74 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

I've recently had Chloe's banter with Renal Bloodscalp - the one that replaces Yoshimo's dialogue. I have two problems with this, one of these is a minor suggestion, while the other is a bit greater problem.

1.: Please, tell me that this dialogue was meant to be a joke. C'mon, how comes Chloe to threaten Renal in his own guild, and actually force 3000 Gold out of his pocket??! This is extremely ill-planned story-wise. If we examine that siutation from the gaming point of view, Chloe wouldn't last longer than 5-6 seconds against Renal and his pupils. Maybe she would cut down one or two before poisoned, trapped and backstabbed into small chunks of rolling flesh. She wouldn't stand a chance against Renal only. So I think her boasting about how she would kill all the thieves and assassins in the guildhouse is pretty much silly. The fact that you made Renal surrender to such empty threats is even more so - again, please. Renal is the high-leader of Aran's Shadow Thieves in Athkatla - are you saying that he would fear one such as a 8-10th level kensai? Hardly.

2.: There is another problem with this dialogue - once it ends, Renal stops the conversation with the party. You have to walk to him with the PC again, but he will think he already explained his quest for you, which looks a bit flawed if you ask me. I'd suggest either continuing the dialogue after the Chloe interaction just as it was done with Yoshimo, or have Renal start his dialogue from the point where he first meets the party.

[discharger12]

I've recently had Chloe's banter with Renal Bloodscalp - the one that replaces Yoshimo's dialogue. I have two problems with this, one of these is a minor suggestion, while the other is a bit greater problem.

1.: Please, tell me that this dialogue was meant to be a joke. C'mon, how comes Chloe to threaten Renal in his own guild, and actually force 3000 Gold out of his pocket??! This is extremely ill-planned story-wise. If we examine that siutation from the gaming point of view, Chloe wouldn't last longer than 5-6 seconds against Renal and his pupils. Maybe she would cut down one or two before poisoned, trapped and backstabbed into small chunks of rolling flesh. She wouldn't stand a chance against Renal only. So I think her boasting about how she would kill all the thieves and assassins in the guildhouse is pretty much silly. The fact that you made Renal surrender to such empty threats is even more so - again, please. Renal is the high-leader of Aran's Shadow Thieves in Athkatla - are you saying that he would fear one such as a 8-10th level kensai? Hardly.

2.: There is another problem with this dialogue - once it ends, Renal stops the conversation with the party. You have to walk to him with the PC again, but he will think he already explained his quest for you, which looks a bit flawed if you ask me. I'd suggest either continuing the dialogue after the Chloe interaction just as it was done with Yoshimo, or have Renal start his dialogue from the point where he first meets the party.

I felt the same way too. Even if the whole party helped, Arkanis Gath would come in and backstab everyone to death at the flick of a wrist.

[thecursed]

there may be some history between her and renald that we know not. even if the dialogue did surprise me, it shows her strength of character and confidence in her abilities. and frankly it may be just that behavior that intimidates renald. but i should let lucy answer this.

[Longinus]

1.: Please, tell me that this dialogue was meant to be a joke. C'mon, how comes Chloe to threaten Renal in his own guild, and actually force 3000 Gold out of his pocket??! This is extremely ill-planned story-wise. If we examine that siutation from the gaming point of view, Chloe wouldn't last longer than 5-6 seconds against Renal and his pupils. Maybe she would cut down one or two before poisoned, trapped and backstabbed into small chunks of rolling flesh. She wouldn't stand a chance against Renal only. So I think her boasting about how she would kill all the thieves and assassins in the guildhouse is pretty much silly. The fact that you made Renal surrender to such empty threats is even more so - again, please. Renal is the high-leader of Aran's Shadow Thieves in Athkatla - are you saying that he would fear one such as a 8-10th level kensai? Hardly.

The problem is the whole Shadow Thief guild is meant to be a shadow of its former self due to the strains of the current guild war when it is in fact one of the most powerful criminal organizations on the face of Fareun. As if a group of vampires could dislodge the Shadow Thieves from their seat of power...

However, for the sake of the game's underlying story, the Shadow Thieves really are a bunch of wimps. Gath is merely there to prevent the player from killing characters necessary for the story to progress.

But anyway, I agree with you: Renal would kill anyone who threatened him, or at least try.

[Kish]

I don't really have a problem with the idea of Chloe being able to wipe out the Shadow Thieves' guild alone--after all, they're routinely defeated by solo PC kensai working for Bodhi. However...I can't imagine Renal would let his people see that he's afraid of Chloe, even if he is. Losing face the way he does would guarantee he'd get a knife in his back before she reached the door.

