13 replies to this topic

[Michel]

So far I had only a few Chloe interjections. One with Aerie when she was still an Ogre, one with the Cult of the Unseeing Eye Outcasts and another I can't exactly remember atm.

First with Ogre Aerie she said "Just kill the Ogre and be done with it" then the minute Aerie' is in normal form she drool over her. At that point *I* wanted to say something like "Pfeh, a minute ago you wanted to kill her and now you're drooling over her"
Second with the Outcasts. " Just kill the followers and blah blah"
The third one was also about just barging in and kill to get the job done.

Oh yeah, i almost forgot. She totally pissed off Jahiera with her rant about Khalid.

Aren't these abit out of allignment/character? Or am I the only one thinking that.

[Bane]

She is true neutral so it really means she can swing either (but not in her sexuality ). Also these are her banters and not ACTUALLY her acts which truly determine what alignment you are.

[Michel]

She is true neutral so it really means she can swing either (but not in her sexuality ). Also these are her banters and not ACTUALLY her acts which truly determine what alignment you are.

Jahiera is True Neutral too, you won't hear here saying stuff like that. To me a person is defined by their actions, Chloe likes to kill before talking. I'd say that that doesn't make her 'neutral' at all. It seems like Chloe swings more to the evil side then the neutral side. I know, she isn't a copy of Jahiera but she uses the same alignment. I know totally nothing about PnP or DnD stuff so maybe she's 'in character' because of that. But to me i'd say she tends to be more 'evil' then neutral.

[Caedwyr]

(Completely putting the Context of Chloe aside)

A "Lets kill first, ask questions later" attitude definately swings towards the evil side. I could see Chaotic Neutral if there was no pattern and the character does both good and evil as the whim takes them.

[Jolinar]

It isn't Chloe not behaving neutral, it's more that Jaheira doesn't really act like a true neutral character. An alignment that fits her more would be neutral good, because except her "druid-balance-thing" she really behaves like a good character.
Valygar for example behaves not half as "good" as Jaheira.

Chloe doesn't want the main character to waste time doing useless quests instead of rescuing Imoen. She is right that just attacking the temple of the Unseeing Eye would be the shortest way, because if you do that the Beholder appears and you can kill him (though without the rod) and you don't have to do the whole 'get rod parts from here and there etc.'
As for the Aerie-Ogre thing, I think she says 'An Ogre ! If it's stupid enough to attack it will do it no good' or something like that, she doesn't actually advice you to kill it on sight.

[Gabrielle]

Her dialogue is right for the character that she is. She is from a warrior society and is not evil. So when she would meet up with a species that is known to be evil (yeah sterotype) her reaction would be to kill it ask questions later.

Jaheira is a contradiction, she is TN and a Harper. A Harper does things that is good for the world while a TN would just mind their own business. Harpers are known for sticking their noses into others affairs.

[Lucythebeast]

Jaheira is by far the least neutral TN character I've ever seen. The only reason she is TN is because by 2nd edition rules, which this game was based on in it's dying day, a druid had no choice but to be TN. Now, with 3rd Ed. rules, a druid can be TN, LN, CN, NG, or NE. As long as a neutral is in there somewhere. And Jaheira is most definitely NG.

Yoshimo is a far better example of a TN character. He uses the means that are best suited for the situation, which is the whole foundation of a TN character.

Often people focus too much on the balance aspects of neutrality. Some TNs actively seek to maintain a balance, but others are just non-committal. "It's best not to break the law in this city, but over here we can get away with it. We can help those people and screw those other ones over."

People associate selfishness with evil, but it's really not. Being selfish is being self-serving. It's doing what benefits you most, whether that's helping people or hurting them or not getting involved. Being evil is having a penchant for sadism and cruelty. If you're evil, you order a mother executed and laugh when the child is forced to live on the street... then you arrest the child for living on the street. If you're evil, you stab a man in the back then seduce his lover just for kicks.

The problem is, the alignments are often poorly explained and often open to interpretation. I remember a game I was involved with, a fellow player was playing a Chaotic Good warrior but I had assumed he was Chaotic neutral or evil because he kept killing people. His interpretation was that because his character was chaotic, he did things for no good reason. Most people would argue with him on that (as well they should), but in the end we could offer nothing more than our own philophical beliefs and arguments on the contrary.

