43 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

I've had this idea at least 2 years ago, but had no time to work on it - currently Refinements takes up all my time, so it is likely I won't be able to do it myself in the near future .
Here is the basic idea:

Somewhere in Athkatla (or in another town/village) you would meet a wizard (Magnus Silverhand), who would make special items for you, but not in the same manner as Cromwell or Cespenar upgrade them.
He would enchant ONLY non-magical weapons or armors/shields for you, but you could decide the type of enchantment he puts on the item. There would be several sub-classes in the possible effects (enchantment bonus, equipped effects, combat abilities, general properties, etc.), and the player could choose from these lists the best combination for his/her new item. Each subclass would contain numerous possible effects, like +1,+2,+3.. enchantment levels, or different protection bonuses and attached spell bonuses in the Equipped effects sub-class. Every bonus to the weapon would have a price (the more powerful the effect is, the more gold would be required), and this cost would increase after every effect added to the item. An example:
-The PC has a non-magical normal Long Sword. He has the following options to choose from:
1. General Property bonuses
2. Equipped Effects
3. Combat Abilities
4. Enchantment Level
First, the PC picks the fourth option, the Enchantment Level. Magnus offers the following bonuses:
1. +1 (500 Gold)
2. +2 (2000 Gold)
3. +3 (5000 Gold)
4. +4 (9000 Gold)
There wouldn't be a +5 option, Magnus has no power to place such a powerful enchantment upon an item.
The PC picks Nr.2, +3 enchantment level bonus. He must pay 5000 Gold for this effect. Magnus asks him if he is satisfied with the current effects, or would choose more. The PC chooses "more". He decides to pick from the General Property bonuses sub-section:
1. Reduce weight to 1 (200 Gold)
2. Faster attack Speed by 1 (250 Gold)
3. Increase attack range by 1 (2500 Gold)
etc.
The PC's choice is to reduce the weight of his new sword to 1, so he picks the first option. It would cost him 200 Gold, but since this is a secondary effect already, there is a Gold penalty of 1000. This means he pays 1200 Gold for the second effect. Again, he decides to pick more (he has tons of Gold ). He picks from the Combat abilities sub-class this time:
1. Elemental damage weak/medium/heavy (1000/3000/6000 Gold)
2. Bonus poison damage weak/medium/heavy (750/3000/7000 Gold)
3. Stun effect, save vs. spell at 0,10%/hit short/medium/long (2000/5500/10000)
4. Bonus damage vs. cre type weak/medium/heavy (500/1500/4500 Gold)
5. Vorpal blade 20% chance to save vs. death at -2 or die (10000 Gold)
6. Dispel Magic on hit weak/medium/powerful (1250/4000/9000 Gold)
etc, you get the picture.
The PC decides to pick the Vorpal blade effect for 10000 Gold. But sionce this is a "third" effect on his weapon, there is a 5000 Gold penalty on the price, which means he pays 15000 Gold for this level of the enchanment.
He could continue forever (the penalty for the fourth enchantment would be 10000 Gold, 15000 for the fifth, etc.) if he would have enough money. But this time he is out of gold, so he decides to pay for the newly enchanted blade:
- it is a +3 Vorpal Long Sword, its weight is now 1, and it has 20% chance/hit to kill the opponent (save vs. death at -2). Its price is as follows:
+5000 for the enchantment level
+1200 for the weight bonus
+15000 for the vorpal effect
= 21200 Gold. Or something like that, the prices may change for balance .

Any ideas?

TGM

[igi]

Yeah, its a good idea and its been tossed around before.
No-ones ever implemented it due to the insane amount of work it would require.

[jester]

Dang, I do not have enough money on me. Could you just make it a vorpal toothpick and some spare napkins please.

[khay]

Excellent idea!

The prices seem a bit low, but maybe that`s just me. I think one should only allow the player to enchant the weapon step-by-step, ie. first only allow to make it +1, after it`s +1 allow +2, then +3 and finally +4.

[Nesquaam]

Wow, you gave it quite a thought, didn't ye?
If I'm correct this would mean you could make your own wanted items.
YAY, hope someone will make it.

[Hendryk]

A couple thoughts from the RP side of this...

You could use a timer so that, after he's done one item, he won't do another for 'x' number of game days 'cos he's tired. He could also have a % change of screwing something up completely. The harder the job, the more likely he'd be to fail. No refunds, though.

