure if the poison-disease imu happens in ToB, if so: change it)

be seduced by her - you are NEUTRAL
encore, but since she's the one in charge your aligment would change to EVIL
Valen - "are you really interested in me? do you find me exciting? lustfull?"
PC - "yes... blahblah.." 'charname kisses Valen'
'while kissing Valen bites you' 'you perm lost 10 HP' 'Valen perm gained 10 HP'
Valen - "i know can trust you.. you have proven yourself to me"

redeem her - GOODie hero / male or female
you always say the right thing, dont give her space for evilness(no more biting)... ask about her past, try to understand and give a new vision to her... fight a wicked(very difficult) 1-on-1 battle for her, letting her see the goodness of living kind :) lol

romance her - you always loved strange relations... CHAOS is your random middle name
you're crazy... you follow your hormones :) hehehe
your replies to her are almost random... sometimes you let her kill, sometimes not
but at the same time always transmit some interest in her
you are romancing her... but is she really romancing you?
you dont get no special ability/feat... and at one battle(why not a 'family' vamp reunion) she turns against you...
if you kill the enemies and forgive her: she really starts romancing you (but doesnt stop being evil or killing some innocents)
if you dont forgive her: romance is over... or the fake/hollow/cinic romance continues

de-vamp(redeem is included) & romance her - GOODie hero with hormones on fire :P
this should certainly be the hardest(battle aspect) and most difficult(banter aspect) of all the paths... i talked about role play above, but... i think we all agree that de-vamping ain't the same as changing aligment... it's a lot harder from a fiction point of view (i understood as de-vamp to stop being a vampire)... you're changing race... and living status! :) lol
you can redeem someone by talking, romance by talking, but to de-vamp... some uber magic must come at reach... a major hard battle is required... something like... a kangaxx & friends... lol... i don't know exactly, but it should be very hard
IMO the de-vamp should only happens in ToB and it's not obligatory(you could only redeem and romance her)
a wicked dialog path must be taken for this to work. you love her and are trying to redeem her... but OTOH you cant see her suffer and so let her have a snack (and since you're good, -2 rep each time you let her bite someone)
after de-vamping she changes aligment to NEUTRAL + Charname modifier & she would keep most of her powers, loose some and gain others (ex: loose the drain level and negative plane protection; +20% slash/bash/pierce resist)
Charname would gain also... hmmm...? immunity to fear? or maybe mind spells? 'you dont fear nothing... you don't move an inch to achive your goals... nothing, neither nobody can change your mind/will because your heart has a place with Valen... you know you are safe with her'




phiiuuu... this sure steels some time... -g- i hope it will have some use... lol

we all know that nobody is going to implement all this... there are a bunch-o-rama of possible dialog and events able to happen for this to be a positive 'upgrade' to the mod... but if someone(or several groups of someones) writes the dialogs and estipulates the events for things to happen(like Aroc did), great of the work is cutted out... leaving only the programming (i never modded, but i think that having the dialogs and events defined; it won't be that hard or a massive work load)
but still, some modder would have to be interested in doing it, and i doubt Weimer as the time for it

#262 WatcherDarkfox

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 04:22 AM

I've not read all the posts in this thread, ehh, so sue me I'm lazy... :P

At one point I was designing a mod... unfortunatly real life put that on hold... and I'm not sure if I've got the paitence to get back to it any time soon... grrr

Well here's my view on this, don't get angry with me it's just an opinion, and you know what they say about those don't ya? Ya know, everyone's got one and all?

Right, Valen is evil, no doubting that, to have Valen in your party you must aslo be evil, hence embracing your true nature, I feel romance as in a pink haze love is seriously out of the question, it's not possable, but as a person who's palyed an evil character in on-line RPG's I've seen that a dark, twisted form of love can be done in context and effectivly.

