31 replies to this topic

[The Outlaw Torn]

One of the most promising mod ideas in the old FWP forums was the Mod for the Wicked; a mod to give evil PCs a greater range of choice in their play, so that they have essentially the same options that good PCs have.  This mod had a great deal of discussion on it, but sadly Matimus left it before it could be completed... and that was six months ago.

I think it's definately a worthwhile mod, but of course we run into the problem of having no one to code for it.  However, there is still a great deal of information on the other Mod Ideas forum that I could copy over if there is any interest.

So, are there any of you who would like to see what this Mod could look like?

[T.G.Maestro]

I would. Great idea.

[The Outlaw Torn]

Hey, that's all the encouragement I need

In no particular order, here is (what I considered to be) the edited highlights of the old thread. Enjoy!

A further idea had is that the body of Imoen, after the ritual of sacrifice, remains in the Abyss and does not decay. Valen takes note of this and soon you notice the body go from a corpse, to a fleshy corpse, to a skeleton to a pile of bone to just a skull.

At some point, you take notice and mention this to Valen as this happens when you sleep in the pocket plane. She greets you with a leering, sexy 'Heya' in mockery of Imoen's favorite greeting. She explains that since your bloodlust has proven to match hers and the taste of a Bhaalspawn was so 'sweet', she just felt she HAD to consume her entirely to make sure she got ever last drop of power and be closer to the PC.

A vampire making a pass on you, though this isn't the start of a bizarre romance.

The remaining skull could be turned into an evil amulet item by Cesperar for Valen to wear. The "Skull of the Sibling." Probably gives her the ability to cast some low end magic or something.

Also - after you kill Melissan, regardless of what you decide, Imoen looses her taint and becomes normal again. Not a problem for Imoen but a big problem for Valen; a death sentence. So you must fight Valen, one on one, to the death. I'm sure she'd like to split the Bhaal essence and you both Ascend, becoming the Lord and Lady of Murder and that could be an option. Or you could want it all for yourself, like a truly evil git you are.

Valen, being a Vampire, probably figures she is a better avatar of murder and deserves the prize, being a Bhaalspawn and all too and just as deserving.

(my first 'monster post' in the thread, with comments)

Waukeen?s Promenade:

The Circus Mission ?

The only change I can think of to make here would be to add, ?I don?t care about these people, let me leave? and ?Kill! Kill! KILL!? leaving everyone, including Aerie, Quayle and Kalah dead. After all, what evil party wouldn?t want the Ring of Human Influence?
-I?d be interested in knowing who or what empowered Kalah in the first place. The ?I guess we?ll never know?? line never satisfied. (Note: although I think UB has done this)

Maheer the Hornmaker ?

An option to change what he does to the horn. Instead of summoning up a Berserk Warrior, could he perhaps summon up a Demon instead? I think it?d be pretty cool to have, as the final upgrade, a critter that kills Maheer to complete the upgrade.

Slums:

Cohrvale and Bregg ?

Just some more evil options in the dialogue when fighting these guys. The standard drill.
-As posted before, I?d love to know who ?Mr. F? is. Anyone who?d employ a homicidal maniac like Cohrvale would be worth knowing.
-Indeed. Perhaps a note left on their bodies would suffice? I'd find it incredibly amusing if it was signed, 'Mr. F K Gaxx', but that's because I'm twisted and wrong.

Slave Escort ?

An option to take a bribe to ignore the slave escort?
-That?s not very enterprising. How about an option for the party thief to follow the guards and discover to whom the slave is being delivered? Not Lehtinan, too obvious. Maybe a noble is buying the slave for use as anything from a new stable hand to a human sacrifice in a devil-worshipping cult. However far afield you want to go here, really.

The Copper Coronet ?

Lots of stuff that can be done here. In no particular order:

1) Nalia
This should tie in to the Evil de?Arnise Keep quest. The only thing I?d change here would perhaps be someone coming up to you after speaking to Nalia, offering you some money and rulership of the keep if you hand Nalia over to Isaea. Only if you?re evil though.
-How about "Only if you turn down Nalia"?

2) Anomen
An evil party would want to take on Anomen just so that they can goad him into becoming evil. Although I haven?t pursued the evil path with Anomen before, it?s quite probable that he needs improvement in that area. It?d also be very cool to have suitable ?messing with your head? stuff as options for conversation with Anomen.
-"You didn't actually believe me when I said that I loved you? I just want your body" should fit the bill nicely (AFTER he has fallen, of course).

3) Korgan

Not much really needs to be done with him? Maybe more interaction/sympathising/?clicking? with him from an evil PC? There could be some quite humourous dialogue in here, with the appropriate author (hint: not me) .

4) Firkraag

Again, this is something that can be dealt with later. The only change I could think of making is giving evil characters the option to express their disdain for doing something out of the goodness (or evilness in this case) of their hearts, and letting Firkraag reveal a bit of his ?true personality? in the bar.
-For Korgan, I doubt he should be as friendly or as easily controlled as he actually is in the game. Just because he and the PC are both Evil is no excuse for his good behavior. After all, he?d just been in another Evil crew and is fresh from killing three of them and leads the party to killing the rest of his former comrades. I?d like to see him developed as more of this sort of violent, disruptive force in the player group.
-Agreed. Perhaps if he had scripting like Valen, wherein he randomly attacks people from time to time, it might be more realistic. I also kept waiting through the game for the time where I'd sleep, and when I woke up one of the NPCs would be gone, run away or killed or captured or something. Maybe Korgan could offer that.
-For Firkrag, maybe some extra lines here about what he means by ?discretion? or ?finesse? or whatever word he uses. Don?t want him to give away too much, though.

5) The Slaves

Obviously a lot that needs doing here. The current evil option, that is telling Lehtinan about Hendak?s treachery and getting them all killed, seems a bit limited. As a second option:

You tell Lehtinan, they go to kill Hendak only to find that they have escaped on their own and fled through the sewers. You pursue, at Lehtinan?s insistance, through the sewers. This lets you do all of the cool sewer quests in there. Upon getting through, you find that they have been aided by some of Hendak?s countrymen and have taken over the Slaver Stockade, putting all of the guards there in the places where the slaves were. PCs fight barbarians, and if they get to the door of the stockade they can bash open the door, evening out the odds a lot more. Once all barbarians are back, Lehtinan gives you quest exp, items, and your very own slave girl/guy for your own personal useage. Could either be a typical beaten background character or a joinable NPC with a very interesting background. THAT could have potential now that I think of it?
-I agree about the Evil limitation here. However, the mechanics of dealing with Hendak and the other rebellious slaves don?t grab me. Lehtinan does interest me, though. He?s just a third-tier punk in the Athkatla underworld hierarchy but ?getting to know him better? should lead the party to more important contacts among the thieves, slavers and smugglers in town. Ultimately, I?d like to see the party take over the CC as a stronghold after removing Lehtinan themselves. Besides the drugs, prostitution and pit fighting, there would be plenty of room for ?private? spell casting in the sewer basement, problems with the guards and Cowled Wizards, maybe even a chance to take over the whole district (after the planar sphere) and become a genuine slum lord. All of this would serve also as a power base for playing politics with the town and then the national leaders.

Government District:

Lynch Mob and Viconia ?

Only thing here would be a dialogue change so that you can threaten all of the people who are shouting out, ?Burn the Drow!? and such so that they go hostile and you can kill them as well.
-My only problem with this is that, logically, it should turn the whole city against you and your PC won?t be tough enough at this point to take everyone on. Personally, if the PC?s charisma is high enough, I?d like to see a flimflam option whereby the party doesn?t even have to fight the bigots with the torches. Getting Viccy away but leaving them alive to work further mischief would seem nasty enough for my tastes ? especially if the point is emphasized in the first dialogues with the drow lady.

Government Building ?

For a VERY heavy bribe, you should be able to stop always having Cowled Wizards and Amnish Legionaries attack you when you have a low rep. The cost should be about double what it is to raise your rep to about 8, from 1, at a temple. In other words,
-This sounds good, but remember that the player must raise 20k to advance the main plot. If the bribe amount is in the same range and the evil quest resolution cost reputation, its unlikely that the PC would be able to give the bribe before hitting rep 0 or 1, which would result in a very fusterating game.

Delon and the Umar Hills Quest ?

Again, just some more evil options for dialogue. From now on, I won?t mention this, as evil dialogue should be added as it is seen fit by the modders, and isn?t really worth the space or effort to type it up.

Docks District:

Shadow Thief Guild/Mae?Var?s treachery ?

Most of what can be done here has been mentioned already, so I?ll just briefly recap it here. The basic idea is that, after a conversation with a party member/outside character/some other trigger, the PC gets the idea of betraying Renal to Mae?Var, and improving their influence and standing, not to mention power. It?s already pretty much been covered above.

Xzar and the Harpers ?

It always bugged me that Xzar came back and you couldn?t get him in your party or anything. He was cool in BG1, even if he was psycho, and I think he should?ve been utilised more. So?

All of the rescuing Montaron stuff is doable, as it is an evil quest. The one exception is the bit with the apprentices; you should be able to spare them, much as you do the svirfneblin in the Underdark. Anyway, for an Evil party there should be an option to either figure out what?s wrong with the bird that they think is Montaron before they give it to Xzar, or he figures out/has a chance to defend himself. From there, it would be a good addition to get him in your party, preferably reunited with Monty. I could just imagine their banter with, say, Korgan, or Valen? mmmmm
-Thoroughly agree here, if Jaheira?s not around. An extended duel with the Harpers would be especially entertaining if combined with the Copper Coronet stronghold where, to remind, Bernard is a Harper agent. It would also have the benefit of involving the Zhenterrim as a possible counter-weight to the Shadow thieves and Twisted Rune. After all, the more Evil masters there are in town, the more freedom of choice the PC will have.

Cromwell ?