If the PC is having a reasonably powerful (ToB level) item made, say +3 with a couple extra abilities, it would be nice if he/she could give it a name that would appear in the item description.

If the PC gets greedy by asking for too many items created or a second, consecutive item of +3 or better, there should be a chance of attracting hostiles, powerful Cowls, a demon, illithid, etc. who would spoil the enchantment and scare Magnus into fleeing without a forwarding address but with any money you paid him. Getting nothing but a ruined item could be really galling if the now-ruined item used as a basis was very useful already, like the amulet of power or the ring of Gaax.

[jester]

I basically like the idea behind this, Hendryk, but wouldn't you just reload, if the item gets ruined?

[Hendryk]

Sure. Or just CLUA in another one or even the best case result. I wouldn't think it worthwhile to try to "beat" a player who's determined to cheat. Even if you tried to solve it by setting a variable way beforehand, a determined cheater, such as myself, could always find and reset the variable in SK.

So it would be more for the "feel" of Magnus as a new source of magic items, rather than anything that should really impact play all that much.

If you really wanted to get into the wiz as an NPC, he could send you on minor quests, reward you for scrolls and items you bring him (wand of wonder, for instance). Who knows what his game is? Could be more than a simple businessman like Cromwell.

[jester]

Don't get me wrong. I used to play games even with the motto 'got killed, bad for you' and did not resurrect fallen party members. This is not the 'evil item' idea from FWP. But there has to be a plausible story behind this, because , if you just give him daystar and a rogue stone, and both get trashed without some information to why and how, people will suspect it to be a bug most of the time IMO. This is not only about cheating, but to make the loss credible for RP.

[Hendryk]

Well, the Cowlies break in while Mangy is casting:

Cowlies: Stop! This is not a bug! It is a legitimate in-game attempt to halt unsanctioned use of magic!

Mangy: Oops. I'm outa here. Bad luck, CHARNAME! {tellys off}

Cowlies: Curses! Missed him. Oh, well, he was obviously just a mercenary so we'll take you instead, CHARNAME.

<fight starts>

Of course, the dialogue could be less crude but I think most players would get the idea: don't be so damned greedy.

[Mongoose87]

In that case, how about an option to dish out additional gold to bribe the cowled ones?

[Hendryk]

Sure. You could resolve the problem with the Cowlies that way. Mangy's casting would still have been interrupted though and the item he'd been working on ruined.

Powerful items need powerful enchantments. Powerful enchantments, unless shielded by place or preparatory magic, attract unwelcome guests. Arranging such shielding would be the source of numerous little quests that Mangy might send the PC on.

Mostly because I find Cromwell and Cespenar too automatic and boring.

[Caedwyr]

It'd be interesting to have a option to have Mangus attempt to perform the enchantments without the additional preparation, but with a higher chance of failure. The PC could also have the option to do several different tasks for Mangus which would increase his chance of success. Arranging for magical shielding against scrying and emmisions, improving his workshop, finding new manuscripts which allow Mangus to perform new types of enchantments. There is definately lots of potential in this idea, and there could be a number of related quests built into the mod.

One thing is, if the player is going to put a whole lot of effort into helping Mangus upgrade his workshop and such, then you may want to work the Planar Sphere (if the PC is a mage), and later the Pocket Plane (Any class) into it. It'd be a shame for the PC to go to all the work to open up new item upgrades, and raise Mangus's chances of success only to have it all made unavailable by ToB. The first area that the PC opens up in the Pocket Plane could possibly be altered to a work-room with a little work. There is nothing in that room currently.

Also, I think the original idea was for Mangus to enchant new items from Non-magical equipment, not upgrade old stuff. There are already a couple of item upgrade mods that handle that aspect.

[igi]

I read this last night, and posted about the insane amount of work it would require.
To prove myself right, I started making it
To my surprise, within an hour or 2, I have a system for upgrading a plain old longsword into a longsword with any combination of enchantment (+0 through +4), 0 weight and extra acid damage. The upgrades can be done in steps, so first you can upgrade to a +2 longsword, then come back later and upgrade to a +2 acid longsword.
The coding is too horrific (yet) either, 20 script blocks, 5 dialog blocks (including saying hello and goodbye), and 20 items. And it does have limitations (it can only handle 1 upgradable weapon of each type, i.e. one longsword, one bastard sword etc).