Lets see... you've just fought a really hard, long drawn out battle, the body count from which doesn't have to be high, just difficult, blood is pumping, adrenaline has risen and Valen and the Evil PC are basking in the empowering feeling that comes with wholesale slaughter on this degree, Valen then looks at you with a predatory gaze and proceeds to pounce you and pin you up against the nearest wall... as the two begin to claw and tear into each other (In a good way of course) the rest of the party bring them back to their sences, although Valen being evil wouldn't be embarrassed by this, there would be strange, changed manner about her, being more wary of the PC for a time, then with time, the two could become closer. (but again not with what could be considered typically romantic dialouge, it could be something as twisted as a flip sarcastic comment here, a snide remark there. All the time making it obvious the two are comming closer to each other without being an out and out romance. (I personally don't think evil characters would react well to normal courses of romance but would over a more subtle amount of time 'grow' on each other.)

Well that's my two pennies worth, bad grammar/spelling and all... enjoy :D

#263 -Jurgenaut-

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 05:44 AM

[I haven't read the whole thread so if I say something that's already been said.. dun flame me :P]

Everyone is all about lets redeem the vampire! (the same vampire who ate Valygar the only time I tried her in the party :P)
If I'm evil enough to pick her up and have her in the team, why not drive the "romance" on a different track. Why not have her vampirize you? A vampiric bhaalspawn, with boosted stats and allergy to daylight. Maybe it wouldn't be as much a "romance" thing, but you using her to increase your power (evil evil!).
Of course, you'd earn a LOT of enemies.. Drizzt, the temples, paladins, etc.

(I'm not sure if you can script the PC in that way though..)

#264 Bane

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 08:01 AM

Why not have her vampirize you? A vampiric bhaalspawn, with boosted stats and allergy to daylight


Cos it would be a real pain not being able to play the game in daylight because there are two handicapped people and also wouldn't it be possible that the part-God of you would repel vamparism?
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#265 -kinneer-

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 02:07 AM

My vote is no to a romance, but yes to giving her more depth. One thing I really like to see, which has been mentioned before, is her interaction with Imoen after Bodhi's death.

I was disappointed at Valen's banter with Bodhi the second time. I would have though that Valen would have sided with the PC and would look forward to killing her former mistress. Valen should recognise by now that the PC is a match to Bodhi, so she is in a powerful group. Being evil, one method of getting to the top is to remove those above you. So Valen could take over Bodhi's clan by removing her.

Finally, with Imoen getting her soul back, Valen may feel some tie with her. This may conflict with the above but would present another avenue to expand Valen's character. How will she cope with having Imoen as a mistress, so to a speak.

#266 Bane

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 04:51 PM

I would have though that Valen would have sided with the PC and would look forward to killing her former mistress


I completely agree to that, she is looking out for one person alone, HERSELF, I don't think she would romance as an equal (she would want to be in control). So its just me saying romance may not be needed but her character should be more in depth.

Personally I hate chaotic evil people because of my goody goody nature but I do know my enemy ;)
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#267 Andyr

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Posted 14 February 2004 - 05:35 AM

I haven't read the whole thread

Everyone is all about lets redeem the vampire!


I have nothing to add, just thought this was funny. :) If you can tell what's in a thread without reading it, I'm impressed.
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#268 Jurgenaut

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Posted 14 February 2004 - 07:57 AM


I haven't read the whole thread

Everyone is all about lets redeem the vampire!


I have nothing to add, just thought this was funny. :) If you can tell what's in a thread without reading it, I'm impressed.

lol yeah, that is kinda impressive :)
But seriously, I read like 2-3 pages and subconsciously made a statistical image of the thread. I don't like valen, because she tried to eat valygar. I had to kill her on the spot. She's supposed to be my vampire on a leesh, not running around enforcing her own agenda (which is eating).

How do you redeem the irredeemable?
"Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes,
working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we dont need.
We have no purpose or place.
We have no great war, or great depression.
Our war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives." - Tyler Durden, Fight Club

#269 Bane

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Posted 14 February 2004 - 03:23 PM

How do you redeem the irredeemable?