Give him the option to upgrade more items, or corrupt the ones he can upgrade so that they have an evil side. I would love to see a corruption of the Equaliser, which instead of having bonuses the further away from TN you get, have bonuses increase the ?gooder? the target gets. Lots of possibilities?
-I'd rather see an alternate blacksmith. Cromwell always struck me as a "good" character.
-Maybe instead of Cromwell appearing, you meet Kohguz, an Evil dwarven smith who?s some distant relation ? probably hostile ? to Korgan. That would make for some interesting haggling between the two since Kohguz would want to raise his prices for any group with Korgan in it.

Kangaxx ?

It would be interesting to use KX as a link to the Twisted Rune, as since he is a Lich he should probably have some affiliations with them.
-There are plenty of liches who aren?t affiliated with the Rune. Also, Kangaxx himself has been on ice for centuries and doesn?t seem disposed to cooperation with anyone else. More likely, the party would get Twisted Rune brownie points by snuffing the arrogant creep and returning the shattered bits of his skull to TR headquarters. There the bits could be reformed, making demilich Kangaxx a slave to whats-his-name.

Bridge District:

Serial Skinner ?

Already mostly been mentioned. I have nothing to really add to this. Just put it here so that it was not forgotten about.

Twisted Rune ?

There should be an option to talk to the TR more than you can do, currently, considering that the people in that room are the most powerful members of the TR locally. It would be interesting to get on their side, as has been mentioned,
-The Rune definitely deserves more attention. I?ve got a game-play kind of problem with them, though. They are *so* powerful and the only ?official? explanation for their presence (controlling trade) is so mundane that they never feel right to me. I?d think that a group like this would be aiming for nothing less than a total sacrifice of every living creature on Toril with a view to becoming gods. Something on that scale anyway. So I don?t think that long-term cooperation with the PC ? who?s destined for a similar goal ? is at all likely and I think the Runies would probably recognize that fact before the PC does. Thus, I?d say that their interest in the PC would be much too much like Irenicus? for smooth sailing here.

Temple District:

Temple of Talos ?

The party should have some more evil dialogue with the clerics in the temple. This could be a good spot to put any new evil items. Perhaps even a new PC could be in here? Lots of chances for small things.
-This would probably be the best place to put a link to the evil blacksmith, among other things.

Slave Lords ?

I never quite figured out why those guys are there, but surely there?s some common ground that they and an evil party could have. They could serve as a link to the TR as well.
-Because I?m not wholly comfortable with the Runies and also because I like the ?divide and conquer? approach to Evil masters, I?d rather have these guys be independents; maybe agents of the Rundeen (a Calimsite merchant consortium whose tactics are like the Iron Throne?s in BG1). I agree, though, that they?ve got to be fit in somehow. Isaeah is the most likely link although it?s possible the PC could work up to meeting them through the slavers in the slums. It?s also possible that the FP?s could cooperate with these guys. Otoh, the party could off the slave lords to remove a competitor of the FP?s (and get a nice, ironic, reputation boost for the deed.)

Radiant Heart/Fallen Paladins ?

It?s already been brought up to have the option to support the Fallen Paladins against the Radiant Heart. I just wanted to say this again because it?s such a cool idea. Since the Radiant Heart is a Paladin stronghold, the Fallen Paladins should provide an anti-Paladin stronghold. Some ideas:

1) Since the original stronghold required you to have first saved Garren?s child, the FP stronghold should therefore be conditional on gaining the support of Firkraag. Besides just being really cool to have an ally in a red dragon, I?d imagine that the FP would feel they?d need some backup.
2) The first mission should be something along the lines of rescuing or bringing to the FP a group of other fallen paladins, perhaps in the graveyard district or something, with a nice fight and a bit of dialogue. After all, what?s an evil plot without a fight? The reward should be something appropriately evil, such as getting to execute the leader of the people imprisoning the other FPs personally.
3) Next mission should be about getting some magical backup, as the FP are more open-minded than their Good counterparts. This could tie into the TR potentially, if the PC has already talked to them. If not, the FP could always say, ?Hey, we want a lich to help us out! Meet those Twisted Rune folks to see if they want to help us!?. Eminently doable. Reward could be XP and maybe a spellbook or ring or some other magical item? Nothing too powerful, just enough to have fun with.
4) The final quest for the good guys is guarding Tyrianna, so an evil flipside that?d be cool would be capturing someone that was getting in the FP?s way. Not too sure on who, exactly, but it?d be cool. Once this is done, the reward should be a standing position in the FP, a nice magical item (poss. a sword?) and lots of XP.
-This is only place where a kit might be worthwhile -- since you don't start at level 1, there should be a way to make your character "fallen" from the beginning (with a non-LG alignment). Perhaps a fighter kit? As an alternative, there should be a way to fall almost instantly once the game starts, perferably with a way to choose your alignment.

-Lots of nice, twisty touches here. My only suggestion would be to release the additional FP?s from a new area of the city jail itself. The mission couldn?t be a straight-forward assault; that would raise an alarm and defeat the purpose. A combination of bribery, sneaking and hostage-taking (the prison warden?) would be needed to keep things ?officially? quiet enough to succeed. Then in the sewers or back at FP headquarters, there would be an option to a) kill the hostage; B) torture and kill the hostage or c) let the hostage go free unharmed. The first option would be the safest, the second would invite a quick, and huge, reprisal but no long-term problems while the third would permanently alienate all the government officials and Good NPCs (since in this case, they?d know, unofficially, who did the deed although it would be too embarrassing to the government to allow it to become an official matter) leading to lots of harassment and frustration but no ?official? riposte.


Cult of the Eyeless ?

This has also been discussed. I?ll leave this to what has already been said. Suffice to say, the actual plot of destroying the cult appeals just as much to an evil character as it does to a good one, so the resolution is the only thing that needs changing. <insert cult here> The only change I could think of making to the quest is having the Rift Device useable outside of killing the Unseeing Eye, in an evil manner.

Evil Party ?

There should be an option here to say, ?Ease off, why are you here? Maybe we can figure something out?? If they?re a party of adventurers, it stands to reason that they?re there for something, and an Evil party might be more amenable to working with them, and vice versa. What if the Evil party is trying to steal the Hammer of Thunderbolts from the Illithids in a hope to form Crom Faeyr? If the corrupted items idea is pursued, they could be pointers to the item that is required to make Crom Faeyr suitably evil. The key from Tazok is of course required to open the door, but perhaps the super-strong dwarf that travels with them can bash it open, or the combined power of the two parties can? The party goes with them, fights Illithids, and steals the Hammer of Thunderbolts. Then there can be an appropriately evil ?Let?s fight over the Hammer now? fight. This?d make things easier for the party to get the Hammer, as Illithids are rather tough for a pre-Spellhold party, and lower the numbers of the other Evil party. All is good.

-They say they?re hiding here. Probably some crime gone wrong. Maybe they need a magistrate bribed to clear the charges or a witness murdered. In return, they could serve as muscle to keep your stronghold secure while you?re out adventuring. Then, they could prevent some problems (like peasant revolts over taxation at the DeArnise Keep) but cause others (their mage fiddled with the guardian golem in the planar sphere and now it?s hostile; they run up a huge gambling debt in the CC, etc.)


Nalia and the De?Arnise Keep.

Isaeah, through an intermediary, arranged the troll invasion for the purpose of killing Lord de?Arnise and putting ownership of the estate up for grabs. He planned to be the ?hero? who rid the place of trolls himself and then cement his claim to lordship by marrying Nalia. Then Nalia got lucky in her choice of mercenaries so Isaeah doesn?t get to play hero (but is saved a lot of bother). The PC would only become of interest to Isaeah when Nalia refuses to marry him. Then, instead of the present kidnapping, the PC would get a proposal to slip a will-sapping drug into her wine. If the PC agrees, the Isaeah-Nalia wedding follows, Nalia leaves the party permanently and the PC becomes an increasingly trusted crony of Isaeah?s; involved in all sorts of little schemes, of which the first would probably be the quiet murder of Corgeig Axehand. This would quiet Corgeig?s suspicions of Isaeah and open Corgeig?s job for Isaeah; two birds with one stone. From there, Isaeah could serve as a source of information about persons, places and groups in Athkatla and would have occasional jobs for the PC. The last of these might be the murder of his father before the old boy can disinherit him or the murder of an older brother to secure the entire estate for Isaeah.


Mekrath and Haer?Dalis ?

I?d like to see an option that allows you to keep Haer?Dalis as a slave, but I can?t think of anything at the moment. Ideas?

Graveyard District:

The Open Grave ?

I think it?d be cool to have an option here of, ?Yey, I?ve saved your life, you?ve told me everything about what happened, now die,? for an evil party. With the pleasure from the pain thing, I think it works. Of course from here there?s the evil path of ransoming the Lady Elgea for the Silver Pantaloons. There should be more of an XP bonus than there is currently.
-The ransom attempt should be more successful than it is currently (either the guards only show up if the player attempts to shake her down for more money, or the guards simply don't show up).

Wellwyn the Haunt ?

Not too sure what to do here, aside from the pre-programmed ?Ha ha ha, I have your bear but you can?t get it!? path. In this case, you should have more of an XP reward than you get currently.
-Capture the spirit (in the bear?) for use in magic item creation.

Kamir?s Charge ?

An Evil PC would be fairly pissed off at only being able to give the little girl to a Paladin, but they would delight in giving her to someone who is evil. They could, say, tell the TR/Bodhi/Shadow Thieves/FP/any other evil group about her, have them take the girl in forcibly and kill the priest. Lots of XP.

City Gates:

Hanj the Racketeer ?

For an evil party there should be the option of intimidating the merchant yourself, getting some gold.
-Better still, have the merchents attempt to bribe the guard fail (or look like its failing), and let the PC intervene on the merchents side (non combat, of course).

The Crooked Crane ?

