74 replies to this topic

[NiGHTMARE]

If it's so unimportant, then why the heck are you reading - let alone posting in - this thread?

I also hardly think "teenage loremasters" (just for the record, I'll be 23 in little over a month) would be overly interested in psycho-analyzing people as we're doing with Renal.

Owned.

[T.G.Maestro]

Fine, I'll edit the mod so that Renal kills you all. Then you can all be happy

No need for that Lucy, although it would still be a bit more better than the current implementation - please don't take this as an offence, but thats the truth.

How about the chance to stop Chloe before she goes too far, and then Renal Killing you all, or at least Chloe, if you allow her to be so rash. For good measure, Arkanis Gath can do it.

A perfect idea, I hope you are reading this Lucy. It would keep Chloe's nature as you intended her to act, but would restore Renal's reputation from its ashes. Not to mention that it wouldn't be too much work, and you'd have to add 2 or 3 new short dialogue lines only.
She would start threatening Renal, so the PC would get a chance to shut her mouth before causing too much harm - if she would continue and keep threatening him, Arkanis Gath would appear and kill her. Not something that an author would like to add in his/her NPC mod (since nearly all NPC modders tend to make his/her character a bit more.. special ).

***

At least TGM finally did something on his own..

Before I would say anything, I would gently ask you to log in. I'm not interested in talking to such nameless nuisances like you, who doesn't even have the courage to show their face while throwing insults to others - frankly, people like you make me smile. You are less than nothing, friend - yet you keep causing trouble.
Agreed, I do the same thing sometimes, but always with a constructive intent - I bet you never saw me criticising something or insulting others simply because it made me feel better.
And about that "something" I made - what did you do on your own (aside from this quality post of yours)?

Actually, it doesn't really matter, I'm done with you.

[Schatten]

A perfect idea, I hope you are reading this Lucy. It would keep Chloe's nature as you intended her to act, but would restore Renal's reputation from its ashes. Not to mention that it wouldn't be too much work, and you'd have to add 2 or 3 new short dialogue lines only.
She would start threatening Renal, so the PC would get a chance to shut her mouth before causing too much harm - if she would continue and keep threatening him, Arkanis Gath would appear and kill her. Not something that an author would like to add in his/her NPC mod (since nearly all NPC modders tend to make his/her character a bit more.. special ).

then what about the tob encounter? now renal doesnt need to send his crew to you.
i think this idea is better then the assassines renal would send, as shadowmaster pointed out.

[Hendryk]

A perfect idea, I hope you are reading this Lucy. It would keep Chloe's nature as you intended her to act, but would restore Renal's reputation from its ashes. Not to mention that it wouldn't be too much work, and you'd have to add 2 or 3 new short dialogue lines only.
She would start threatening Renal, so the PC would get a chance to shut her mouth before causing too much harm - if she would continue and keep threatening him, Arkanis Gath would appear and kill her. Not something that an author would like to add in his/her NPC mod (since nearly all NPC modders tend to make his/her character a bit more.. special ).

then what about the tob encounter? now renal doesnt need to send his crew to you.
i think this idea is better then the assassines renal would send, as shadowmaster pointed out.

No need to restrict Renal to just one tactic. Once the party is off in Tethyr in ToB, they're of no further use to him - excpet as he might improve his own reputation among the ST's by doing something dastardly to them. He wouldn't need much motivation, I wouldn't think, to pull something nasty there. He's just that kinda guy.

[Lucythebeast]

then what about the tob encounter? now renal doesnt need to send his crew to you.
i think this idea is better then the assassines renal would send, as shadowmaster pointed out.

Actually, no it wouldn't be. And what makes you all so sure that he'd send a mindless group of assassins to kill her?

[T.G.Maestro]

Actually, I'd be against the whole assassin-actionforce idea. I agree with Lucy, I don't think he would do it at all. Renal is not an evil bastard, he is "business-man" of sorts. He pays for services that are important to him, and ruthlessly annihilate those that could endanger his position - but he is no common murderer. He wouldn't send a group of killers after the party unless he has a VERY good reason to do it. Don't forget that he has his own life and career in the guild, and I think it is very unlikely that he would ever cross paths with the more and more powerful Bhaalspawn, the "Terror of the Sword Coast" simply for some petty revenge or anything like that.