Work twice as hard at redeeming? :D
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#270 -Ventura-

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 11:29 AM

Alright, I?m probably getting into this way too late, but here?s my long-winded two cents.

I think it would be cool to be able to romance Valen.

Here?s why:

Nobody is one hundred percent evil. Some people, like say, Neb, are really close, but nobody?s all one thing or the other. Everyone has shades of grey.

(On a weird sidenote, wouldn?t that be a way more evil, rep-destroying mod than Valen? The Neb NPC?)

Even if you?re evil, you can?t spend all your time kicking puppies and burning down orphanages. Evil people are still people. They have basic emotional needs like everybody else, just twisted in odd ways.

So Valen is a monster, as a Bhaal-spawn, you aren?t exactly normal yourself. Plenty of people would call you a monster, even if your PC was the holiest of Paladins. (And, if you?re looking at picking Valen up, you probably aren?t)

I keep Korgan in my party. Let?s compare the two of them.

Korgan kills for money, because he enjoys it, and because he?s good at it.

Valen kills to eat, because she enjoys it, and because she?s good at it.

If you take out the two they have in common, who?s really more evil? Somebody who kills to survive, or somebody who kills because you had, in his judgment, too much gold in your pocket.

Korgan stays with the PC because the PC keeps the bloody fights, the treasure, and the excitement coming, and because it?s (in some ways) safer to stand with the PC than alone, and definitely safer than standing against him/her.

Sure, Korgan might put an axe between your shoulder blades one day, for an enormous sum of cash, or just because you pissed him off, but that?s part of the price of being evil. Until that day comes, though, Korgan and the PC will happily hit the tavern together for a beer, some wenching, and the occasional skull-cracking brawl.

Now, I don?t feel the need to romance Korgan, but that?s because he?s male, four feet tall, and smells icky, not because he?s a tad bit psycho.

Valen, I think, would be much the same way.

She initially follows the PC because her Mistress wishes it, but along the way, she could have come to enjoy her time with the party, (assuming you play a properly evil group, and keep the bloody fights and the excitement coming, that is) and the PC?s company, finding you, and your divine blood and propensity for violence and large-scale mayhem and carnage rather intriguing.

Rescuing her from the Vampire Hunters when you could have, conceivably, run away and left her on her own, or worse, just turned her over to them, (Hey, you are evil, it?s more than possible you could have just saved your own skin at her expense) could be a turning point too. The fact that you didn?t could spark at least some grudging gratitude from Valen, like keeping Viconia from being burnt at the stake does.

In the wake of her Mistress? destruction, she?s adrift, and clings to the PC for lack of other options. This would be the point at which the relationship would really kick in.

Clearly, it?s not going to be an Anomen, reciting bad poetry and staring deeply into each other?s eyes romance, but I could see Valen and the right PC having a fling, or becoming a ?friends with benefits? type thing. You?re both intelligent, physically compatible, and have similar interests. So she?s undead, she?s not some mindless ghoul. She?s got a brain, and emotions, and can make decisions based on her head and heart. (Even if it doesn?t beat)

Admittedly, you?d probably have to keep doing things that keep your reputation down in the dirt to keep her interested, (I can see Val breaking off the romance if your rep even climbs to average) but if you?re the right type to be doing this, you probably don?t mind at all, and would, in fact, do those things for your own amusement anyway.

Yes, your other NPCs should be sufficiently weirded out by this, especially if you have Imowen with you, but most of them should probably know better than to challenge you about it.

It would be interesting to see what the Master Wraith would conjure up to throw at Valen if you were in a relationship, her Mistress probably, assuming Val couldn?t see right through his illusion.

Maybe at the end, if you to take your place as the new God of Murder, Valen could become your new high priestess, and start a cult of vampires in your honor. Or, if you chose to give up your godhood, probably to Val?s disgust, she could bite you, and the two of you could go off to unlive happily ever after.

Well, questions, comments, cries of ?Shut up, noober!??