In the Aulava and Tiiro romance here, a very evil idea is to have all of the encouraging the love dialogue options, then either killing or maiming one of them. Mwuahahaha?

The Lich ?

Again, another chance for TR connections to come into play/start.

(from Fluke)
An end to spontaneous disappearances, the slaves in the underdark and Mazzy?s family are perfect examples of this absurd phenomenon. It?s cruel to deny us the joy of hunting them down.
On a related note, it might be amusing to secure a memento or two from the remains of Mazzy?s family, something to keep her company as she rots in the Shadelord?s dungeon?

Potentially sacrificing the rift device to a dark deity, or perhaps consigning it to the Planar Sphere for future study. Either would most certainly prolong the torment of Amaunator?s faithful, and this could tie into another idea of mine.

So long as the people of temple are bound to the earth, the Hate manifestation will continue to feed. The character could perhaps, by virtue of divine lineage or arcane ritual, bind this spirit to their own and tap into its power thereby. The effects of this could be utterly intangible in a mechanical sense, perhaps simply imbuing the character with a sense of otherness that would draw the previously suggested cultists to them. On the other hand, perhaps it would enable to the character to exercise greater control over their Slayer aspect, slowing the rate at which they suffer damage in this form or perhaps halting it altogether. The implacable nature of this entity might also impart similar traits to the character, rendering them immune to fatigue and enchantment. Dream sequences could be an interesting side effect of this, and perhaps a chronic risk of reverting to the Slayer every time you rest, ala Spellhold, as you become more intimately attuned with it.

What with all this talk of npcs, Neb comes to mind. Or maybe the PC could have his corpse reanimated to serve as a less conventional sort of familiar.

The opportunity to keep one?s lover in their semi-vampiric state, perhaps wielding Bodhi?s heart as the instrument that keeps their bloodlust in check.

Silver Dragon scales from Adalon?s corpse, though perhaps to be fashioned into a cloak or a pair of gauntlets rather than armor.

More bargaining options with the Lesser Abyssal Lord in the Underdark, perhaps calling upon him rather than Rillifane to shatter the temple door?s wards, or using him as the source for the lore necessary to successfully bind and exploit the Hate manifestation.

This one isn?t mine, but I?m pretty sure I didn?t hear it here so it bears repeating? Enslaving Yoshimo?s departed spirit through his proffered heart or an item fashioned from it would be a fitting way to repay his treachery. Similarly, it might be worth granting us the opportunity to carve out his heart before we set sail? As plants go he?s not very subtle after all, so what?s to stop us from preempting him?

Allowing for one?s to familiar burrow into the flesh of unconscious enemies, perhaps as a potential source of cheap healing. Similarly, perhaps it could even evolve under these conditions near the end of the game.

Though it?s a fairly minor thing, I?ve always been irritated by the fact that you have to give the nobleman outside the Copper Coronet the genuine directions to the hostage?s whereabouts. Perhaps you could allow us to lie to him and deal with her as we see fit afterwards?
I agree with Torn that an evil option to the open grave incident would be appropriate, though I?m not sure proceeding from the victim?s rescue is necessarily the best way to go about it. It would be a good spot for a gloating banter with Korgan or maybe Viconia, and perhaps near the end you could notice the gravekeeper huddling against the building, clearly jarred by your callous mirth. From there you could interrogate him as usual, minus the red cloth of course, but he might be so intimidated that he?d volunteer more answers than you bothered to ask for.

The option to persuade/goad the Ghoul Lord and his people to swarm to the surface en masse, wreaking bloody havoc throughout the Temple District and perhaps further regions of Athkatla before they are put down.
Perhaps you take control of any survivors afterward, directing them to propagate themselves amidst the sewers and slums of Athkatla.

One could potentially force Keldorn to do all manner of unconscionable things if his family were at the PC?s mercy, perhaps resulting in his execution and ultimate disgrace due to the nature of your demands. This could tie into the Cult stronghold, since I imagine the Order of the Radiant Heart would be among those that stand against you and Keldorn?s forced actions could at the very least strike a significant blow to their morale.

The opportunity to seize that rotten little Brynnlaw pickpocket and slowly drown him in Umberlee?s altar would be nice, especially if you could force his sister to watch? and while you?re in the neighborhood, perhaps you could also sell Aerie and Nalia to Lady Galvena.

For the Underdark, capturing a few living samples of the Kuo-Toa?s young might be fun. It?s a pity that they only grow in those pools, imagine how messy it would be if they were to gestate within a living body? Maybe an enterprising Transmuter or Cleric could work on that.

And finally, a great one would be an alternate ending that would depict the razing of Suldanesselar, and perhaps the slaughter of its queen before her Father?s defiled shrine. Though I understand that this is likely impossible or more trouble than it's worth.

Hmm, well another potential NPC could be the succubus Kirinhale from Tales of the Sword Coast... I guess she'd be a sorceress or something.

Tying the stolen religious artifacts from the churches of Talos and Lathander into the Cult stronghold might be worthwhile. Perhaps you could publicly desecrate them both at the culmination of those quests.

I don't know why this slipped my mind before, but this one ties into my Neb as an NPC suggestion, though the former isn't strictly necessary for it to occur. How about learning the secrets by which he binds the spirits of those children to his service? They could be used to amusing effect if you were to summon them against paladins and the like.

The Gate Towns from Planescape have always intrigued me, perhaps the character could introduce a similar effect upon the Slums? This could be a progressive sort of thing, with the initial ties that the player establishes having little immediate effect beyond the manifestation of the occasional quasit or dretch and an increasingly belligerent local disposition. Near the end, if you prevent the link from being severed, there could be environment changes (smoke, blood red skies, etc.), savage riots, and perhaps the arrival of a few Greater Tanar'ri, who you could attempt to bargain with or play against each other. By the end of SoA or the epilogues of ToB this could possibly result in a fair portion of Athkatla being completely excised from the Prime Material, maybe falling directly into your Abyssal Fortress.

(my second monster post)

The Planar Sphere:

The obvious start to the evil path of this quest is killing Valygar, and all that is needed here is a, ?Nah, you?re too much of a goody-good for us, let?s just kill you,? dialogue option, as opposed to the other options currently available. The next possible change I can see is with the Solamnic knights. Either:

1) Have an option of pissing them off and fighting them, or
2) More cunningly, have the option of tricking them into accompanying you to fight the Darksun halflings. Something like, ?Work with us, and you may have a chance of leaving this place.? ?Ok, cool, where to then?? ?If you guys go that way, we?ll follow.? ?Ok, let?s go. Wait! Why are you locking the door behind us?? ?Mwuahahaha??
-This would be great, but... The ony way the PC knows that the halflings are there if he has already seen them, and if he has seen them, they are dead (or pursuing the PC).

With the golem that is assembled, the PC should have the option of telling it to accompany you, or do something else in the sphere, such as maybe helping you to kill the demons when you go looking for a demon heart, or kill the Sahuagin, or something.

There should be some more demons in the Abyss. It looks a bit too empty at the moment.
-Only if they are blue, or very minor. Otherwise, it'd be to easy to get into an unwinable situation here.

As a start to the evillifying of the Sphere, adding Lavok to the Power Core would be a good way of corrupting it, allowing for the things that have already been discussed, such as sacrificing of ?good? items, summoning Demons, and so on. Lots of possibilities here as well.

Planar Prison:

There needs to be a suitable reason for an evil PC to take on this quest, and the immediate thought that came to me is that the bounty hunters took one of the party members as well as the Sigil Troupe.
-Stealing party members isn't fun... If HD is the PCs slave, though, that gives the PC reason enough.

Instead of being motivated to free the slaves out of the goodness of the PC?s heart, which is unlikely, something very evil would be being able to free people from their slave collars, get a moment of freedom, then kill them. He he he? The PCs should also get to keep the Slave Collars, and perhaps even find a way to replicate them for use in other areas.
-I think you can keep the collars now -- they just aren't useful. Rather than freeing / killing the slaves, perhaps a way to drive them to fight (as mindless cattle) on the PC's behalf?

The final fight should remain the same, but the resolution could change in a slightly different way. While not necessarily restricted to evil characters, I think it?d be very incredibly useful to have the Planar Prison as a kind of Pocket Plane in SoA. The evil smith could be here, a la Cespenar, and it?d be a good place for the PCs to rest, recouperate, and so on. It?s eminently doable to put a pocket plane function in, although it might be tough, and I think that would be incredibly useful. This could also tie in to the PS:T idea, or be a way to link to other areas in SoA, back to BG1 areas if included, or to ToB if an option to continue the game after killing Irenicus was added. No limit to the possibilities here.

De?Arnise Keep:

A lot of the stuff here has already been mentioned, so I?ll go over the additions that I?ve come up with.

First of all, there need to be some more dialogue options with the guards at the makeshift fort at the south. Something to make them a little uneasy but somewhat confident that the party will take care of the trolls. And, of course, a way to betray Nalia is always wanted.

Once having gone inside the keep, the first troll the PCs see should be neutral and able to be talked to, with an option like, ?Easy there big guy, we?re not here to hurt you. We just want to see who?s running this.? Getting taken to Tor?gal and coming to an agreement with him would be my preferred approach to the evil stronghold part of the keep. One evil afterthought; what if, after coming to this agreement, you lift the drawbridge and let the attackers in only to have them slaughtered by a superior force of trolls, yuan-ti, not to mention the PCs? THAT would be fun . The PCs should also be able to kill Nalia?s aunt. Mmmmmmm?

There should also be one final option of having a troll force, yuan-ti force or whatever meet up in the Druid grove with the trolls there, to continue the thoughts about the druid grove put up earlier, including dryad acorns, etc.

Trademeet:

The ideas for resolving this have already been talked about, so I?m not going to mention them here.

Umar Hills:

There should be an option into intimidating Minister Lloyd into giving you a higher reward/down payment, more information, or something of the sort. Telling you that a Shadow Dragon resides in the ruins should be motivation enough for any evil party, I figure.