[Longinus]

You don't fight the real Shadow Thieves anyway; you fight BioWare's vision of them. They should be far more organized, numerous and deadly, but in the game they are just a bunch of thugs who don't pose much of a threat to the player character.

You don't even invade the Shadow Thieves' real guildhall. The one you enter is a front.

So, Renal wouldn't tolerate threats against his life, but he probably wouldn't survive a confrontation with the player character, and his/her party. Notice that when you turn against the thieves, Renal disappears. There's no sense in going down with a fake guild I suppose.

[Lucythebeast]

there may be some history between her and renald that we know not. even if the dialogue did surprise me, it shows her strength of character and confidence in her abilities. and frankly it may be just that behavior that intimidates renald. but i should let lucy answer this.

Erm... read the Chloe Introductory fiction... Chloe's connection with Renal, and more importantly to Aran Linvail is explained there. Besides, even if Renal knows that Chloe couldn't take out his entire guild by herself, he knows that she could kill HIM at least, and that's all he cares about.

[Kish]

But how does he expect to survive letting a whole guild hall full of ambitious thieves see that he's afraid of one woman?

[Longinus]

Besides, even if Renal knows that Chloe couldn't take out his entire guild by herself, he knows that she could kill HIM at least, and that's all he cares about.

You make it sound as if Cloe is always the one in control. I don't think Renal would be afraid of her at all, especially within the safety of his own guild.

[discharger12]

Besides, even if Renal knows that Chloe couldn't take out his entire guild by herself, he knows that she could kill HIM at least, and that's all he cares about.

You make it sound as if Cloe is always the one in control. I don't think Renal would be afraid of her at all, especially within the safety of his own guild.

I agree with Longinus, with all the thieves surrounding you, it would be dim for Chloe to get out. But as I said before, she has 5 people to back her up.

[JeriGammill]

Chloe is 100% warrior!  And right is right!  And as Lucy said, Renal knows that SHE could take HIM out!  And Chloe doesn't doubt that for a second!

[T.G.Maestro]

Oh come on people HOW in the Hells could Chloe kill Renal? How? Can she see invisible? No. Renal would drink a potion at the first mement she would turn on him, and backstab Chloe - maybe with a poisoned weapon. And all the thieves in the room would do the same... and the ones downstairs... and the ones outside the house...
sorry, thats why I said that she wouldn't stand a chance against Renal at all. And I'm sure such a dedicated and feared man as the Bloodscalp knows this well.

I would like to have this dialogue changed, if you don't mind. It would only do good to the mod, and would make Chloe's character a bit more believeable - right now I have the same feeling that I had while watching Legolas defeating the whole crew of the Mumakil and killing the beast with a single shot...

[T.G.Maestro]

Though, in reality, the ONLY way Chloe would get the cash out of him was if she were his wife and threatened to withhold sex :-p which we very well know is not the case.

Heh, absolutely!

[Longinus]

The bottom line is: this is an unofficial mod with content that you may or may not agree with. If BioWare had written Chloe's dialogue with Renal Bloodscalp, Arkanis Gath would probably leap out of the shadows and stab everyone to death within seconds of threatening Renal's life (Maevar unleashes Gath on you if you push him, so why wouldn't Renal?).

It's a shame the Shadow Thieves aren't recognized by most players as the truly powerful organization they are meant to be thanks to BioWare's weak portrayal of them.

Try installing Avenger's rogue rebalancing mod and then see how easily Chloe wipes out the entire guild.

[T.G.Maestro]

It's a shame the Shadow Thieves aren't recognized by most players as the truly powerful organization they are meant to be thanks to BioWare's weak portrayal of them.
Try installing Avenger's rogue rebalancing mod and then see how easily Chloe wipes out the entire guild.

You've spoken my words here Longinus.

[stinky_Ogre]

I kinda got the feeling that Renal didn't really care. He was trying to keep the 3,000, but didn't really want to waste the few seconds to killl/debate with Chloe. He was going to try to keep the money, but if it didn't work, oh well.

[T.G.Maestro]

Yeah - and such an act would completely ruib his reputation. No, as a LEADER (and especiall, being a leader of a powerful guildhouse full of double-crossing thieves) one must show strength to be respected. And Renal is doing it in a most elegant way in his original Bioware comments and banters. It would be a shame to degrade his character into aweak-willed goon.
Again, I suggest chaning, or even better, removing this Chloe dialogue. I say remove it, since changing it to a more believeable version would be quite hazardous to Chloe's health.

[Lucythebeast]

It's not weakness to pay someone the money that you promised them for doing a job.

[NiGHTMARE]

It is if you do so after they've just threatened you.