Remember: Evil people need romance too, and when you?re bored with the Drow, the only thing to do is find something more dangerous to sleep with. ; )

#271 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 07:16 AM

I?m probably getting into this way too late...

Nah, your never too late. :)

This thread is on its 10,000th view! Clearly that shows there is an undying (get it ;) ) interest in the topic of Valen as a romanceable character. :ph34r: :wub:

Hopefully the thoughts on the final product of the Valen Expansion will produce as much long-term interest as all the fun of the speculation and hypotheticals have been so far, and continue to be.

Generally speaking, I think your points are all solid and we seem to be in agreement that evil relationships can and do function, albeit under a very different dynamic.

#272 -Dalis'ilhea-

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 07:54 AM

Well I've been reading this with interest, and finally decided to say something and possibly get kicked in the nagers but I do agree that a romance may be possible, I mean I almost always play a fighter/priest lawful neutral/good but I did play a priest of Talos and he was a nasty piece of work and was admitibly a lot of fun

a general sumerisation would be something along the lines of him saying to someone
"Angry? No, I'm not angry, but you however are rather well done"
the Talos kit gives you the ability to cast lightning bolt which probably explains this dialoge. But thats besides the point the point is, is that I think that he would have intriged Valen enough to get some sort of reaction

#273 Krimmy

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 12:20 PM

I can't wait for this mod, thanks Thorium!

I definitely think that Valen can be redeemed however it should be a very difficult task but not impossible, hell this is the realm of magic and the gods "anything is possible" hopefully it's pulled off well(no pressure) :D

#274 -Guest+1-

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 11:23 AM

I'm sure I'm too late and that most of this has already been said but I got tired of reading after page three and just skipped to the end.

I haven't actually played the Valen mod yet so I'm merely speaking of a hypothetical vampire named Valen in AD&D accompanying a traveler who is tainted with the essence of the God of Murder.

If said vampire was merely an animal, incapable of love or any other romance-mod emotion, there's still the blood addiction. Vampires need blood to survive and if we temporarily break AD&D and jump to White Wolf for a moment there are different tiers of blood potency. I think it's logical to assume that a Bhaalspawn's blood is pretty damned potent. Even animals know when they're outmatched, Valen might not risk attacking the PC, yet her craving for Bhaal's essence could pull at her psyche until she attacked. Assuming the PC wins and doesn't kill Valen she would have tipped her hand and the PC (assuming he's intelligent enough) would realize that controlling Valen was as simple as tempting her with his blood and beating her down if she stepped out of line. Eventually, this would form a love/hate dependant relationship between Valen and the PC as she craved the blood he rewards her with but all the while loathing him for controlling her.

On the other hand, if Valen was capable of emotion it's possible that she actually loved Bodhi despite her treatment and that upon Bodhi's demise Valen's desperation led to the transference of her devotion onto the PC.

Both scenarios leave redemption and romance (or some corrupt form of it) open. I think a vampire would, with some convincing, follow her master's command and not drain every person in a village. Maybe (depending on the INT of the PC) he would only be able to convince her to spare children using some logic about the adults having more blood and that nothing is better than the corruption of innocent children by making them watch their parents get drained of blood.

I certainly wouldn't redeem Valen but a wider range of possibilities leaves all parties happier.

Oh and as for an Imoen romance thing. That's as plausible as the rest, given her Bhaalspawn nature. Maybe even a multi-tiered romance where Imoen is Valen's keeper but the PC keeps Valen in line and corrupts Imoen with the power over Valen he gives her. After Imoen's torture any light-heartedness is probably just a thin veil hiding her darker torture-riddled Bhaalspawn-tainted personality.