Juggernaut Golem ?

All that is needed here is an added piece of dialogue ?

?My golem? No! Come, help me fight it off!?
?Nah, I?d rather not.?
?What? Ahhhh! (splat)?

With the requisite experience points for roleplaying of course.

The chickens ?

An evil party killing the Hendricks should provide them with a suitably evil item (such as the woman?s heart) that they can add to the Beljuril to make the evil Horn of Valhalla.

Temple Ruins:

Anath ?

There should be an option to have her as a PC, but I don?t think that necessarily should be part of this mod, as it?d take up too much time in my opinion, and isn?t strictly ?evil?. What I?d like to see is more of the PC goading her into going ahead of them so that she can be ripped apart? fun

Inside the dungeon, while the Shadows and such are evil like the PCs, I doubt they?d be wanting to stop and talk with them, so the PCs going through and killing them all is perfectly reasonable to me. However, I doubt they?d want to do anything that relates to the worship of Amaunator, so there needs to be an alternative to this. Perhaps there is an item that can stop the Shadows from attacking, rendering them neutral, then using them to break down the door that leads to the Shadow Dragon?

With Mazzy, there should also be an option of leaving her in her cage, slapping a control circlet on her and watching her die in some amusing way, offer her to the SD as a sacrifice of appeasement, or anything like that.

Once down at the Shadow Dragon?s lair, as with Firkraag (later) there should be options to talk, calm and possibly even get the dragon on your side. Another area where connections with a powerful group in Athkatla, such as the FP?s, the TR?s or anything like that is useful. In fact, I think that an evil PC should be approached by a TR as soon as they?ve left Gaelan Bayle, just because they are turning into quite a major addition to the plot. It would be a shame if the PC did all of these quests without the options that the TR would give them just because they didn?t know, and the TR could be another way of getting to Brynnlaw without helping Bodhi or the Shadow Thieves. Ditto for the FP. They could even be linked, with the FP being the muscle for the TR. Lots of opportunities there.
-Ehhhh... Getting the dragon not to attack you should be as far as this goes, and there is already a way in the game to bypass the dragon. Unless the PC does something for the dragon, it seems an unlikely ally.

Anyway? get the SD on your side, or at least convince it not to attack. Going upstairs, the Shade Lord awaits, and again what to do with him is something that has already been mentioned, so I?ll leave it out here.

-You forgot the kids -- there needs to be something more evil here (perhaps encouraging the kids to attack the neutral monsters to the north of town?)

Windspear Hills:

After killing the paladin/ogres, there should be some very interesting dialogue options with Garren Windspear if you?ve already wiped out the Radiant Heart in Athkatla. This would be a good place to learn of what Firkraag really is, getting a free ticket down to the ?man? himself by speaking to the gate guards and explaining that you want to talk to him. Alternatively, the party could still go through and kill everyone there, but Firkraag?d be a touch annoyed about that, and an XP reward for negotiating with the guards should offset any player fear that it could turn out worse for them. The other option is of course that if you fight your way down to Firkraag he doesn?t want to help you, in which case proceed as before. However, I like the idea of having kamikaze kobolds on the party?s side? perhaps as an alternative spell for mages? ?Summon Kamikaze Kobold, level 3?? Maybe an innate ability? Fun fun fun?

One thing I have never figured out is why Firkraag has the Holy Avenger. If he joins whatever organisation the party is representing, I think they should get that as a sort of ironic thank-you gift.

From here, the quest can be concluded with the PC killing Garren and taking the deed to the Windspear Hills to Firkraag. This could even be the act that Ol? Sparky requires to join the PC?s side.

(from Mason)
On a related note, it might be amusing to secure a memento or two from the remains of Mazzy?s family, something to keep her company as she rots in the Shadelord?s dungeon?


He he he... I like this . Especially if something is happening to Mazzy while rotting. It would be very cool to have something nasty happen to her, such as raising her as a shadow or whatever. Fun...

Ah. I'd like to see the Svirfnebliln Balor give the same quests as the silver dragon (for different reasons, of course). This provides a clearly evil way to resolve the Underdark quests (most importantly, a way to get into the Drow city). Intresting either way, though.

(from blackmamuth)

suggestions: Adalon Eggs, if you didn't gave him to the Demon in the Underdark, (because if you are evil, you must kill Soulafein ally with Phaere or something like that, (mindflayer Control circlet, have Phaere join you as some kind of love Slave) i would Really Grateful if you can Blackmail Adalon with it... see it:

*pointing a dagger into a silver Dragon eggs*

you stupid dragon, give money, and beg for it, and maybe i let the eggs live

*adalon BEGS and give you some cool magical item.

you use the dagger into the dragon eggs...

dragon goes mad, you kill him, get scales, blood and other cool items)

you get the eggs and use the for something else

also, i really would like something about torturing-corrupting mazzy, turning her into a shadow-love slave (tough turning her into a vampire would be preferable, if you had Valen in party... and the have mazzy the vampere ordened by valen to suck all his family blood in trademet as her initial meal... that would torture her.... eventually corrupting her into your little love Slave....

and i really liked the idea about turning tradeemet into the Shadow's Territory....


edit: rereading my post it seems that i have an obssesion about love Slave *sigh* but corrupting mazzy IS really cool in my mind.... especially beacause if you are going the evil way you loose a lot of Npcs all the good ones: mazzy, minsc, Aerie, jaheira,valygar,keldorn,imoen*(that one i'm pretty sure could be worked, let her submit to the dark side of the force, let her turn into the slayer at will ),and nalia, so that's 8 npc's out of 17 (counting yoshi and sarevok) so having more options would be really nice.

(from Fluke)

I'm fairly certain that there has always been the choice of killing Nalia's overbearing aunt. Death's too good for her anyway? she does go so far as to state that she would rather die than compromise herself after all, so why let her until you've obliterated all vestiges of her former dignity?
Torture and disfigurement are promising ways to go about this, and so long as the drawbridge remains sealed it's not as though the DeArnise soldiers would be able to interrupt you even if they suspected what you were up to. There are still the trolls, of course, so this would probably make more sense after you've cleared the premises or successfully negotiated with the invaders, and it can only be a good thing to give her the time to contemplate what awaits her as she lies shackled to her bed. A portrait to accompany the aftereffects of this would be a nice touch. A soundset wouldn't be bad either, but much harder to come by I'd imagine.
For those who aren't particularly interested in torturing her, there is the option of enchantment, which could not only tie into Reed's suggestion of using throughout the Keep scenario, but could be almost as jarring to her in its own way... after all, how must a person like that feel about being cowed so utterly and with so little effort? This is potentially more insidious and rewarding than the former, as by subtly reinforcing her entrancement over an extended period she might ultimately lose the ability to distinguish between her own feelings and impulses and those that you have implanted within her. Further, it could easily culminate in her madness and disgrace, perhaps after you have driven her to assassinate or exile any vocal detractors that oppose your rule. I particularly enjoy the notion of having her kill her niece under these conditions, but alas it seems quite likely that Nalia will already be dead by the time Delcia is ripe for such a task.
Then again, there is little to prevent one from performing both, if one paces them suitably and given the right circumstances... so why choose between them at all?
Either way, you could sell her into slavery to the Roenalls when you're done with her, whom I suspect could degrade her most ably as well.

Conflict does arise in Windspear Hills if you've killed the two dryads and stumble across the Fairy Queen, though she knows what you've done as soon as she sees you... so attempting to pass on the acorns isn't an option as things currently stand.

(from cliffette)

Suggestion for Delcia torture (evil and depraved, Stephen King would be proud): Tearing out her tongue, starving her, then offering her the tongue to eat- after informing her of what it is. Needless to say, it wouldn't be compatible with the Nalia romance.

(from fluke)

Not bad, but it denies us the joy of hearing her beg... though on second thought, hearing her *try* might be even better. I?d rather bore into her gums repeatedly and leak sediments of molten lead/sulfur into the punctures.
An interesting spin on the flaying motif, which all but has to be included I should think, would be the use of an iron bar instead of a knife, with which you could pry the flesh off her back in blistering swatches as it clings to the heated surface of the metal. I think an altered form of the insect swarm spell, in which they continually hatch from her eyes and skin, has promise as well.

I know of a site that has a list and description of common favorites employed in this lovely pastime, though as I?m not sure if it's the sort of thing I can post on these forums, I'll err on the side of caution. If it could conceivably be of any use, I wouldn?t be averse to PMing it, however.

(from Hendryk)

Delcia strikes me as being a better love interest than Nalia to a certain, perverse sort of PC.

But if you don't fancy her yourself, marry her off to Daleson and click on her periodically to ask if all the chamber pots are clean yet. (Physical torture is so unimaginative; over with too quickly too.)

(my monster post part III)

Before working on the quests already established to get the party to Brynnlaw, I would like to expand on two ideas previously alluded to, that is, using the Fallen Paladins or alternatively the Twisted Rune to get to Brynnlaw.

Fallen Paladins:

Since the PC has already gone through a series of quests for the Fallen Paladins, no further demonstration of the PC?s ability is necessary. Their upfront cost is more than the other guilds at 20,000 gold (although they do not make it out to be so, as the initial cost for Gaelan Bayle is the same figure), but unlike the other guilds they will not go down. They do however offer magical items, in the same vein as Aran Linvail. Instead, they require that the PC go on two diplomatic missions for them, to the Shadow Thieves and Bodhi?s guild. Since the Fallen Paladins are a new power in town, they want to make sure that their ?turf? (i.e. the Temple District) is not impinged upon by the more powerful guilds.