The best and most fitting (IMO) solution for the changed Renal-Chloe banter would look like this:
- Chloe would ask Renal for her payment.
- Renal wouldn't give her anything, this part of the conversation looks fine;
- Chloe would start to threaten Renal, no changes;
- Renal would offer Chloe to pay her money + some additional gold IF he helps with the Mae'Var quest (without spoiling that quest, simply telling her that there would be another small "task", one that would require her special skills of course).
- After a comment a small outburst from Chloe the PC would have the opportunity to choose from 3 dialogue options:
A.: help Chloe attack Renal and his guards - this action would summon Arkanis Gath, and would result in the destruction of the party
B.: the party would let Chloe attack Renal, but wouldn't interfere in the battle - Chloe would be killed by Arkanis, and Renal would make his offer for the Mae'Var quest after a brief banter with the PC.
C.: The PC would tell Chloe to back up and would listen to Renal's offer.
Either way, if the party would accept his quest with Chloe in the party, and she would still be with them after they return to Renal (after killing Mae'Var), they would get an extra 2000 Gold, which would cover Chloe's payment.

What do you think Lucy, do you find these ideas fitting into your mod? I think this way you could keep Chloe's personality, while avoiding such terrible flaws in Renal's character.

[NiGHTMARE]

Not to mention the fact that Renal is only the Athkatlan Silhouette of Burglars, meaning he has no assassin sub-ordinates to order around anyway.

Of course he could ask his boss (i.e. Aran Linvail) or the Silhouette of Assassins for a favour, but I doubt they'd be willing to waste their mens' time (and definitely not their mens' lives) on a silly personal vendetta of Renal's.

[Lucythebeast]

What do you think Lucy, do you find these ideas fitting into your mod? I think this way you could keep Chloe's personality, while avoiding such terrible flaws in Renal's character.

That's missing the point that Chloe is bluffing and Renal knows she's bluffing. Chloe isn't a bloodthirsty idiot. They both saved face with that dialogue. Renal didn't pay a copper more than he had promised and Chloe appears tough without actually going to stupid lengths to prove it. I don't agree that Renal would appear weak to his subordinates, it would all depend on him. He could laugh and say "I woulda paid the stupid wench twice that." and would appear more shrewd to the other thieves.

Besides, a man like Renal doesn't stay in his position by earning respect, he maintains it by fear. If not to himself, then the loyal bodyguards he has around him. The other rogues would know he wasn't in any "real" danger, at least not in anymore than he was with the PC, who they would distrust quite a bit more if they know he/she is a Bhaalspawn (which I assume they would... everyone else seems to know it just by looking at you....).

[Schatten]

then what about the tob encounter? now renal doesnt need to send his crew to you.
i think this idea is better then the assassines renal would send, as shadowmaster pointed out.

Actually, no it wouldn't be. And what makes you all so sure that he'd send a mindless group of assassins to kill her?

sorry. i interpreted your post wrong.
i just wait what you have done for tob. because there will be a consequence as you said. cant you give a little hint?

[T.G.Maestro]

I like T.G. Maestro's suggestion for a change of dialogue. Chloe can't expect to live after such an encounter, no matter how strong she considers herself, it seems foolish of her to do that to Renal when she says in a dialogue she's careful not to make more enemies

what's going to happen when word gets out that he let someone threaten him in his own guild and he even gave in to it? It's just folly to put that dialogue in, I say remove it, or change it to something BELIEVABLE

Exactly.

That's missing the point that Chloe is bluffing and Renal knows she's bluffing

I don't really think so. In his current dialogue, Renal looks completely unaware of Chloe's bluff, he IS frightened after her threats - if you would at least change this so it is obvious that he knows she's bluffing. He should say something sarcastic to Chloe's words, and even a bit threatening at the same time. Remember, it is Renal who can threaten anyone in his guild, not Chloe.

I don't agree that Renal would appear weak to his subordinates, it would all depend on him. He could laugh and say "I woulda paid the stupid wench twice that." and would appear more shrewd to the other thieves

Sorry, but he would look more of a weakling to me this way... frankly, what is shrewd in losing more than a dozen assassins and STILL paying 3000 Gold to a mere girl..?

a man like Renal doesn't stay in his position by earning respect, he maintains it by fear.

Now, after this conversation with a teenager he looks truly fearsome.

[Lucythebeast]

Now, after this conversation with a teenager he looks truly fearsome.

Huh? Who's a teenager?

[T.G.Maestro]

Of course I was exaggerating with that comment, but you have to admit she looks like a 15 year old girlie on her pic (especially the small one) .

[Feanor]

I worked on the only released BG2 total conversion: Glory of Istar.

The Glory of Istar has been released or do you mean only the demo version ?