235 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

Please guys, lets just post these in the "insults to the Authors" thread, just to avoid completely hijacking this one (as if it wasn't already ).

[Littiz]

Really not to argue, but you are partially wrong. They shouldn't be recovered after resting - they are not memorized and copied into books as normal mage spells, they work more like innates powers. By this method we can take full control over their use (we can set different "cooldown" for each of them, depending on power - another nice balancing tool!).

The point is that they shouldn't be recovered if you DON'T rest.
Nothing in BG2 is recovered without rest: not a magic missile, not an innate.
Certainly this cannot start with True Dweomers.

And not because you don't have any - you can fight till your very last breath when it comes to the SA, I'm sure you remember  . And although I tend to be a bit pushy even there, I always respect your decisions (even if I don't like some of them personally).

Of course, but SA is a very "confined" component, while here we're talking about changing a basic system of the game.
If one should work on (and play with) this mod, he should at least agree somewhat on the course of action. And I don't agree with you in many points, right now.
But, since I don't want to start another flame war (unlike what our faithful followers are thinking ), I'll behave differently this time.
You must understand that it's too tiring to debate with you.
You also seem to have a damn lot of free time: this certainly isn't true for me, and I barely manage to do some parrying here and there for all the things you keep putting in the cauldron (now even Wish for celestials!).
Yet figthing always with strenght "100" to obtain "1" is too tiring for me.
So I'll just abandon this component, for we cannot find an agreement here, and there would be too much work involved (you also plan too many TDs).
I'm leaving TOTAL freedom to you, you can do it any way you want and I'll input it, promise (provided the solutions used are correct: this is the only thing I ask, otherwise we'd lower the overall quality of the mod. The above thing isn't correct, for instance).
As for my personal views on the component, if I won't like it, I'll simply won't install it. It's just that I don't have the time and the will to debate it.


Now, how can one be more peaceful???
(a joinable pair, now that's an idea!! I wonder what portrait people would assign me )

[T.G.Maestro]

The point is that they shouldn't be recovered if you DON'T rest.
Nothing in BG2 is recovered without rest: not a magic missile, not an innate.
Certainly this cannot start with True Dweomers.

In that case we can make them simple once/day abilities. Truly, thats the closest to the original (pnp) concept of these so far.

So I'll just abandon this component, for we cannot find an agreement here, and there would be too much work involved (you also plan too many TDs).
I'm leaving TOTAL freedom to you, you can do it any way you want and I'll input it, promise (provided the solutions used are correct:

And since I can't script, this nulls the whole idea, as you are well aware.
Unless I ask someone else to do it, but I won't go that low, simply out of respect.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 28 October 2004 - 10:44 AM.

[Littiz]

But of course -as you pointed out- this solution makes it imopossible to "develop the same TD twice" (which sounds rather impossible itself).

Caught in the net again, since again you're running full circles.
If you don't want multiple picks of an ability, you can't use a fixed 2DA for the selection time.
Already selected abilities should disappear from the list, or appear greyed, as it happens with the tables.
You'd think it's easy to keep track of all the issues at once?

In that case we can make them simple once/day abilities. Truly, thats the closest to the original (pnp) concept of these so far.

At least it's better than admitting that the only way to implement the cooldown was the one I told you, uh?

And since I can't script, this nulls the whole idea, as you are well aware.  
Unless I ask someone else to do it, but I won't go that low, simply out of respect.

TG, I've found solutions to problems that were generally considered unsolvable by the community (ex: use scrolls, shapeshifting, the spell shield fix...).
This doesn't make me the perfect modder, but "respect" would mean trusting a bit my words, without forcing me to battle over the same things for almost a month. Respect would also mean not implying that you could "replace" me by simply covering the scripting part.
But if you think so, I'll teach you what I know about scripting (in truth I don't know so much).
A script is:
IF something THEN something.

But you could seek indeed for that external help (you have my blessing), or you could also attempt a non-scripted solution, it's fine for me anyway, and I'll input it if it works and all the other issues are correctly handled
Peace, again

[T.G.Maestro]

At least it's better than admitting that the only way to implement the cooldown was the one I told you, uh?

I give up.
For all the time, it was not about arguing with you or anything, I simply tried to implement something I though would be nice. If it is indeed impossible, than sorry for my behavior. I think it was understandable to have someone TRY to reach a goal.

At least it's better than admitting that the only way to implement the cooldown was the one I told you, uh?

I admitted several imes already that your solution is technically correct. I think I was crystal clear when I said that there were other problems with it.