So... in the end, it's all in interpretations. Chloe is not an inherently good person and has no use for noble intentions or diabolic actions. She walks quite comfortably in the middle and leaves the interpretations to others. Perhaps I didn't explain this too well in all this blabber, but I'm sure a number of people will respond with questions and counter-arguments so I won't worry about it now.

[Bane]

Jaheira is by far the least neutral TN character I've ever seen

should I be worried that Jaheira seems to be Lawful Neutral on my game?

People associate selfishness with evil, but it's really not. Being selfish is being self-serving. It's doing what benefits you most, whether that's helping people or hurting them or not getting involved. Being evil is having a penchant for sadism and cruelty. If you're evil, you order a mother executed and laugh when the child is forced to live on the street... then you arrest the child for living on the street. If you're evil, you stab a man in the back then seduce his lover just for kicks.

Sounds like the lawful evil description but I see what you're saying

So... in the end, it's all in interpretations. Chloe is not an inherently good person and has no use for noble intentions or diabolic actions. She walks quite comfortably in the middle and leaves the interpretations to others. Perhaps I didn't explain this too well in all this blabber, but I'm sure a number of people will respond with questions and counter-arguments so I won't worry about it now. 

I agree completely, but I am gonna argue and counter-argue anyway

[Neminus]

Let's face it, Chloe is a ruthless and savage sociopath bent on killing everyone who looks at her the wrong way (unless that person is wearing a dress and looking good in it. ) And that's the reason we love her so much.

[Bane]

that and not only is she a bitch but she is DA bitch!

aslo she is quite a good fighter, interesting banters, well made character but we'll ignore that for now

[kirkjobsluder]

*Obligatory, post about the stupidity of the alignment system in general.*

[Lucythebeast]

*Obligatory, post about the stupidity of the alignment system in general.*

I agree, the White Wolf system of Natures, Demeanors, and even Concepts make much more sense personality wise.

A faction system even makes more sense... though in it the actions are all that is important and not the purpose or the intentions... heh.

[Lucythebeast]

So far I had only a few Chloe interjections. One with Aerie when she was still an Ogre, one with the Cult of the Unseeing Eye Outcasts and another I can't exactly remember atm.

First with Ogre Aerie she said "Just kill the Ogre and be done with it" then the minute Aerie' is in normal form she drool over her. At that point *I* wanted to say something like "Pfeh, a minute ago you wanted to kill her and now you're drooling over her"
Second with the Outcasts. " Just kill the followers and blah blah"
The third one was also about just barging in and kill to get the job done.

Oh yeah, i almost forgot. She totally pissed off Jahiera with her rant about Khalid.

Aren't these abit out of allignment/character? Or am I the only one thinking that.

For the record, these are the Aerie dialogue comments:

Aerie(26): Who are you? Oh, whoever you are, you must flee this place at once! He...he's killed everyone else who has come into this place, almost! Oh, please run!
*Chloe: I have never heard an ogre talk in such a way as this. I think there is more than meets the eye here. Kill it though, if you think caution is the wisest course.


Aerie(0): You...you have the key! Or, rather...the sword! Please...please give it to me and I can be rid of this illusionary form at last!
*Chloe: You may as well. We can kill it in seconds if it's stupid enough to attack, sword or no. You went to all the trouble to get it anyway, and those peasants were monsters in disguise. Nothing is as it seems here, it would seem.


Aerie(3): My... My hands...my skin, it's real again! Thank Baervar! Oh, we must find Quayle...and stop Kalah before he does any more harm!
*Chloe: Wow... what a beautiful young elf you have become. <CHARNAME>, this may only be my hormones talking here, but I say we take this lovely elf with us. (Grin)


This is a far cry from "just kill the ogre and be done with it."

[Bloodaxe786]

I'd like to argue with Chloe being "DA bitch"


She ain't got nothin' on Valen...not in terms of fighting,or being plain nasty.

Shez more mush and less bloodshed than Valen is...I guess that works for some.