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Valen Romance

Started by -Ziad- , Oct 29 2002 03:02 PM

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#121 serjeLeBlade

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 08:47 PM

There's no need to move.
People interested in the matter are here already.
Master Weimer was asking for some kind of consent, but...
"To Ask is not very like as "To Get""
:rolleyes:

There's people who want more *Valen*under these undoubtledtly stormy skyes, master.
Are they going to get more?

#122 -Morgoth-

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 04:55 AM

A romance is bad for one she is the enemy duh! And two she's undead. Kinda sick if you want to romance a corpse.

#123 foogla

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 07:59 AM

BG2 Mods - For all your Necrophelia and Incest needs!

*sheesh*

Now where is that Cernd romance, we could add Bestiality to that slogan ("Dude! He's a WOLF!!").


Also technically she isn't a corpse, she is an uncorpse. :P

#124 -ou812-

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 06:41 PM

:huh:

#125 -Cybersquirt-

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 03:42 AM

You know.. after reading this thread and thinking about it for a few days, I'm really liking the idea of a Valen seduction. Isn't that what we read about vampires? They seduce, albeit to feed, but they seduce none-the-less. Why not try to seduce for power as well? You're a spawn of Bhaal, after all, and that kind of power lures many into it's web. Or, perhaps it only serves to get you in over your head. :lol:

Not a romance, period. Not a redemption/reclaimation.. there's enough goodness out there and more on the way. She'd always be evil.. *maybe* get her to NE as opposed to CE once you've established youself as her new master/mistress.

Lots of enticing banter, but 'bedding' is dangerous but more likely impossible. Jaheira would leave the party in disgust; Viconia might be intrigued by her; Haer-Dalis... :chuckles: ..he would live or die by her command. Ditto for a CN A-no-man.

I absolutely love the idea of seducing someone to evil if they're "fool enough to take her" when they're not evil themselves. If she fails in her attempts, she leaves. The idea of her staying with a Paladin is just plain repulsive. The idea of going on hunts is a great one! Your Bhaal avatar would overcome you. And discipline.. :snickers: ..maybe you allow her to feed off of you as a treat. And presents... "bringing her pretty young boys" as someone said. Sinister.. yessss. I bet there are some things she'd love to do with Bohdi's heart, even if it's just gorging on it. That'd successfully end all other romances.. :D

Okay, enuf'a that. Guess I should actually play her now, hmm? :blink:

#126 Michel

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 09:14 AM

Hmmm, a soft nibbeling neckbite! Hmmmm :lol: :lol:
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#127 -Zaus-

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 12:42 PM

I agree with cybersquirt, IMO a seduction is perfectly plausable, though you definitely shouldn't be able to redeem her. She's more like a machine or a weapon at the moment, as has already been said. Hmmm, I've just had an idea. Perhaps if the PC was one of a few certain classes he could be vampirised. A vampire bhaalspawn. THAT would be powerful. Why ascend with all the fun a half-vampire-half-god could have in Faerun?

Feel free to disagree.

#128 -Cybersquirt-

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 05:48 PM

This was another though b4 you posted Zaus, so it's more a response to my own post :)

..you know she hungers for you but beyond her facade lurks a dread beast. She searches your face pondering the offer you've just made. '...do you not realized that once my lips have tasted your blood you will become as I?! ((Well, I hadn't thought of that)) Fool. You do not want this life. You have power enough to kill Bohdi and more! And it is pure. That which lies in me reeks of murder much akin to your own but you cannot know what it means to lust for blood knowing that the motivation behind it is survival. You can kill and revel in it if you wish, I must feed and be satisfied knowing that I will live another day like a [junkie]. It tends to take all the fun out of the kill when you realize you're a slave to it.'

I, personally, don't wanna see a vamp transformation.. but it could be built into the price to be paid I guess :unsure:

But would Valen be willing to do it? ;)

#129 Hendryk

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 06:40 PM

If she turns the PC, who's gonno be the boss vampire afterward? Not the PC the way these things normally go.
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#130 Trau

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 09:12 PM

Maybe the PC, being a Bhaalspawn, could be a master?