This doesn't make me the perfect modder, but "respect" would mean trusting a bit my words

Don't be a martyr Littiz, I trust your words well enough, and the same applies for your skills when it comes to modding. This does not equal with ignoring my own beliefs on a subject though. The fact that I TRY to do something seemingly impossible on my own should not be considered stupidity or arrogance.

But if you think so, I'll teach you what I know about scripting (in truth I don't know so much).
A script is:
IF something THEN something.

Thank you.

But you could seek indeed for that external help (you have my blessing), or you could also attempt a non-scripted solution, it's fine for me anyway, and I'll input it if it works and all the other issues are correctly handled

I won't. Either you understand me or don't, doesn't matter. I would NEVER do something like this.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 29 October 2004 - 06:38 AM.

[Schatten]

if i wouldnt know you two were dudes i would think you are a married couple. you sound like my parents sometimes.

[Caedwyr]

I know what you mean Schatten. Kinda reminds me of Grumpy Old Men.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Grumpier Young Men.

Indeed.

[Littiz]

I won't. Either you understand me or don't, doesn't matter. I would NEVER do something like this.

Then you'd have no need of provoking the thought.
But again, I am serious: feel free to implement TDs with someone else's help, I'll input them (if they work correctly; please give also some thought about how they could be best handled by the installer as a separate component ).

Don't be a martyr Littiz,

Not a martyr nor a servant

Grumpier Young Men.

Hey, I tire of this myself, this is not team working.
One should not need to explode in order to get the collaborator consider his opinions (like with my alternative version of Inner Time, not even tried once by TGM despite my initially gentle - and multiple - requests, or like with my "minimalist" views over TDs).

I am just adapting to the situation without trying to impose my views.
When I get only the option between working on things as "ordered" or renounce to the component (if you notice, I can manage to obtain a shift in the concept, but only with the strenght of technical reasons - and even there, not without a lot of pain), then I prefer making a step back and leave total freedom to TGM (and to anyone willing to help him doing his stuff).
I'll work when I'll happen to agree with the concepts, or even when I won't, provided the work required isn't massive as in this case.
I'm sure it's evident that I can't be more open than this

[T.G.Maestro]

Understood, issue closed.

The idea is dropped for now then.

[Feanor]

Similarly the Planetar summon isn't that useful as a TD if summoning one is going to be a lengthly process and it only sticks around for 1 turn and has the other TD effects.

Summon Planetar is useful...

On the other hand if there was TD that summoned 2 Solars it'd be pretty interesting even if it took 3 rounds to cast and applies spell failure and fatigue and all that

TWO Solars ??!!! It would totally screw the balance (even if you use a weaker version).

[the bigg]

Really, a kinda stupid question: I know that dialogues don't look as great as menus and all the rest, but how about this:
TD innate: 0 casting time, it starts a non-set dialogue (StartDialogue(Myself,"tg#trued") ) which says:

"You prepare to remember your spell...".
You are shown your options, according to level / class / intelligence / whatever, EG "summon Planetar" -> this adds the innate Summon Planetar and applies a delayed effect to delete it if not cast in 1 round (to avoid adding multiple pre-castings and such).
You then get replied: You remembered your spell."

Afte this, you cast the innate (which has casting time = intended one minus 1), which summons the planetar and removes your planetar innate.

Various scripting solutions & other exotic stuff can be added for Wish : Rest and other possible errors.

{after all, the slayer already pops-up a dialogue, and, unless you have TOB / Asc, it isn't really needed, as it's there only to prevent mis-clicks (stupid, isn't it???)}

[T.G.Maestro]

Yes Bigg, this is an option too.
We will definitely continue this discussion after v2 has been released.

[LarryTheArcher]

Really, a kinda stupid question: I know that dialogues don't look as great as menus and all the rest, but how about this:
TD innate: 0 casting time, it starts a non-set dialogue (StartDialogue(Myself,"tg#trued") ) which says:

"You prepare to remember your spell...".
You are shown your options, according to level / class / intelligence / whatever, EG "summon Planetar" -> this adds the innate Summon Planetar and applies a delayed effect to delete it if not cast in 1 round (to avoid adding multiple pre-castings and such).
You then get replied: You remembered your spell."

Afte this, you cast the innate (which has casting time = intended one minus 1), which summons the planetar and removes your planetar innate.

Various scripting solutions & other exotic stuff can be added for Wish : Rest and other possible errors.

{after all, the slayer already pops-up a dialogue, and, unless you have TOB / Asc, it isn't really needed, as it's there only to prevent mis-clicks (stupid, isn't it???)}

I like this Idea, similar to using the power "Sorcery" after completing the Planar Sphere Mod... It works well. It is a one time spell, innate abiliity that is given back after a rest.