Of course, in the end we're all talking about 1's and 0's that represent the words our imagination uses to manifest fictional characters based on the knowledge given to us through background and banter. So y'know it's really a matter of how intact your imagination is. If you can imagine Valen romance scenarios you might as well just lie down on your bed and imagine you're a Bhaalspawn romancing Valen it'll be the same (if not better) than arguing over whether someone else should create fantasy worlds for you. Seriously, ten pages of arguing whether it's even plausable to romance a murderous vampire. What I don't understand is why people are fighting it. It's not like Wes is going to write something like "and then ya do stuff... at her special parts." If Wes does decide to write a romance I'm sure you'll either like it or not have to play it. Let those whose imaginations are stunted have a little enjoyment from "teh h0t s3xxy v4mp1re grrl".

#275 -Guest-

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:36 PM

[quote name='Piker' date='Oct 29 2002, 04:17 PM'][quote name='Auvrin' date='Oct 30 2002, 01:21 AM']A better question would be; Do you still have plans for adding dialoge and a hell summon for Valen in TOB?


Romance... Redemption....

As much as I enjoy Valen as a character... She's a vampire... Not only that, but she's a cold blooded killer.  In my mind, someone this evil wouldn't even consider a romance. (and the fact that your group is evil for having Valen in the party would make the PC evil as well.  If not you're just cheesing the game.)  The PC being evil would NOT trust Valen at the end of a leash let alone in a romance.  Redemption... Why?  Part of what makes Valen so interesting is the FACT she is so evil.  (and yes, I know this has been debated over long and hard, but... It's almost common sense factors at play here.  Not to mention I would rather see Valen have continued dialoge in TOB rather then nit picking the idea's of wether to romance/redeem her  :rolleyes: )  Just my opinion as always.[/quote]
My PCs are usually TN or evil. I don't enjoy playing goodie-goodies, I find my options too constrained. I like that Valen ends up making her party behave more evilly ... romancing a vampire, though, has a way of being unhealthy.

So please add her to Fate Spirit so I can stop CLUAing her in ;-) Bu tI don't see a great need for a Valen romance. [/quote]
My pcs are good and i think that having a romance with Valen is a great idea just as great as have a romance with Viconia![QUOTE][SIZE=1]

#276 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 10:29 AM

My PCs are usually TN or evil.  I don't enjoy playing goodie-goodies, I find my options too constrained.

My pcs are good and i think that having a romance with Valen is a great idea just as great as have a romance with Viconia!

PCs across the alignment spectrum will be able to influence Valen in the Valen Expansion so hopefully players with either preference will find value in it upon its completion.

Mod in Progress: Valen Expansion

#277 -Random Rpger Guy-

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 02:20 PM

ok, firstly the sole fact that most people bring is either A) She is mindless
which she happens to not be for her ability to speak and make rational choices, ergo she is not mindless.
B) she is a vampire and cold blooded killer, now psychopaths can have fixations, but I believe Valen is a sociopath in which she knows what "right and wrong" is, she just chooses the evil path. Now Hannibal Lector is a sociopath, now for the people who have seen silence of the lambs, Hannibal is a very cruel and sadistic dude, yet he still craves something, power. Power over others and he lords over it, with his keen powerful intellect.
Now for being under control of Bohdi she has shown she does have some free-will of her own, just when confronted by her, she looses almost all of it. So when alone she has free-will...
Now being intelligent, atleast to some degree she understands where the power is at, the Pc just kicked the crap out of Bohdi and happens to be in line to be the new lord of murder, that which is most likely a plus in her mind. Now I ask does the rational mind do this or this:
A) You the Pc just killed my mistress and have the blood of gods in your veins, I must kill you for taking the life of my mistress.
B) (valen thinking to herself the odds) *finally realizes she is outmatched* #then realizes the pc has a chance to be the god of murder itself# Then realizes the pc has a sex drive,A) in which firstly wanting power she would try and seduce, if failure B) then try and be submissive. So when the pc attains godhood which valen will definately want to happen, Valen will either be A) The seductress with power B) the loyal concubine the right hand of murder
both of which give great perks and lots of power.
C) Valen being afraid of freedom for the first time she runs off.
Now I can see C as being a plausible choice, but a coldly logical, efficient, unaging and cunning vampire might see B as a "good choice" especially choice B part A then part A.
So there really wouldn't be a romance, it would be more of a seduction/submission relationship, like a wacky bdsm relationship. Yet there "could" be a happy ending in which the pc chooses godhood, but if the pc doesnt choose godhood, it would be very terrible, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" fits nicely in that picture, that sociopathic vampire, who happens to be a woman, would be very pissed her time and efforts were wasted, now the pc no longer having gods blood in his veins would most likely be weakened and valen kills him.
And for those who say Valen wouldn't like the pc at the time because his soul isn't there, well the fact is the Pc DOES transform into the avatar beast of the lord of murder, the slayer. Valen sees that, how could Valen not logically believe he is not destined to become the new lord of murder.
So its A B or C, and I think Logic dictates B :rolleyes:

