i found it weird that you go to hell when you kill jonnie in SOA and continue on from there, but if you die instead (bodhi handed me my ass on a silver platter the first time i played BG2), then the game just ends (yes i know you die, *gameover* for gaming puposes) but i mean for role-playing puposes shouldn't your death also drag him down to the abyss with you? maybe you say its cuz he died on the tree of life so there's some kinda weird magical mess-up but if CHARNAME dies on the tree its still gameover, i just think that simple thing ruins the game somewhat cuz its not fair that only you gotta fear death more.
Irenicus and Death
Started by
-Kriz-
, Mar 16 2004 10:23 AM
15 replies to this topic
#2
jester
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 10:53 AM
You mean before or after he got your soul in spellhold?? 'Before' why would he you are completely separate entities altogether. 'Afterwards', if you die in an unconnected starship crash (Life of Brian), why should he care? He is there, because he is now tied to your soul and you just killed him.
"It's 106 miles to Arroyo, we got a full fusion cell, half a pack of RadAway, it's midnight, and I'm wearing a 50-year old Vault 13 Jumpsuit. Let's hit it!" -The Chosen One
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#3
-Ashara-
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:59 AM
well, we do not know what happens to Irenicus after PC dies, either from wasting away, or from Bodhi's hand, or at the Tree. It is plausible, that Irenicus dies unwittingly at that very moment, or feels his new soul slipping away, making him to step up the race for the imunity of immortality. But all we see is a <CHARNAME>'s death, because there is no epilogue if you lose a game. That would be a neat feature, say changing from chapter to chapter 
#4
dorotea
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:24 PM
A neat name for the thread 'Chapaev and Void' anybody ? 
As for Jonny boy dying with you after he gets your soul - neat idea indeed. He should be dragged in there and forced to a contest with you, if there is any fairness in this Universe... But Bio ruled there is none.
If a drow lass (who is a friend of mine) will convince me to write a 'completely evil' path for SoA mod, we can include this feature.
As for Jonny boy dying with you after he gets your soul - neat idea indeed. He should be dragged in there and forced to a contest with you, if there is any fairness in this Universe... But Bio ruled there is none.
If a drow lass (who is a friend of mine) will convince me to write a 'completely evil' path for SoA mod, we can include this feature.
Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.
Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.
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#5
jester
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:46 PM
Yes *cheers* evil path, evil path 
@no epilogue if you lose a game
The gamers assume that you immediately reload when you die so an epilogue would be prob a waste of time to make.
@As for Jonny boy dying with you:
Do you know the film Dragonheart (I love Sean Connery's voice in there)? The evil king dies when the dragon dies, because they share the same heart/soul/life energy.
@no epilogue if you lose a game
The gamers assume that you immediately reload when you die so an epilogue would be prob a waste of time to make.
@As for Jonny boy dying with you:
Do you know the film Dragonheart (I love Sean Connery's voice in there)? The evil king dies when the dragon dies, because they share the same heart/soul/life energy.
"It's 106 miles to Arroyo, we got a full fusion cell, half a pack of RadAway, it's midnight, and I'm wearing a 50-year old Vault 13 Jumpsuit. Let's hit it!" -The Chosen One
Free your mind
Free your mind
#6
-Guest-
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:56 PM
As for Jonny boy dying with you after he gets your soul - neat idea indeed. He should be dragged in there and forced to a contest with you
cool, i mean y'know its unfair that only you face the consequences of death, maybe it should be more like: he dies, you both go to hell (original game thing)
if you die then you still both go to hell but you start out level drained and with a little less xp (or some stat drop like permanent con less by 1-2)
as for where to die, i think it should maybe only work on the tree, cuz dying there sorta shifts the power of life emmanating from the tree of life or something and causes some kinda chain reaction death on everyone there cuz of the very essence of death/murder (bhaal blood). cuz i really thought original reasons for the whole party to die was pretty lame "i felt you needed me so i came to help"
the opening scene to entering hell says that others were injured badly enough to get dragged down too or something like that, LAME! two of my party members weren't even hurt by 1hp from the battle so that was a pretty unsatisfactory explanation IMO.
cool, i mean y'know its unfair that only you face the consequences of death, maybe it should be more like: he dies, you both go to hell (original game thing)
if you die then you still both go to hell but you start out level drained and with a little less xp (or some stat drop like permanent con less by 1-2)
as for where to die, i think it should maybe only work on the tree, cuz dying there sorta shifts the power of life emmanating from the tree of life or something and causes some kinda chain reaction death on everyone there cuz of the very essence of death/murder (bhaal blood). cuz i really thought original reasons for the whole party to die was pretty lame "i felt you needed me so i came to help"
the opening scene to entering hell says that others were injured badly enough to get dragged down too or something like that, LAME! two of my party members weren't even hurt by 1hp from the battle so that was a pretty unsatisfactory explanation IMO.
#7
-Ashara-
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 01:28 PM
@no epilogue if you lose a game
The gamers assume that you immediately reload when you die so an epilogue would be prob a waste of time to make.