Twisted Rune:

Although the Twisted Rune are very powerful, they are concentrated in one area, that area being magical dominance. For that reason they are searching for allies that can give them ?muscle? for missions that they either cannot do or don?t want to risk a valuable member of their organisation for. Their cost is also 20,000 gold, but the burden is eased by their offering the PC an item that traps any hostile Liches that they meet and sends them to the Twisted Rune headquarters, with the PC still getting the XP for the kill (if this is possible enginewise, if not, something else). Although this may sound overpowered, there are few liches around that would not be linked with the Twisted Rune, and it leads to a load of possibilities later in the game, such as a Lich ?break-out? or something similar.

For both guilds, there should be conversation options that are available depending on the PC?s intelligence, and an end result that is modified by the PC?s charisma to determine the outcome. Note that when I say PC I refer to whatever character is conducting the negotiations; I use PC for ease of use.

Shadow Thieves ?

If working for the Fallen Paladins, then Anarg is primarily concerned here that the Shadow Thieves will infiltrate the Fallen Paladins and cripple them, know their secrets or in other ways compromise their power. Therefore, he sends the PC to get guarantees that the Shadow Thieves will stay out of the Temple District and leave the Fallen Paladins alone, for the best terms that the PC can get. If working for the Twisted Rune, they are looking to get some aid in the form of thieving and assasinations, as well as searching for magical items etc in the city. The negotiations should consist of talking followed by a brief fade, concluding with the outcome of the negotiation. The lines of conversation should go along the lines of a standard negotiation, with characters with higher intelligence getting better options, similar to how things are done with a ?Wish? spell. The different options should gain the PC ?points?, like the de?Arnise Keep ?revolt points?, which determine the end result. The PC?s charisma should then add a certain amount of points, depending on the score, with the result determining the end of negotiations. Possible outcomes, listen from worst to best, if working for the Fallen Paladins:

1) No deal; things continue as before, and they will act against each other if situation necessitates
2) Neutrality agreement; neither guild is against each other but the Shadow Thieves will not deliberately stay out of the Temple District
3) Working together at arm?s length; the Shadow Thieves will stay out of the Temple District and not interfere in any of the Fallen Paladin?s schemes, and the Fallen Paladins will similarly stay out of the Shadow Thieves?s plans
4) Co-operation: the Shadow Thieves send a representative of theirs (a high-ranking thief) to the Fallen Paladin headquarters, and vice versa, and each organisation promises to lend aid to the endeavours of the other, Fallen Paladins acting as muscle for the Shadow Thieves if required, the Shadow Thieves performing assasinations and thieving duties for the Fallen Paladins.

For the Twisted Rune:

1) No deal; things continue as before, and they will act against each other if situation necessitates
2) Neutrality agreement; neither guild is against each other but the Shadow Thieves will not aid the Twisted Rune
3) Working together at arm?s length; the Shadow Thieves will aid the Twisted Rune?s endeavours, for a price, and the two guilds will mutually co-operate in their endeavours
4) Co-operation: the Shadow Thieves send a representative of theirs (a high-ranking thief) to the Twisted Rune headquarters, and vice versa, and each organisation promises to lend aid to the endeavours of the other, Twisted Rune performing magical services, conjuring items, and so on for the Shadow Thieves, if and when required, the Shadow Thieves performing assasinations and thieving duties for the Twisted Rune

The XP reward should be progressively greater for progressive levels of achievement in negotiations. The final level should also get the PC an item or something as a form of reward.

The next diplomatic mission is to Bodhi?s guild. Here, the Fallen Paladins are looking to increase their power by recruiting vampires to their cause, or at the very least stopping the vampires from preying on their members. The Twisted Rune are looking to the vampires to sire (turn into vampires) members of their guild, so as to increase the muscle of the fighting members of their guild, making entire sections of the guild undead. Results of negotiations, for the Fallen Paladins:

1) No deal; things continue as before, and they will act against each other if situation necessitates
2) Neutrality agreement; neither guild is against each other but Bodhi?s guild will not aid the Fallen Paladins. They will however refrain from eating them.
3) Working together at arm?s length; Bodhi?s guild will aid the Fallen Paladins in missions where they need vampy power, and the Fallen Paladins will send the captives that they do not need to the vampires for food
4) Co-operation: the vampires send several of their members to act as if members of the Fallen Paladins, and vice versa, as well as what is listed in 3)

For the Twisted Rune:

1) No deal; things continue as before, and they will act against each other if situation necessitates
2) Neutrality agreement; neither guild is against each other but Bodhi?s guild will not aid the Twisted Rune
3) Working together at arm?s length; Bodhi?s guild will aid the Twisted Rune as required and practical, and the Twisted Rune will provide political power for Bodhi?s guild
4) Co-operation: Bodhi?s guild sire several members of the Twisted Rune, and the Twisted Rune send a lich to the Graveyard district to act as the Rune?s representative there, as well as in 3)

Note that getting a deal with Bodhi?s guild will change dynamics quite a bit in chapter 6, when the party goes to attack Bodhi. That can be dealt with later though.
-If there is an opportunity to negotiate with Bodhi in Chapter 6, this works. Otherwise, there will be some signficant problems making everything fit together, I think.
-Well, I wasn't thinking of anything THAT eloberate... (in response to my comments about getting Bodhi in the party) I made a suggestion earlier that Bodhi doesn't really have any reason to oppose the player in Chapter 6 (getting the Lanthorn). After all, she has gotten her soul, there is no dialog indicating she plans to ascend with Irencous (sp), and she doesn't have any feelings for Irencous (sp), so why would she risk her life to save his? Now, to get her active support the player would have to offer something signficant (beyond just not killing her to save Imoen) -- what, I don't know.

Working for the Shadow Thieves:

I have not added any new quests here, just suggested changes for what is already there. After all, if it ain?t broke, don?t fix it, right?

The would-be assasin ?

Some options in dialogue and actions? once the assasin that has come up behind the would-be assasin appears, there should be an option to tap him on the shoulder and say, ?Hey, look behind you? mwuahahaha!?

Torturer ?

There should be an option to learn some techniques from the torturer here, for some experience (and some really grossed out party members, if they?re not all evil themselves).
-Actually, I'd pass on the experience here, and give the player an option to put his skill to "good" use to get the experience. Perhaps an alternative way to get into Spellhold (from Brynlaw, that is)
-Well, I assume that the player could talk with the torturer on the thieves path, the FP path, and the TR path -- so thats 75% of the time. The "put it to use" would be somewhere on the primary path between Brynalaw and Spellhold. For example, there is a monk that you can fight to get in -- perhaps an option to disable him and torture him for the necessary information?
-That is something I didn't consider, that you could talk to Booter in three of the paths. The guy you're thinking of is a Cowled Wizard who is a little bit nutso. The idea of torturing someone to get in is a good one, but I think he would be the wrong person. A better recipient would probably be Golin, the guy you take Claire (ex-hooker girl) to. Have him around the dock area, and have an option of asking him about how to get into Spellhold, then get on with the torture . Then you can get the information he gives you if you save Claire, and then continue as normal. The only other thing that would be required is a slight change to the journal.

Working for Bodhi:

The XP and rewards for working for Bodhi should be risen to match those the party gets from working for the Shadow Thieves. That has irked the hell out of me ever since I first learnt that they weren?t equal? bah
-I disagree. Siding with Bodhi is considerably easier than siding with the thieves, and is therefore worthy of less xp, especially since you end up with better loot. Yes, I'm aware that this philosophy means means that most of the plots mentioned earlier shouldn't "pay" as well as the good resolution -- so what? The player will have additonal opportunities to gain exp that are totally invisible to the good player, so it should all balance out in the end.
-The other option is that Bodhi's quests are increased in difficulty. Personally I'd be more comfortable with this option, although it is more laborious, because it means that both options are equally viable. I take the point about more general evil options though.
-Well, I don't power game to that point -- as long as the rewards for both path are fairly close (and I believe the difference is only a few thousand XP), I don't see it as a major problem to have unbalanced paths.
-Fair enough. It's not that big of an issue, just that, superficially at least, it is more rewarding to work for the Shadow Thieves, especially considering you can get their support against Bodhi in Chapter 6 if you work with them, but get no alternate option if you work for Bodhi.

Cloak & Dagger quest ?

?Okay, I?ll let you go. Get your wife and children and I?ll lead you out.?
?Woohoo!?
? (arrive in Graveyard District)
?What are we doing here??
?Mwuahahaha? <crunch>?

Sweeeeeeeet?

(from Arkenor)

Just a quick note on druids and shadow druids. Shadow Druids are certainly a whole lot pleasant than your regular flavour, but they still stand for nature. Faldorn would not be at all impressed at being presented dryad slaves.

With their hatred of civilisation they're really not too helpful to most parties. Still, a Shadow Druid kit would be a worthwhile addition to your mod, as would a recruitable Faldorn perhaps. (one of the few BG1 gang who hasn't been made recruitable by some mod or t'other. Certainly she'd put up with a lot more unpleasantness than Cyrn or Jaheira, provided it wasn't directed at nature.

One branch of the Church of Malar are pretty darn unpleasant fellows, with druid spells too, if you're looking for ways to allow the evil party access to Druidic magics.

Oh, and finally, make Tiax recruitable, and early! He should not be doomed to spend his final days in Spellhold only to be used as cannon-fodder! (Maybe that guy in Spellhold is a misplaced clone or somesuch. As if the real Tiax, ruler of all, could be captured by such fools.) He's the Chosen One of Cyric after all, maybe... A fine alternative to the pest Jansen, he'd make.

(my monster post part IV, the end)

Brynnlaw:

Not a lot can be changed here, as this area is a railroad towards Spellhold. The two notable quests, helping Ginia & Ason and saving Claire from Lady Galvena, are all that can really be altered.

Ginia & Ason ?

An idea I thought would be very cool here would be an option to give the word to someone about the ship that they?re leaving on, so that they can be caught and brought back to Brynnlaw, for a reward and roleplaying XP. Apart from that, all that needs to be changed are dialogue options, as normal.

