149 replies to this topic

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Just curious, but why the limits on scribing scrolls? Personally I find that I rarely use scrolls at the levels you are talking about. Who cares if one of the party members can scribe 1, 3, 5 or 500 times a day?

There are easier ways to cheese gold than scribing for profit too....

[Schatten]

if i have 100 time stop scrolls something is wrong there isnt it?

[Stone Wolf]

if i have 100 time stop scrolls something is wrong there isnt it?

If you have that many scrolls a Thief with UAI is awesome. If you haven't tried it already, do so. Trust me.

[Caedwyr]

If you leave the scrolls component so it cannot be picked unlimited times, then you still need an ability that can be chosen many times. Otherwise, under the proper conditions, the player will run out of hlas to choose, which could mess up their level ups.

[Littiz]

@Caedwyr, it happened already in the original game. I intended to smooth it, but TGM wanted to merge the three bonus spells in one, and so we are at the starting point.
It's not a big deal, anyway. Mages have gained in power, they really don't need an additional HLA, we'd start to be partial otherwise.

Gentlemen, about the rest:

• UAI has been removed for thieves, replaced by Use Scrolls
  
• From the new Scribe Scrolls description: "Notice that even if the process is successful, enchantments placed in such a fast way are necessarily incomplete and unstable, so they will collapse and destroy the scroll itself in about 12 hours."

I challenge you to gather 100 Time Stops scrolls! B)

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I challenge you to gather 100 Time Stops scrolls!  B)

You forgot to add, "Without cheating...."



CLUAConsole:CreateItem("scrl9r",100)

[Schatten]

I challenge you to gather 100 Time Stops scrolls! B)

if its possible i do it. (i am not very familiar with cheats or cheese so you must tell me how i can do it if there is a way )

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The duration of Channel Magic seems to be too low. 2 rounds just isn't enough.

I also don't see how this ability is better in any way than the existing 9th level Wizard spell "Spell Trap" ... Spell Trap lasts 1 round per level, absorbs magic just like Channel Magic (and isn't limited to 8th level effects), and Spell Trap does't disable spellcasting.

Channel Magic also doesn't seem to protect against spells like Melf's Minute Meteor. In my test party I had Nallia cast this spell and Pi, my PC, then use Channel Magic. Naillia almost killed poor Pi.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The Spirit of Flames HLA isn't very party friendly. In order to use this ability at all I had to put my Sorcerer pretty far away from the party or they all tened to take minor damage every round. Not making party members immune will make summons go hostile and will prevent the sorcerer from using this HLA in any sort of party formation.

If I have Pi use it and stand far away from everyone then it is unlikely that she will get any benifit from the hand attacks.

If I have her use it while party members are around then she will disrupt other party spellcasters and make summons go hostile.

That looks like a no-win situation to me.

How is it intened that this HLA be used?

[Littiz]

I also don't see how this ability is better in any way than the existing 9th level Wizard spell "Spell Trap" ... Spell Trap lasts 1 round per level, absorbs magic just like Channel Magic (and isn't limited to 8th level effects), and Spell Trap does't disable spellcasting.

Who says it has to be "better"? It's a new -and differently named- ability.
Channel Magic is not limited to 30 spell/levels, anyway.
For the 3928320928-th time, the new sorcs' abilities are additional innates the sorc can use at his pleasure. They fit well, so they're fine.
Now that they also have access to Aura Cleansing (coded as innate)...

Channel Magic also doesn't seem to protect against spells like Melf's Minute Meteor.

It's a very special spell, and part of the damage is that of a normal projectile.
It partly goes through stoneskins, and also through protection from magical weapons, IIRC.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Who says it has to be "better"? It's a new -and differently named- ability.
Channel Magic is not limited to 30 spell/levels, anyway.
For the 3928320928-th time, the new sorcs' abilities are additional innates the sorc can use at his pleasure. They fit well, so they're fine.
Now that they also have access to Aura Cleansing (coded as innate)...

Heh! Well for the 3928320929-th time you are replacing *powerful* 10th level spells like Summon Plantar, Dragon's Breath, and the like with these new innates so, when something looks unbalanced I post.

Anyway as I see it here is the breakdown:

Spell Trap
- Absorbs up to 30 levels of spells & rememorizes used spells with the energy absorbed
- Lasts 1 round per level
- Does not disable spellcasting
- Is a 9th level spell, so can be cast multiple times if selected or cast from scroll

Channel Magic
- Absorbs any number of spell effects of 8th level and less & rememorizes used spells with the energy absorbed
- Protects from ?death? & a few other effects
- Lasts 2 rounds
- Disables spellcasting
- Is an innate ability

For me the comparison would be similar to that between Greater Whirlwind and Improved Haste for fighters. In that instance the two are clearly different and which is ?better? depends on the situation.

The Spell Trap / Channel Magic deal is not so clear cut to me. Just looking at that list I would lean towards Spell Trap as being better most of the time. I mean, really, even in ToB how often do you have more than 30 levels of spells casts at your sorcerer in 2 rounds? I can?t think of any. On the other hand you *are* hit by 9th & 10th level spells.