I think if I had a descisive epilogue (depending on my progress through the game when the character died) I would have been tempted not to resume the game, expecially in the late stages of the enterprise, because there would be a finality to the story. Say, if you died before going to Spellhold, the epilogue would be something like Irenicus turned to lichdom, while restored Bodhi hunted down Illasera to provide him with replacement soul, and some sort of great wizard's battle issued involving Cowled Wizards storming spellhold; if you died during your soul-less period, perhaps there can be a duel in the Nine Hells for the soul indeed, and depending on the result the epilogue can differ... I dunno, I think it would be more interesting than the assumption that you reload and go back into the predetermined path
Anyway, just a thought. Probably not for this mod, really, and gods know for which one.
The gamers assume that you immediately reload when you die so an epilogue would be prob a waste of time to make.
I think if I had a descisive epilogue (depending on my progress through the game when the character died) I would have been tempted not to resume the game, expecially in the late stages of the enterprise, because there would be a finality to the story. Say, if you died before going to Spellhold, the epilogue would be something like Irenicus turned to lichdom, while restored Bodhi hunted down Illasera to provide him with replacement soul, and some sort of great wizard's battle issued involving Cowled Wizards storming spellhold; if you died during your soul-less period, perhaps there can be a duel in the Nine Hells for the soul indeed, and depending on the result the epilogue can differ... I dunno, I think it would be more interesting than the assumption that you reload and go back into the predetermined path
Anyway, just a thought. Probably not for this mod, really, and gods know for which one.
#8
jester
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 01:43 PM
I hope you do not have any big plans after all the NPC talk is finished for BG1. It should be quite feasible to code. It would check for the globals needed and introduce the corresponding chunks of text much like the Fallout2 ending. You see what happened to everybody else after you 'left'.
By feasible I of course mean somebody else to code this. *points in various directions*
It should be quite feasible to code. It would check for the globals needed and introduce the corresponding chunks of text much like the Fallout2 ending. You see what happened to everybody else after you 'left'.By feasible I of course mean somebody else to code this. *points in various directions*
"It's 106 miles to Arroyo, we got a full fusion cell, half a pack of RadAway, it's midnight, and I'm wearing a 50-year old Vault 13 Jumpsuit. Let's hit it!" -The Chosen One
Free your mind
Free your mind
#9
Andyr
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 05:06 PM
I think Domi (and the rest of us) will be occupied with BG1 NPC for quite some time.
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#10
dorotea
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 05:45 PM
I think Domi (and the rest of us) will be occupied with BG1 NPC for quite some time.
You are doing great job so far. Hopefully by the time you guys are done I will be done with at least 1 of my mods as well - and will have time to play BG1 NPC and write Eldoth romance. (Maybe by that time I will have Tutu working on one of my computers as well...)
Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.
Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.
The Longer Road mod
Redemption mod
Bitter Grey Ashes
#11
-Ashara-
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Posted 16 March 2004 - 06:47 PM
@jester - Andyr is right - we have work planned out easily for another year if not more after the release of Phase I.I think Domi (and the rest of us) will be occupied with BG1 NPC for quite some time.
You are doing great job so far. Hopefully by the time you guys are done I will be done with at least 1 of my mods as well - and will have time to play BG1 NPC and write Eldoth romance. (Maybe by that time I will have Tutu working on one of my computers as well...)
@Dorotea - It's absolutely worthwhile the effort - TUTU works wonders for BG1 and yep, that Eldoth romance will surely be nice to add
to everyone - erm, dreadfully sorry for highjaking the thread.
Back to Redemption LR - the said drow is a highly presuasive and intelligent person, so I sense that evil-evil path will make its way in B)
#12
Black Baron
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Posted 25 April 2004 - 09:06 AM
I hardly see the reason for him been dragged if you die.
After all his soul has bee ripped out of his body, whereas you are a souless being...
After all his soul has bee ripped out of his body, whereas you are a souless being...
#13
Bjorn
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Posted 25 April 2004 - 11:54 AM
Eldoth romance would be great!Hopefully by the time you guys are done I will be done with at least 1 of my mods as well - and will have time to play BG1 NPC and write Eldoth romance.
#14
dorotea
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Posted 26 April 2004 - 10:03 AM
Yeah. I am afraid it won't be on the 'tender' side though... I have very special view of Eldoth. Erhm. Lets just say I once knew a guy like him. 
Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.
Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.
The Longer Road mod
Redemption mod
Bitter Grey Ashes
#15
fallen_demon
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barely untraind assasian
Posted 30 May 2004 - 10:00 AM
The idea of Irenicus getting dragged down w/ you sounds right, but i'll try to make an exusse:
The remnants of your soul that you actually have are a part of you, actually the deapest part since there what Irenicus failed to rip, while he took in your soul artificially and thus can choose to give it up artifiacilly.
As for the on death epilouges, I would never give up on a game and see it as conclussion, but it might be cool, although i would feel wierd finding out stuff you couldn't know at that point in the game, even if ive already beaten it and know what happens.
The remnants of your soul that you actually have are a part of you, actually the deapest part since there what Irenicus failed to rip, while he took in your soul artificially and thus can choose to give it up artifiacilly.
As for the on death epilouges, I would never give up on a game and see it as conclussion, but it might be cool, although i would feel wierd finding out stuff you couldn't know at that point in the game, even if ive already beaten it and know what happens.
"I choose to believe what I was programed to believe."
Futurama quotes rock
Futurama quotes rock
#16
kirkjobsluder
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Posted 30 May 2004 - 11:42 AM
I don't get why he would be dragged down. He has your soul, you don't have his.