#131 Hendryk

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 09:22 PM

Would you bet your Unlife on that?

Thinking about it thought, that could be an interesting 'romance' quest; an Undead PC trying to get out of the control of his/her slayer/"lover".
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#132 Kish

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 09:38 PM

As far as being a Bhaalspawn making a difference, I would expect that the PC, being a Bhaalspawn, would crumble immediately upon death and never become undead.
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#133 -Cybersquirt-

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 02:20 AM

Remember too, that the PC is an (undeveloped/unfocused) bhaalspawn, not Bhaal himself. Kish makes an interesting point, especially if the PC doesn't have 'his' soul.

Vampire lore is well established. Valen is loyal to you by her word, not your blood, so Valen would be mistress. The only way to wrest control from your mistress is by killing her. Period. While I'm sure it would appeal to Valen, having YOU loyal to HER (hahahaha), would that really be in her best interest? Slayer's pretty potent from a tactical standpoint. When she's been given more character developement, would she actually do it? I'd like to think not, despite your in-game reasoning/pleading ;)

However, I think she ought'a suck a good/neutral character dry :D

And are y'all really that desperate to become vampires? Yer already a spawn of Bhaal, that alone makes you a killing machine. :P

#134 -jcompton-

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 06:57 AM

Vampire lore is well established.

Although that's not terribly relevant where Valen is concerned. In an old "...but REAL vampires are blah de blah!" thread Wes once told us that she might be an avatar of Cyric instead of a vampire for all we know.

#135 -Cybersquirt-

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 01:11 PM

Well, I was going by Valen's own words: that she was on the streets when Bohdi's minions found her and thus Bohdi made her. The game establishes Bohdi as a vampire so Valen is a vampire.

:huh:

#136 -Sam K-

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 06:52 PM

Would it be possible to have a romance with Valen? If you're sick enough, yeah.

Can you redeem her? Not without roleplaying so horribly bad that you should be hit over the head with a rolled up encyclopedia britannica.

Valen is evil. And she acts on it. There's no way anyone good(not really anyone neutral either) would put up with her. She's not just a bad person. She's a bad person who kills children. By the time you've had her around long enough to be able to redeem her, you'd have killed her if you had any decensy in you. Sorry, no redemption for you.

Romance, however, could work if you're sick enough. Being evil doesn't mean being unemotional. In fact, most people who are evil are simply greedy and selfish, and do evil things cause its convenient or because they enjoy it. Evil does not eliminate desire.
Now, just throwing in a romance in the Valen mod wouldn't work. It wouldn't be much fun, and it would probably ruin the Valen we know and love(well, I do). A romance would have to go with her character development. This would not be a minor undertaking, but I think it would be worth it(largely cause I dont have to do the work).
Remember, for all her power, Valen isn't use to thinking for herself. She has been conditioned to serve for all of her unlife. This is a habbit thats hard to break. Also, she's going through some very shocking experiences. First her mistress betrays her, then some second rate hero she's been tagging along with KILLS that very same mistress. This is not a minor change of lifestyle, its overthrowing everything she belived in. The natural reaction would be to cling to the most stable thing in her (un)life; the PC.
This shouldn't mean that she stops being an evil psychotic monster; she merely becomes an evil psychotic monster that serves the PC. This isn't a happy ending romance as such. She wouldn't proclaim her love for you, she'd fall on her knees(yay!) and swear to serve you(awww, is that all?). I can see two paths of the 'romance': one where you take controll and boss Valen around like you should, and one where you guide her towards developing free will(hoping that she'll grow more powerful that way, no doubt). There could even be an alignment shift if you take controll, but not towards good but towards lawful. Maybe you're better at keeping her on a leash than Bodhi was?
If you dont care at all about her("You can tag along if you want, but I dont care one way or another about you, and I sure wont be your master!"), it'd be a blast having her turn to Imoen. Could make for hillarious conversations.