Sanik & Claire ?

Number of changes that can happen here;

1) Being able to sleep with hired courtesan
2) Poisoning the guards rather than sleep-draughting them
3) Killing Claire & Golin once you?ve gotten requisite information

There is also the option of going straight to torturing Golin.
-Why not an option to team up with Galvena, assuming you haven't murdered her guards, and torturing Claire for the info? Galvena might even offer you a job afterwards.

Inside Spellhold:

The Inmates ?

Add options to taunt/harass the inmates into using their magical power, or doing something crazy, should be added.

The Transformation & The Dream ?

An interesting path for an evil character would be to work with the image of Bhaal and attack Immy, perhaps by luring her outside of the keep?
-Not sure Imoen is really "Imoen" here. I'd say she's the anima figure who later urges you to yield to the Evil within. You're right though that *something* different would be nice here.

Asylum Dungeon, level 1:

Main Hall & Bodhi ?

My idea for having Bodhi join the party is listed on the other thread, but I?ll put it here again as well.

For an evil PC, I doubt even a feeling of a sibling bond with Imoen would be very satisfactory as a reward for getting to the Asylum. Therefore, consider this course of conversation with Bodhi:

<her final line, where she normally leaves>
PC: 'Bodhi! Surely we can work together here.'
Bodhi: '(amused tone) And why would I want to help you? You're barely alive.'
PC: 'And how did that happen, Bodhi? I was betrayed and caught by surprise. Irenicus knows, as I do, that he could never face us in direct conflict. The power of Bhaal within me is something he can never match. His sorcery cannot compare to the power of a demi-god.'
Bodhi: '(she considers)
PC: 'Join with me, Bodhi. The essence of Bhaal that courses through both of us is unstoppable, and as soon as Irenicus falls the world could be ours!'
Bodhi: '...What of the girl? I doubt Imoen would approve of my taking her soul forever.'
PC: 'Consider her my gift to you, an appropriate cost for the privilege of your power. Take her and keep her essence.'
Imoen: 'WHAT!'
PC: 'Sorry Imoen. This is where you get off.'
B: '<chomp>'
-Great last line but I still think Bodhi would expect to get more from Irenicus, after he becomes a god, than the PC could ever offer. So I'd say she would conclude the dialogue above by thanking you for dessert and telling you to run for your life, anyway.

As she is, Bodhi is far more powerful than any average party member, but this can be easily rectified. Since she and Irenicus have a link, both through the relationship and their Bhaalspawn essence, he can simply teleport in, disable the party and drain some of her powers. Granted, it's not the most natural way to do things but at least it levels her out some. If not that, then maybe some of her power can go as soon as she drains Imoen, gone when she loses her alliance with Irenicus. Some ideas for lowering her power:

-Reduced stats
-Slower regeneration
-Weaker level drain attack
-Level/XP lessened
-XP penalty - a percentage of XP earnt is taken away, due to her power
-No HLA's
Due to the Bhaalspawn soul she possesses, she could get some Bhaalspawn powers to replace those. As she is a vampire, they would probably be more raw and murdery than the PC's ones, such as an innate Finger of Death spell, Hand of Murder, etc.

Obviously a lot would need to be changed in order to have Bodhi in your party, but most of those would be simple dialogue changes so that they don't refer to Bodhi. The biggest problem would of course be when you confront the guild of vampires, but this can be rectified by some dialogue changes and additions and raising one of the vamps in the guild to the new master or mistress of the guild. The only other big change would be in Ascension, where Bodhi and Irenicus come back, but that could be changed as well. I'm not exactly sure how, because I haven't played through Ascension (no ToB... grr) but it wouldn't be too hard, especially considering an evil party can get her on their side at that point.

Minotaur?s Statue (with the two missing horns) ?

Instead of being confronted by Bodhi, the party can be conf

[Caedwyr]

The bottom of the post got truncated. FWS forums have a maxium length before a new post is needed.

[The Outlaw Torn]

Damn!  I didn't see its truncation...

Cont'd:

Minotaur?s Statue (with the two missing horns) ?

Instead of being confronted by Bodhi, the party can be confronted by the new leader of the guild, Cohn or whoever.  The only change should be an added ?you traitor!? line of dialogue, and a changed feel of the dialogue (less feminine, obviously).  

Power of the Slayer dream ?

Incarnation of Bhaal replaces Imoen if you took that path in the Transformation dream.

Challenging Irenicus ?

More evil dialogue and reactions to Bodhi, from Irenicus.
-And this is certainly where she'd double-cross the PC, if she hasn't already.

Getting a ship in Brynnlaw ?

Ability to take the more direct path of threatening Saemon into captaining a ship you kill the guards of.  

Saguagin City ?

Evil path is pretty easy; kill everyone .

Underdark:

When the party enters the Underdark, there should be a talk initiated by Bodhi, if she is in the party, where she explains what?s going on, i.e. Irenicus?s plans.  

Duergar Encampment ?

There should be slightly different dialogue options if Bodhi is in the party.  This applies to quite a few conversations though.  They do however mention that Irenicus and Bodhi went through the underdark, which obviously didn?t happen if Bodhi is in your party.

Svirfneblin ?

A nice touch for the evil would be the option to kill Therndle?s son and give him the body.

Balor & Pit ?

Talk to it and offer it the Svirfneblin village to win its favour.  Do so and it rewards you with a wand of summon (demon x).  Otherwise, proceed as normal.  Either way, the party gets the Light Gem and can go to Adalon.

Adalon ?

All that is needed here is more evil options in the dialogue.  I mention it because there need to be some really cool evil lines there .

Ust Natha:

None of the drow plots need changing, beyond minor dialogue options.

The Aboleth ?

There should be an option to have something happen to the Aboleth once the PC gains power in Ust Natha.  Kill it or torture it or dehydrate it or something.  Mwuahahaha.

Dragon Egg ?

An evil option here is already available, that being telling Matron Ardulace of Phaere?s treachery.  However, in order to have further progression with the drow, the PC needs to be added to tell the Matron Mother of your true identity before the ritual starts.  Her reaction should be surprised, of course, but she should also sense your potential and be satisfied of your loyalty? providing that you go kill Phaere.  Probably not a problem.

I think the Improved Drow part of the mod will be the biggest and hardest to make part of the mod, so I?ll leave that out for now.  I have several ideas for that though? but now isn?t the time .

Leaving the underdark is dependant on how things go within it, but it?s safe to assume that either the party will be killing the surface elves with the aid of several drow, or killing some drow and being very evil around the surface elves.  Details, details
-One nice touch would be to play along with the gag until you're in Suldanesselar and Elhan has dispatched his troops throughout the city.  Then tell him, "OK, you hysterical twit.  You've seen this place again, so you have nothing more to live for.  Good-bye!"  And leave him decomposing on the platform.

Alternative allies against Bodhi:
1) Twisted Rune and associates
2) Fallen Paladins and associates
3) Drow

Twisted Rune could send a semi-lich (ha ha ), an ensorcelled undead hunter, or something similar.
Fallen Paladins send, obviously, fallen paladins
Drow could send fighter/mages, drider (although they would be a bitch to put in the game, considering that they?d need brand new avatars), or clerics

Vamps ?

Dialogue changes if Bodhi?s in party, new leader of guild (Valen or Cohn are the most probable ones), and a changed final fight.  Although the new leader shouldn?t be nearly as powerful as Big B, they should have some, ?Ha ha!  Didn?t expect this did you?? dialogue as they trap/otherwise incapaciate Bodhi for the duration of the fight.  That way she?s out of the picture, levelling the fight a little, and the party can now use Sunray without consequence.  The new leader can also have new vamp helpers, or skeletons, or something.  Any loved ones could be restored with the new leader?s heart instead of Bodhi?s.

Suldanessallar:

Again, the attack on Suldanessallar will depend on how the situation in the Underdark is resolved.  Currently I have no ideas as to what an evil party working with the surface elves would do here.

Once downstairs, the party should find Ellesime, scared and fearful of them.  The party can coerce the truth of what is happening from her, then kill the parasites as normal.  The dialogue in the fight with Irenicus should have some evil options available, of course.  

Hell:

No changes, that I can see.

End scene should be modified if drow attacked.

(from Fluke)
The following are a few ideas of mine for potential refinements to the Ust?Natha experience:

The study of torture devices and techniques.  Hardly new ground by this point in the thread, but the fact does remain that Drow's cruelty and perversion is the stuff of nightmares on the surface, so it could prove enlightening nonetheless.  I personally wouldn?t mind seeing a chamber or two set aside for this purpose in the basement of the tavern.  There?s also those students and their pet Djinn to consider, I suppose, though I?d much rather have a subject to myself than share one with a clutch of bumbling neophytes.

Vivisection.  There are all sorts of bizarre creatures teeming throughout the Underdark, and it seems fairly likely that these beings would be a common focus of drow research.  Less exotic subjects, on the other hand, could serve as a testing ground for pathogens and spell effects.  Among the more constructive aspects of this could be an increased knowledge of the intricacies of the Illithid nervous/immune system? Obviously this should not yield any groundbreaking revelations or benefits, but perhaps it could prove handy in some small way during your capture within the Illithid city.

Poisons/alchemy/narcotics.  Unfortunately, I?m at a loss as to where this could be explored, aside from a few tidbits being mentioned here and there by the alchemist in the market.  Naturally, assassins in particular should stand to benefit from such research, perhaps gaining the ability to brew more virulent toxins.  Extra damage is probably a bad idea, but a small chance of added effects such as blindness or confusion could be interesting.  There are obviously less opportunities for narcotics given the brevity of this sequence and the urgency of finding and confronting Irenicus immediately after, but if the Shadow Thieves remain intact as an organization there might be the possibility of netting a fair profit from their distribution along the Surface.  Helping the drow establish such a foothold on the surface could in fact be one of the terms of the alliance.

