74 replies to this topic

[Hendryk]

From the TRA file:

@824 = ~Well, if it isn't Chloe the wonder girl returning to stand before Renal Bloodscalp. Whattaya know?~
@825 = ~Wonder girl indeed. I believe you owe me some money, Renal.~
@826 = ~Pardon? I think not, girlie. I lost so many of my thieves that night. It did not even approach being a successful night!~
@827 = ~Not my problem. I completed the task you assigned me, therefore you owe me what we agreed upon.~
@828 = ~You can have a thousand gold coins and not a copper more than.~
@829 = ~You owe me 3000 coins, not a thousand.~
@830 = ~Perhaps I was unclear... you'll take a thousand or you'll get nothing at all!~
@831 = ~You'll pay me the 3000 or I'll slaughter every last one of your thieves and leave you hanging on the wall impaled by my sword while I gather up as much gold as I can carry.~
@832 = ~Then I'll leave you to bleed to death while I spend the coin on fine wine, great music, and lovely women.~
@833 = ~Eh... 2500 was it?~
@834 = ~3000. Pay up or it'll double.~
@835 = ~(Grumble) Here's your blasted gold. Threaten me again and you'll find a blade in your back when you least expect it.~
@836 = ~Pleasure doing business with you, shorty.~

This does not sound to me like a strong leader paying a debt that he honestly owes. Nor does Renal seem resourceful enough to have gained a guildmaster's position despite being a coward. The only other qualities he might have are being sneaky and vengeful enough to assassinate anyone who behaved so, yet there are no repercussions. If Renal is neither tough nor smart nor remorseless, he doesn't convince.

[T.G.Maestro]

If Renal is neither tough nor smart nor remorseless, he doesn't convince.

And what really pains me is that he was both tough and smart in his Bioware implementation.

[Hendryk]

Judging from her later condescending attitude towards Aran, he wouldn't object in the slightest. Also, people who "make a name for themselves" by association with criminal organizations and then flaunt their independence so assertively are practically begging to be killed. Instead of Renal Bloodscalp, try thinking Tony Soprano and imagine how he'd take an outburst like this.

[Xenomorph]

? I think not, girlie. I lost so many of my thieves that night. It did not even approach being a successful night!~

I'd suggest changing this line to something that's more grammatically correct. Perhaps "I think not, girlie. I lost so many of my thieves that night, it did not even approach me as being anything close to successful!"

Of corse, this is just me being anal.

[VigaHrolf]

I guess one could look at this as 'Hand Cannon Syndrome'

That is, Renal is looking down the barrel of a large gun and its pointed at his head. That is Chloe and her new friends. He wants to save his skin.. yada yada. That could intimidate, but I would agree it doesn't quite fit.... but not in my opinion for the intimidation factor but in the unwillingness to pay. If you hire mercs and don't pay them, you won't get more mercs. At least good ones. That would weaken his position as would his breaking 'business deals'

Now a few of his associates coming to visit later on and trying to get Chloe with some poisoned daggers or such, that would help it out, reinforce it a little.

Just thinking out loud here. Course it never really bothered me when I saw the scene. *shrug*

VH

[Schatten]

"That is, Renal is looking down the barrel of a large gun and its pointed at his head. That is Chloe and her new friends. He wants to save his skin"

he is a high lvl leader of a very powerfull organisation. do you really think he has to fear such a little gang? he quaffs a potion and is gone and summons immediatly an asassine squad that backstabs the whole party into sliced bread.

[Lucythebeast]

It takes time to quaff a potion and have it work. At least a few seconds. Renal has seen Chloe behead someone in less than half that time. Renal is also far too distracted by Bodhi to worry about some upstart mercenary who got paid her fair wage and had to use tough negotiation tactics to get it.