Mmmmmm... Imoen dominating Valen....

Ehh... gotta go... need a cold shower right now!

PS. Probably lots of typOs. Im not dyslexic, just ignorant.

#137 jurts

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Posted 24 February 2003 - 12:07 AM

I think that the option for a "romance" with Valen would be welcome. Those that have moral issues with that - remember you do not have to do the romance, you can tell her to bugger off /I hope/. For example I do not like Imoen's romance due to the moral dilemma, but I play the mod anyways, because it is interesting.

So, to sum it up: if you can make the mod more attractive to some folks, in the same time not annoying those that would find a romance with Valen morally wrong /as stated, you are not forced to romance her/, why not do it?

Certainly, the romance conflicts would be quite funny... I would like to see Valen biting Aerie's neck or Vicky turning Valen...

#138 -Guest-

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Posted 24 February 2003 - 07:39 AM

It's a fine idea. I still have a problem with it, though.

Vampires in the Forgotten Realms aren't like Vampires in Dracula, Anne Rice or Buffy. They're not humans suffering from a plague or a curse. In the Forgotten Realms, Vampires are REAL monsters. They've got a direct link to the Negative Energy Plane, for crissakes. Something said by Galvarey comes back to me... when he says the PC is akin to a Beholder, or a Mind Flayer. It's a similar case. Valen has no humanity. There's nothing in her that is attractive or redeemable or even fathomable from a human standpoint.
You could, for example, write a MOD that allowed you to recruit the Spectator from the Underdark as an NPC, or Simyaz the Githyanki - but a romance with them would be out of the question. Not because of their physical shape, but because their culture, thoughts and beliefs are so wildly at odds with yours. There is no common ground. He's a Beholder, he's a Githyanki... she's a Vampire.
That's why I think a romance with Valen wouldn't work. You're killing her utterly alien nature by making her understandable, and that takes away the whole point to her being a vampire. That's why I wouldn't use it if it became available. I'll grant you, you may have different beliefs and opinions about Vampires and how they work, but for me, Valen is definitely a no-no.

#139 -necro-

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Posted 24 February 2003 - 11:11 AM

i couldnt have wright it better.

#140 Samuel Coyote

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Posted 24 February 2003 - 12:55 PM

And so the neverending debate continues. Good thing too, I've missed it! I completely agree that vampires shouldn't be humans with fangs and that Valen shouldn't become 'just another NPC, only much more powerful'. Thats why Im strongly against the option to redeem her. Anyone mention turning her back to human and I'll put a stake through your right big toe(it hurts more than you'd think... or so Im told).
However, I dont think Valens alien mindset makes it impossible to romance her. Consider the stuff having Valen in your party will lead to: killing a bunch of innocents, fighting the forces of good and order, making deals with demons, and generally raising hell. Hah! Good fun! You'll end up with a rep of 1 and lots of blood on your hands(unless Valen licks it off... now THATS a lovely image!) However, there's no way a good or lawful person would keep Valen around. While a good person migth tolerate Korgan or Edwin because their skills were needed. They talk big and have bad attitudes, but mostly do what they're told. Valen runs around killing children, even when you tell her to behave. See the difference? Only someone fairly evil and unconcearned with anyone else would keep Valen around.
So what we have is an evil Bhaalspawn and a sociopatic vampire. She has connections to the negative plane? The PC has connections to the lower planes. Sounds like a match made in the abyss! In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Valen seems like a far more suitable romance option for an evil PC than any of the original romances. Viccy is all talk and bitchyness, but lets see her handeling the slayer in bed! :lol: Ofcourse, as its been previously stated, romancing Valen wouldn't be pretty. Perhaps there'd finaly be a romance where you could tell your vict.. err, partner to shut the f*** up and do as you say, and the romance would actually progress from it! No more damn therapy or whining, just sex and violence! Could make for some interesting lovetalks too. While Valen doesn't come across as the deepest person, she has a decent int(and it keeps improving), so she should be able to handle some advanced philosophical debates on the nature of power and other such things.
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