Ritual and theology.  While at a glance, this seems to be little more than a branch of the torture study mentioned above, it could also be instructive in its insights upon the dynamics of blood sacrifice and fanatical rhetoric.  Sending the slaves to the temple for sacrifice is an obvious opening for this, though perhaps a bit late in the sequence, the idea of delivering one of the surviving heretics that you are enlisted to quell strikes me as more promising.

Study of combat and tactics.  This would mostly be achieved through spars and training in the Fighter?s House, though perhaps a quick lesson or two from the gladiator pits in the bar as well.  If the Protagonist has approached this intensively enough, they could develop a fair measure of insight into Solaufein?s capacity as a warrior and his weaknesses in general, perhaps even enabling them to assassinate him through more treacherous means.

Slaves.  As it stands, engaging in a slave hunt is an option, albeit one that suffers from the prompt disappearance of the quarry.  Expanding upon this in various ways might be worthwhile.  For instance, tying into my idea of a rival group below, one could first smuggle weapons to the prisoners or endeavor for them to come across some in the midst of the hunt, and then attempt to goad members of the other group to launch into the fray.  If properly orchestrated, it could not only result in death or grievous injury for the rivals, but in the stigma of being bested by their own mewling quarry as you ?heroically? step in to save them from the slaves.  Less elaborate accidents could also be arranged during the hunt, if you abused the slaves too cruelly beforehand to gain their trust for such an undertaking to commence.  This of course would require an extended interaction with the slave population, as well as another scheduled hunt.

Betting on the fights.  This would be an opportunity to put one?s recently purchased beasts to use, or to simply place bets on fighters outside of your group.  In either case, as you become more successful in this endeavor there should be the opportunity to hedge one?s bets and to elude the sabotage of the other gamblers.  If one?s beast proves particularly successful in its bouts, perhaps you could sell it off afterward at a sum that is markedly increased from that which you paid for it.  Given the time frame involved, and the character?s predicament, this might work better for expanded Copper Coronet fight wagers that this idea is clearly patterned off of.

Bringing slaves back to the city, and interrogation.  Two opportunities immediately spring to mind: the drow hunters outside of Ust?Natha, and the Illithid slaves.  In the case of the former, it wouldn?t surprise me if House Despana and the residents of Ust?Natha in general were interested in what these people were doing wandering about in the depths of the Underdark, not to mention how they found their city in the first place.  They could of course be random adventurers with reliable Underdark lore and a grudge against drow, but then again it seems particularly foolhardy, even for random adventurers, to squat around an area of the Underdark in which the Illithids, Beholders, and Kuoa-Toa are near at hand, and relatively active besides, simply to pick a fight with the inhabitants of a fortified Drow city that?s preparing for war.  As for the Illithid slaves, maybe it?s the avatars that are fooling, but they don?t look particularly healthy?  I don?t imagine that they?d have much use beyond serving as fresh sacrifices and fodder for the spiders, but there are a lot of them, so maybe that?ll make up for their overall worthlessness.  If the drow hunters were proving particularly intractable over the course of their questioning, this is possibility that suffering of these gangly new arrivals might loosen their lips a bit?

  Potential Complications:

A rival band?  Much as it sounds, House Despana has another drow party at its disposal and naturally they too are vying for the House?s favor.  To justify your admittance into the city and house Despana, I suppose they would have to make an appearance after the first few quests.  Arguments and sabotage between groups abound, and the animosity culminates either in a savage duel, or the disgrace and enslavement of the losing party if their rivals should achieve exceptional victories in their jockeying for position and status within the house, perhaps even resulting in the sacrifice of the shamed group.
If the party really shines through, they might even invite one of your group?s female priests to drive the dagger home, which Lolth might object to, given the heathens you?re likely to have attracted at this point.  Disentangling one?s self from this could be an opportunity to enter into a relatively earnest partnership with House Despana, as well as a chance to sell out Viconia and gain Phaere in her place (her punishment for allowing potential invaders to insinuate themselves so deeply into their affairs).  Whether or not she?d be ?romanceable? in the physical sense would depend on how much the PC cares to humiliate her during her tenure with the group.  Being a drow, of course, she could be pushed too far? though on the other hand, one could conceivably hope to sway her with thoughts of the power and glory that a God in the making such as yourself will no doubt claim.

Unexplained remains?  This one is fairly simple, a band of Duergar or Svirfneblin might stumble across some sign of the deceased group whose guises you assume.  Naturally, you would have to find some way to cover up anything that might incriminate you at this point, and most likely convince them to place you within the reconnaissance party that they send out there to do so.
If you threw in with the Balor, this may even be intentional? his way of forcing you to perform yet more boons for him.  A likely manifestation of this might be an eventual confrontation with the Lesser Abyssal Lord that the Drow intend to summon? there?s no love lost between most demons, and very likely seething hatred in the case of two of such vaunted stature.  On the other hand, I like the idea of a less direct approach, especially since vanquishing a Tanar?ri on the Prime accomplishes so very little.  Perhaps the Balor wants the Abyssal Lord?s True Name, which you would have to extract from Ardulace or Phaere, or convince them to share it willingly with promises of what the Balor you serve can offer to their cause.  If your Lore and Charisma were high enough, perhaps you could get away with offering the Balor a flawed rendition, one that would summon him but fail to bind him, of the Abyssal Lord?s True Name as a token of your appreciation, or in conjunction with a bargain you may have arranged with the Abyssal Lord beforehand.

The slaughter of the svirfneblin community should probably attract some attention over the course of the Ust?Natha quests; the mission in which they require you to make an ?example? of this area has always struck me as absurd in light of its obvious desolation? I think a fitting alternative would be receiving orders to search for those responsible for the killings, though I?m not all that sure how far you can go with this.  The duergar would certainly be able to venture a theory as to the culprits, and there is the distant possibility of inhabitants that may have eluded you coming out of the woodwork.  If the search party is sent to inspect the ruins themselves, an added dimension to this quest could be preventing them from discovering the Balor, ensuring that they meet with him under relatively peaceful terms, or implicating him in the bloodbath to draw attention away from the out of place surfacers that the Duergar may have brought up.

[Deathsangel]

Well we almost seem to work on a same line here as I want to try and add new evil quests (besides evil NPC's), while give more evil options.

However why would drow help you against Bodhi? There is nothing for them to gain there.

I never really got the twisted Rune people their motives, but they have a vampire in their group. I wonder if they would attack Bodhi.

Fallen paladins possibly, but can you keep them alive by killing the Order of the Most Radiant Heart? Or are you going to add that?

[Hendryk]

However why would drow help you against Bodhi? There is nothing for them to gain there.

One would assume that Lolth wouldn't want Irenicus to become an Evil elven male god; too much potential for upsetting "lowly males" in the Underdark. So she'd prompt the drow to help an Evil PC stop Jon. However, she'd expect her servants to handle all the "details", including retrieving the Rhynn lanthorn from Bodhi so they (and the PC) can get into Suldanesselar in the first place since there's no reason that Irenicus' barrier wouldn't be as effective against drow as against the native elves. Indeed, the barrier would probably be what tips Lolth off in the first place that Jon's after more than simple revenge.

I never really got the twisted Rune people their motives, but they have a vampire in their group. I wonder if they would attack Bodhi.

Nobody seems to know much about the TR's motivation. Even the official material has nothing about the cabal's ultimate goal. They seem to be concentrating on perverting trade to their own ends, though, so it is hard to see an inducement for them to bother with Bodhi.

Fallen paladins possibly, but can you keep them alive by killing the Order of the Most Radiant Heart? Or are you going to add that?

That certainly is a likely option. It really depends on who, if anyone, picks up this idea now that Matimus, the original Wicked modder, has abandoned the scene for RL.

[NiGHTMARE]

Some of the quests suggested in this thread have since been adopted by other mods . Sim's Quest Pack will include evil paths for both the Maevar and Xzar quests, and Lands of Intrigue will have an expansion of the slavers plot (including more evil options) and the option to do a few quests for Firkraag. Plus neglecting to do certain quests before heading off to Brynnlaw will have dire consequences for places like Imnesvale and Trademeet...

LoI will also include evil paths for many of the brand new quests too, such as the ability to ally with the churches of either Loviator or Talona in ToB, and even the chance to try to take over Amn! Not that you'll be able to succeed of course, but you can certainly try .

BTW I see quite a few mentions of the Fallen Paladins being evil in this thread, but they're not - with exception of Reynald they're neutral, even Anarg. IMHO they would be just as unwilling to work with people and beings like the liches & vampires of the Twisted Rune as the Order of the Radiant Heart would.

[Hendryk]

All you have in-game on them is Sir Ryan Trawl's word that they extort, smuggle, deal in slaves and whatnot. Unless Sir Ryan is deluded or - naughty paladin! - fibbing, they seem at least the sort of Neutrals an Evil PC might be comfortable with.

OOC, it sounds like one more case for the Oversight mod.

[NiGHTMARE]

Even if they were evil (which personally I don't think they are), it still doesn't neccessary mean they'd be willing to deal with undead and the like.

[Hendryk]

Even if they were evil (which personally I don't think they are), it still doesn't neccessary mean they'd be willing to deal with undead and the like.

Actually, it always seemed to me that there was more planned for this quest than ended up in the release. And if Sir Ryan's account can be believed, Reynald has to be awesomely stupid. That said, Anarg doesn't sound like a chap who would mind moving back to Radiant Heart HQ after the PC had depopulated it for him.

As for being willing to "deal with the Undead and the like" who suggested that they would? If you mean Bodhi, I don't think even an Evil PC could cut a deal with her because her expectations from a "divine" Irenicus would be so much greater than anything a PC could offer. If you mean the TR, I'm not clear enough on their motives to see how anyone could deal with them as an ally. A servant/slave perhaps but not an ally.