Renal himself states that he doesn't like people who are too agreeable and don't state what they want in short order. He likes people that show a backbone, and don't over-state a threat. Chloe didn't go too far, she showed bravado or perhaps simply just self-confidence in her skills and spoke honestly that she would kill him if he went back on their deal. The rest about killing the other guildmembers was more of a bluff than anything else and was seen as such, but it would undermine her threat if she didn't say it. It's not very scary if someone says "Yeah I'll kill you then get backstabbed by your guards here... but I'll still get you!" Renal wouldn't trust his underlings enough to have him resurrected if he was killed so he'd want to avoid getting killed at all costs. What it all boils down to is: he had bigger fish to fry.

I can understand the points raised against this dialogue, but I don't agree that they warrent me taking it out. The part about Yoshimo not being in the party causes a minor bug is a valid point though... I remember the opposite was true when we were testing... Yoshimo being present caused this problem and we compensated for it and I guess it made the opposite true. I don't have the knowledge or skills to fix it so that both possibilities are accounted for... so if I take this dialogue out it will be for that reason only.

[VigaHrolf]

Okay, we have Renal, the high level leader of an organization, and angry, armed, and extremely quick person with in arms reach. To quaff that potion, he needs to grab said potion, uncork, drink and wait for it to take effect. Call it 5 seconds at best. All someone has to do is unsheath and slice. And I've seen a 70 year old man unsheath a katana so fast I could barely even see it. Chloe's faster and younger. Call that 2-3 seconds. Renal still loses, or at least its real real bad odds.

Also, the backstabbing... to backstab, one must be unobserved to strike. In a combat situation it would not be the easiest to hide in the shadows. Now with magic you can, but that magic can be countered. I mean in the game, you can be standing in plain sight, hit the button and you're hidden which is just more than a little ridiculous. So I doubt that the party, prepared and ready, would be 'backstabbed into ribbons'.

Yes, it probably leads to a bloodbath. But Renal I doubt really wants to die.

This is just my opinion. *shrug* But I do think that the various and sundry opinions have been made and the modmaker had her say, so let's give her a break, huh?

[Caedwyr]

A quick question. How does Chloe know that Renal doesn't have hidden archers/snipers or already invis theives covering her. From a crime boss' perspective, it would be the logical thing to do when you are planning on conning someone you know is very good at killing. It doesn't make sense from Renal's perspective to put himself in a position where he is forced to give in to a threat, if the other party calls him on his cheating.

Another point, for all Chloe knows, Renal doens't need to drink the potion, he could have a ring of invisibility or other magical method of disappearing. Someone in Renal's position would be expected to have several magical trinkets lying around.

A final point we need to consider, is that Renal has a pair of boots of speed. I think that even if Renal didn't take precautions before hand (pretty much unthinkable since he knows about Chloe's capabiilties) his experience with the speed granted him by the boots of speed would make him think he could evade Chloe. After all, he can move at superhuman speeds as well.

[thecursed]

its clear that we could argue on this subject for ages, and to say my piece, i find it quite interesting. but where is this discussion leading? lucy redoing the dialogue? if so, suggestion could be helpfull, a poll could be as well, but most of all, its the maker who gets final cut.

[Lucythebeast]

I can't say too much about this, but in ToB there will be a consequence for Chloe's threatening of Renal. And it'll work out to be a lot more interesting then some minor quest or a random encounter. I don't think anyone will be disappointed.

[Lucythebeast]

Guest, I don't know why you keep deleting and reposting that comment, but it's getting annoying. Everytime I come to check messages here now that shows up as a new message and lo and behold, it's the same message. We've seen it, you've gotten your comment in. Now let it be already.

[Kish]

The board appearing to have a new message is likely a board glitch. Guests can't do anything with their posts.

[Lucythebeast]

Fine, I'll edit the mod so that Renal kills you all. Then you can all be happy.

[Phantasy]

How about the chance to stop Chloe before she goes too far, and then Renal Killing you all, or at least Chloe, if you allow her to be so rash. For good measure, Arkanis Gath can do it.