#278 -Guest-

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 02:26 PM

If said vampire was merely an animal, incapable of love or any other romance-mod emotion, there's still the blood addiction. Vampires need blood to survive and if we temporarily break AD&D and jump to White Wolf for a moment there are different tiers of blood potency.

oh yah Guest +1 the standard AD&D vampire does have emotion and the whole nine yards of it, The setting Ravenloft, Count Strahd Von Zarovich, is like a Vampire Paragon over 1000 years old, he still has love, lust, misery, regret and remorse for the love of his life and the murdering of his brother.
So that statment about vampires incapable of love would be null and void.

#279 -Random RPGER guy-

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 02:28 PM

now forgive the smileys at certain points they were ment to be a break or the start of an active thought I didn't mean them to be smileys in mid-sentence. my bad...

#280 -Random RPGER guy-

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 09:51 PM

Now Auvrin you also stated earlier that Valen is just a "mindless killing machine" now I have already proven the fact she isn't mindless, for the sheer fact if you remember how she treats Roger the fence, she treats him with some semblence of respect for she remembers when she was a kid Roger was one of the only people to give her a fair price on stolen goods. If she had no will, as if Bohdi has complete control, then she wouldn't have said a thing to Roger let alone a compliment, for what does Bohdi care about some "worthless cattle" ? Ultimately it proves she is a sociopath not a psychopath, and yes People now-adays who the majority of people believed who were monsters like joeseph stalin... are sociopaths, they know right and wrong but do the evil act...
as proof Valen and the little boy delon in the government district, she asks if he went alone, and then went to kill and feed on the boy, She knows its evil but does it anyone, a psychopath doesn't know it is wrong, kinda like that star something mod, Though a psychopath would be more like TN: I'll give you reason why....
Also the problem is people don't really play their alignments correctly, for something to be "truely evil" you need these three things to come into being:
1) You must Know its evil.
2) You must want to do it.
3) You must do the act itself.
Without all 3 it isn't evil, if you don't know what the evil is then it is just naiveness coming into play.
if you don't want to do evil but it happened anyway, kinda like accidental murder, like you don't see a man and you hit him with a car, you didn't want to do it.
3) you think it, you want to, but don't do it...
Now as i stated earlier why Valen might persue interests in the Pc, Power...
now I'd like you all to answer these questions to yourself,
Evil in the D&D mythos is attracted to power and having the loss of life,
Q)So why does Edwin follow the Pc?
A) for the power of his divine heritage. he states it at the end of tob... he wants to have the Pc look to him fondly and say "Edwin that bastard helped me ascend and is a person who has a smart and keen outlook on life, I'll give him my blessings for helping me into power."
Q) Why do all the evil people tell the Pc to ascend? (includes viconia)
A) They want to be known as the people who got him greatness and want a small piece of his "power pie"
So one of the sole motivators of evil people in D&D is power itself, so Valen seducing a potential god, is a great way of garnering power... thus the "twisted romance" should be atleast possible.
Now Auvrin I must confess that I do most whole-heartedly agree with you that redemption is NOT possible, but that is just my thoughts, I have rambled on long enough...
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