[NiGHTMARE]

As for being willing to "deal with the Undead and the like" who suggested that they would?

In the first post:

3) Next mission should be about getting some magical backup, as the FP are more open-minded than their Good counterparts.  This could tie into the TR potentially, if the PC has already talked to them.  If not, the FP could always say, ?Hey, we want a lich to help us out!  Meet those Twisted Rune folks to see if they want to help us!?.

That's what I was referring too There's also a suggestion of them allying with Firkraag, which seems somewhat more feasible to me - though there's the question of what exactly Firkraag would gain from such an alliance.

If you mean the TR, I'm not clear enough on their motives to see how anyone could deal with them as an ally. A servant/slave perhaps but not an ally.

If the Rune wanted to influence/control another group, they'd undoubtedly place an agent or agents in that group, rather than (as you say) approach that group directly or try to take control of them forcefully. In fact's, most of the Rune's agents (their living ones at least) don't even know that it's the Rune they work for.

[Hendryk]

Ah, ok. Missed that. And as you say of the Rune, they are unfond of the living knowing who or where they are.

I certainly wouldn't pick the FP's as eager to join them anyway. I'd see them more as allies who would try to put up a hypocritical front as the New Radiant Heart. To the extent people believed them to be real paladins, they could pick up all kinds of useful information and would be ideal for, say, snuffing MaeVar. If Renal does him himself, then he needs proof of treachery to satisfy his other guildmasters. But if the Radiant Heart (with the PC's help) were to smash MaeVar in the name of "Justice" - well, that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes in the thief business. Same thing could be done to the slave lords if Renal wants to take over the flesh importing business from them.

[Seifer]

Radiant Heart/Fallen Paladins ?

It?s already been brought up to have the option to support the Fallen Paladins against the Radiant Heart. I just wanted to say this again because it?s such a cool idea. Since the Radiant Heart is a Paladin stronghold, the Fallen Paladins should provide an anti-Paladin stronghold. Some ideas:

1) Since the original stronghold required you to have first saved Garren?s child, the FP stronghold should therefore be conditional on gaining the support of Firkraag. Besides just being really cool to have an ally in a red dragon, I?d imagine that the FP would feel they?d need some backup.
2) The first mission should be something along the lines of rescuing or bringing to the FP a group of other fallen paladins, perhaps in the graveyard district or something, with a nice fight and a bit of dialogue. After all, what?s an evil plot without a fight? The reward should be something appropriately evil, such as getting to execute the leader of the people imprisoning the other FPs personally.
3) Next mission should be about getting some magical backup, as the FP are more open-minded than their Good counterparts. This could tie into the TR potentially, if the PC has already talked to them. If not, the FP could always say, ?Hey, we want a lich to help us out! Meet those Twisted Rune folks to see if they want to help us!?. Eminently doable. Reward could be XP and maybe a spellbook or ring or some other magical item? Nothing too powerful, just enough to have fun with.
4) The final quest for the good guys is guarding Tyrianna, so an evil flipside that?d be cool would be capturing someone that was getting in the FP?s way. Not too sure on who, exactly, but it?d be cool. Once this is done, the reward should be a standing position in the FP, a nice magical item (poss. a sword?) and lots of XP.
-This is only place where a kit might be worthwhile -- since you don't start at level 1, there should be a way to make your character "fallen" from the beginning (with a non-LG alignment). Perhaps a fighter kit? As an alternative, there should be a way to fall almost instantly once the game starts, perferably with a way to choose your alignment.

-Lots of nice, twisty touches here. My only suggestion would be to release the additional FP?s from a new area of the city jail itself. The mission couldn?t be a straight-forward assault; that would raise an alarm and defeat the purpose. A combination of bribery, sneaking and hostage-taking (the prison warden?) would be needed to keep things ?officially? quiet enough to succeed. Then in the sewers or back at FP headquarters, there would be an option to a) kill the hostage;  torture and kill the hostage or c) let the hostage go free unharmed. The first option would be the safest, the second would invite a quick, and huge, reprisal but no long-term problems while the third would permanently alienate all the government officials and Good NPCs (since in this case, they?d know, unofficially, who did the deed although it would be too embarrassing to the government to allow it to become an official matter) leading to lots of harassment and frustration but no ?official? riposte.

This is the sort of addition I can add to NS, mind if I borrow it?

[The Outlaw Torn]

Yeah man, seeing it get into a mod would be enough for me... just as long as both myself and Mason Reed get credited for the idea

Everyone else, I'll respond when I have a bit more time.  Very interesting discussions though!

[fallen_demon]

has a korgan author been found yet

[Efreet]

Hi
First I would have some comments on your ideas

1 As for the idea of taking over the slums district: This too would probably require the negotiations with the shadow thiefs. It would also lead to some interesting situation if the party wants to side with Bohdi later on.

2 Quests for dragons are OK, but remember that most parties, even evil ones, kill Firrkrag sooner or later to get the dragon armour.

3 The assembled golem in the planar sphere doesn't listen to the <charname> while Lavok is alive, but later it could do some tasks for them, like protecting the sphere from intruders.

4 The Hate Incarnation. Combining it with Bhaals essence could be attempted, but binding a deamon in ones body, especially when you have lost your own soul, is extremally dangerous. I would rather bind it in an item (a weapon or an amulet, depending on the <charname> profession). This would create a magic item attuned to him (only usable by..) and increasing in power as he increases in levels.
Also remember, it should be done AFTER the spellhold, otherwise, the Hate Incarnation will end attuned to Irenicus.

5 Staying in Ankhatla as a crime lord. Again , looks like a good idea but I think that after some time, Irenicus will get impatient and find some other way to get the <charname> to his lab

Now, here is my idea:
During the serial skinner quest, the TR mage accompaning the tanner, insisted that the tanner's work cannot be interrupted. It seemed to be something important for the TR. However, the completed armour isn't that impressive. I think, it should be a part of something bigger.

My idea goes as follows: the humanskin armour is a part of a more imnportant project: a mage working for the TR is working on the creation of a perfect assassin .(the typical Rune Assassins are not competent or powerful enough to get rid of the TR real enemies and the leaders rarely get involved themselves).
His experiments require some more ingredients (a brain of a rare troll species, mind control circlet and so on) and if the party wants to work for the TR, they will be introduced to him and send on a couple of errands. His lab will be hidden somewhere underground (perhaps there should be a secred passage at the bottom of Umar Cave) and guarded by wards. (it must contain cloning vats so it will probably look like the Spellhold Lab) He could also be the "evil smith" you mentioned. After the players return from Underdark with the final components, they will be given one more task. The project is nearly complete, but the TR expect the lab to be raided by some adventurers who had already killed many of their agents. They probably know the way to bypass the wards. So, the party is to ambush them in Umar Cave and solve the problem once and for all. After the battle, the party can enter the lab and find the mage doing the final stage of programming the assassin's mind. Now, the players can either take their payment and go away. or betray the TR, kill the mage (he is an old man and his shields are down, they can snap his neck as a dialogue option) and reprogram the project to work for them. He can be sent after one of their enemies, (the TR know about him and they are too smart to let him kill them, but Bohdi tends to get overconfident and could get staked in her sleep: he had been programmed for this kind of tasks and unlike a whole party of adventurers, he can sneak into her hidout) . On the other hand, the players might want him to join the party. He does attract a lot of attention when not hiding (although the base creature for the experiment was an elf, he is not a pretty sight now, for examle, he had the humanskin armour melded into his own skin), is somewhat unpredictable with his behaviour (the player's tampering with his mind programming wasn't perfect, for example he can go berserk if someone tries to dominate him) has no initiative of his own and is limited in his choice of weapons (again, programming. I suggest, darts, knives short swords, dual wielding) . On the plus side, he is a deadly backstabber, with some skills to bypass locks and traps, has a permanent non detection, some protective powers of the humanskin armour , and perhaps regeneration.
If the players are good (or , for some other reasons against the Rune ) the roles will switch, thwy will learn about the lab from some other source and will be the assoulting party. They will be encountered by a very competent party of Rune members who had gathered the ingredients. (we assume they had killed a differend silver dragon and skinned some other people to get the armour) . Then they will have to fight the mage (they will not catch him off his guard) .They can still get the super assassin to join the party if they manage to reprogram him,
,although this means killing the mage without wrecking his lab. If the machine is damaged before the programming is finished, the assassin will be outside anyone's control . He will break free from the damage tank, grab the weapon that was prepared for him, plus a handful of invisibility potions and then cause some serious bleeding to anyone who stands between him and the exit.

Another thing is the planar sphere. I think there should be an option for the player to tell the cowled wizards to go to hell and see if they are strong enough to take it by force. This would lead to a differend set of quests . (I don't think the CW would attack the party in the street and risk ruining their reputation by accidently toasting civilians with magic) for example:

1 on coming back to the sphere, the PC is confronted by the guardian golem who raports that there have been some intruders. Judging by the read smears on the floor, they didn't have anything to fight magic -resistants oponents.

2 The next, stronger party attacks when the players are inside. The players will have to defeat them.

3 The party returns to the sphere, only to find out that someone has "changed the locks" in their absence. They will have to do some spying around the city and perhaps raid a CW lab to get a spare key to the new wards.

4 Then they finally get in, it turns out that one of the CW specialists had been trying to repair the engine and something went spectacularly wrong. (like all the "special" rooms in the sphere shifting into their respective planes) The party must find the way to the control room and then the engine room in order to put the sphere back in one piece before the whole city of Anthakla gets scattered among the planes.

This last accident should discourage the CW from further attempts.

Edited by Efreet, 12 June 2004 - 05:00 AM.

[Mr Ennigma]

Having read thru the old thread and now this one I am curious as to why this has never gotten off the ground? There seems to be more than enough ideas. I've seen several posts where people have said there needs to be more for evil players to do in BG. While the question is simple enough I realize the answer may not be. Just curiousity on my part.