Anyway, the moral is, it can be done, and it will take a lot of work, but it may just be worth it.

On an only slightly related note, I am going to make a mod out of this, if no-one minds? I dont want it to feel like I am stealing any ideas though, so I'll ask permission, is it ok? It wont be exactly like what's discussed here, but it will be recognisably similiar.

[Stone Wolf]

It sounds great.

I'm planning something similar, but since it'll be in the second part of a rather large mod it won't be out for ages. I'm hoping to allow a fair variety of items (rings, amulets, wands, armor, weapons, etc.) so it will be a tremendous amount of work. I'm also planning to put in component requirements as a way to limit what can be done. For example, a ring of fire resist will need a component that represents fire resistance in some way. The only problem with that is adding those items to the game.

Anyways, like I said what I'm planning hasn't even begun so it would be great to have something similar to play with.

[T.G.Maestro]

On an only slightly related note, I am going to make a mod out of this, if no-one minds?  I dont want it to feel like I am stealing any ideas though, so I'll ask permission, is it ok?

No problems of course. The only thing I'd ask is to count me in as second-level member of the creative team. I'd like to help as much as possible, so please keep me posted with details and plans and progress reports.

[jester]

Mostly because I find Cromwell and Cespenar too automatic and boring.

Yup they feel like vending machines sending you on a shopping tour. I like failed quests, i.e. non-outcome optimized quests that yield a RP value which is not just the invisible, vorpal, throwable Daystar of the Ages.

@ Hendryk: The dialogue does not have to be this disruptive, but I think major enchantments even indoors should not be save from the prying eyes of the cowled nasties.

@ bt_igi: The download link is not working.

[GreyViper]

Usualy its masterwork wepons that can be enchanted, but I dont think SoA has them, dont remember about ToB(IWD2). To make things not so easy you can make new plain masterwork weapons that can be enchanted (but that's more work). Only sold at best and biggest stores. Anyway I wanted to ask about armors, will they work same way.

[Mongoose87]

What I meant by paying a bribe to the wizards, was in adance so they would'nt interrupt.

[igi]

@jester: what download link?


Okay folks, heres what I plan (contains spoilers. Maybe):

A mysterious wizard appears, and offers his services. He leaves a "calling card", so you can contact him (eg. accessable from SoA and ToB).
When you contact the wizard, you are transported to his "lab" (a custom area, hopefully).
You initiate dialog, and can upgrade a base weapon. Some upgrades require an item, other just gold. The following upgrade abilities are planned:
Enchantment (0)
Enchantment +1
Enchantment +2
Enchantment +3
Enchantment +4 (req. Rogue Stone?)
1d6 Acid damage (req. Vial of acid)
1d6 Cold damage
1d6 Electrical damage
1d6 Fire damage
1d6 Magic damage
Stun
Lower weight (to 1?) (req. Illithium? Adamantite dust?)
+10% Acid resistance
+10% Cold resistance
+10% Electrical resistance
+10% Fire resistance
+10% Magic resistance

Hopefully the damage and resistance options will be available multiple (but limited) times.
You then receive your custom item (with a chance of failure, which can be altered by providing upgrades of some sort. Magical tomes, information etc).
You can return later to upgrade your weapon further (so on the 1st visit you could add +4, and on a subsequent vist you could at 1d6 acid damage and +10% acid resistance, and therefore end up with a +4 1d6 acid damage, +10% acid resistance sword.
Of course, the wizard isnt helping out of the kindness of his heart

Sound okay?
Other possible item upgrades:
AC (vs damage type)
Attacks per round
Extra damage
Find traps
Haste(??)
Horror immunity
HP modifier (max, current)
Poison?
Regeneration
Save bonus (death, wands, petrification, breath, spells)
Stat modifiers (str, con, dex, int, wis, cha)
Timestop immunity(???!)
Unconsciousness immunity
Vocalize

And now, some limitations:
You can only have 1 item of each type ugraded (ie. 1 longsword, 1 shortsword etc)
The beta version will only demonstrate longsword upgrading. It should be out by the end of the week.
You cannot upgrade existing items (ie. cant upgrade carsomyr, or even a longsword +2). Can only upgrade the base items supplied with the mod (or, hopefully, any generic item, eg. any plain longsword, any plain shortsword etc).

If this sounds ok, say so, i'm hoping for some quick feedback, so I can make this while I am till motivated to do so.