Just IMO Channel Magic could be better balanced if it lasted longer *or* didn?t disable spellcasting *or* could absorb 9th & 10th level spells. Of all these I would lean towards increasing the duration the most.

I do want to mention that the Channel Magic animation is superb! I loved it!

Now that they also have access to Aura Cleansing (coded as innate)...

Yep I'm going to try that one out tonight. Brace yourself!

Channel Magic also doesn't seem to protect against spells like Melf's Minute Meteor.

It's a very special spell, and part of the damage is that of a normal projectile.
It partly goes through stoneskins, and also through protection from magical weapons, IIRC.

Hmm. I was pretty sure that Protection from Magical Weapons stopped it. Will test.

[Jinnai]

I dunno if its that clear cut between Spell Trap and Channel Magic.

Certainly the fact that channel magic doesn't last as long nor can block level 9 and 10 spells hurts also the fact that CM disables spellcasting can hurt.

On the other hand, CM is an inate which can be of great use when you can't cast spells. And its protections (although it would be nice to know what other effects it prevents).

All things considered though, if the rounds were increased it would be fine as a 20th level mage can prebuff himself in certain situations with ST, but never really CM. True it only absorbs up to 30 spell levels which might not last 20 rounds, but the proetection is still there just incase.

If you want to do it a set number i'd say 5 rounds (as you don't want to be forever not casting your spells).

I do say reguardless, 2 rounds is a bit short even if this is being rebalanced against other skills the sorceror is getting.

[Caedwyr]

PfMW stops Melfs Minature Meteors. If it didn't then a lot of enemies would be much easier to defeat.


Regarding the Channel Magic ability. I agree. Either increase the duration, or enable spell casting. As it is, the only time I would turn this ability on is if I were to be activating Tenser's Transformation through a spell trigger or contingency. For a pure casting class, the inability to cast spells is a big drawback. For a solo sorc, it may have many uses since they will be a primary target. However, for those of us who let our tanks do the fighting and take the heat, this spell isn't so useful.


You may notice that my complaints about the usefulness of this spell seem to mirror my complaints about Foresight. In that case, I ended up admiting to the advantages of the spell, since in the ToB game there are a good number of enemies that use large area of effect spells or abilities that hit all of your party (Demogorgon's gaze, etc). If someone can explain to me a tactic/circumstance where it would be to the Sorcerer's advantage to use Channel Magic over Spell Trap (especially since the Staff of the Magi can cast it) I will again concede that the spell should remain unaltered.

[Littiz]

Once upon a time, an isolated player in the whole world, known as UU, decided to give a chance to two abilities NO ONE bothered to consider, the two deathblows.
He discovered what was laying under everyone's nose: lots of monsters have 8- (or 12-) Hit Dices.

I don't really know if something similar can be appliable to Channel Magic, but I do realize that every single report about balance, so far, has been in truth a request for more powerful abilities.
A truly unbiased debate should swing both parts, don't you think?

BTW, Channel Magic also offers complete protection against Magical Damage, and you don't want it to last longer since it disables spellcasting.
Including 9th level spells might be an option, though. We'll see.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

During testing level ups last night I noticed that Cernd ran out of pickable HLAs at a far lower XP range than any other NPC I had.

Would it be possible to add an Alchemy like HLA for Druids? Maybe called Herbalism? Or even an "Enhanced Goodberry" HLA

I don't really care what they could make, it would just be fun for them to not run out of selections so soon.

[Jinnai]

Once upon a time, an isolated player in the whole world, known as UU, decided to give a chance to two abilities NO ONE bothered to consider, the two deathblows.
He discovered what was laying under everyone's nose: lots of monsters have 8- (or 12-) Hit Dices.

I don't really know if something similar can be appliable to Channel Magic, but I do realize that every single report about balance, so far, has been in truth a request for more powerful abilities.
A truly unbiased debate should swing both parts, don't you think?

BTW, Channel Magic also offers complete protection against Magical Damage, and you don't want it to last longer since it disables spellcasting.
Including 9th level spells might be an option, though. We'll see.

Not all requests...i know i've seen atleast one that said a power was too powerful.

But giving them more spell immunity isn't really imo as appropraite as extending the duration, and its only for a few rounds i'm saying. I definatly think absorbing other TD is unbalanced.

But i guess it really matters to what it blocks other than death and 8th and lower level spells.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Not a new cheese, but and adaptation of an old one to go with your new HLA.

Cast Chain Contengency - Sunfire + Delay Blst Fireball X2, on self when helpless.

Then use Energy Storm.

Energy Storm makes you helpless. Lots of damage.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I'm still having problems with the short duration of Channel Magic.

Could we see this HLA last for 3 rounds or even 4 instead of just 2?

[Caedwyr]

Something else that could be done with it, is give it a longer duration, but allow the player to end it early with a special ability. I've done this for another spell I made that is supposed to be cancelleable at the caster's desire.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Caedwyr that would be cool & very logical for this effect. I would really like that for this ability ... but the main thing for me is that 2 rounds is just way to short.

Had some more fun with Energy Storm today. With Ring of Free Action the caster is able to ignore the 'stun' side effect, though they do eventually fall asleep. If a friendly cleric casts regeneration before the spell then it's side effect damage is healed almost as fast as it is dished out.