Sorry if this has been addressed - is a reason given for killing Garren? I usually play evil (out of spite, mostly, I guess) and yet I've only killed Garren once. I killed him that one time, really, just to have done it that once.
Firekraag plays your character for a fool the entire time and then suddenly you're going to help him - why? - because he promises future rewards?
bah, this character is more needlessly reckless than evil.
Do you give a reason to be evil in addition to providing gory (though cool - good job) descriptions of evil acts?
Evil titbit (SPOILER)
Started by Quitch, Feb 27 2004 04:58 AM
53 replies to this topic
#41
-um... dragon killer extraordinar-
-um... dragon killer extraordinar-
-
- Guest
Posted 29 July 2004 - 04:41 PM
#42
Quitch
-
- Modder
-
- 1132 posts
Perfection
Posted 30 July 2004 - 12:30 AM
Garren can only offer what he can for doing this quest. Whether you accept is entirely up to you, and your motives may vary. However, yes, the quest takes into account that a warm fuzzy feeling in your heart isn't always enough to tempt you.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#43
-um.. dragon killer extraordinair-
-um.. dragon killer extraordinair-
-
- Guest
Posted 02 August 2004 - 09:59 AM
ok, great.
You know, I jumped in with my comment about the Firekraag scenario not making sense to an evil (my type of evil, anyway) character without realizing that this mod is an addition to, rather than a subsitute for, the events happening during
the initial visit to Windspear. I guess I did wonder somewhat why it's called RETURN to Windspear - lol.
Anyway, now that I've bothered to check out some of the other topics, and since I don't kill Garren when Firekraag asks me too anyway, it does seem to me that this is something I'll probably like - the Imoen mod looks good too.
The "opportunity for evil" approach you aim for is what most has me looking forward to these mods.
You know, I jumped in with my comment about the Firekraag scenario not making sense to an evil (my type of evil, anyway) character without realizing that this mod is an addition to, rather than a subsitute for, the events happening during
the initial visit to Windspear. I guess I did wonder somewhat why it's called RETURN to Windspear - lol.
Anyway, now that I've bothered to check out some of the other topics, and since I don't kill Garren when Firekraag asks me too anyway, it does seem to me that this is something I'll probably like - the Imoen mod looks good too.
The "opportunity for evil" approach you aim for is what most has me looking forward to these mods.
#44
-Xaos Bob without his login-
-Xaos Bob without his login-
-
- Guest
Posted 09 August 2004 - 11:04 AM
First, Fred S Richardson said:
This would be the definition of a Mercykiller, the Planescape faction represented by Vhailor in Planescape: Torment. Saw it, needed to respond, there it is.
As to Garren's response, and the "nasty vs. evil" thing...
If we generally see the classic scenario of someone sliding a blade into a friend's belly while looking into their eyes as being, at the very least, a betrayal, a low blow, then why would crushing a helpless man's windpipe beneath your heel be anything less? Evil is not the outcome (usually)...it's in the process. Garren fearfully protests in several nonverbal (by necessity) ways, and still <CHARNAME> does not relent. He draws out Garren's fear of the inevitable, increases his powerlessness to near-palpable levels, causes added torment by the moment of relief and concurrent hope, then crushes both when again the boot comes down, destroying the man's face, and with it, his dignity and the peace his loved ones could know by having closure that is now forever denied...
Nasty, or evil?
Garren, as noble as he may or may not be, with his connections to the Order and his self-proclaimed goodness and knighthood all aside, in this scene, he is the helpless victim of murder most foul, at the hands of the child of the god of murder, the one who, arguably, should be the very best at it. Not bloodshed, not war-scale battle, but cold-blooded, premeditated murder, demonstrated here in its first degree. Any, even vaunted Keldorn, sassy Mazzy or mighty, clueless Minsc would be hard-pressed (pardon the pun) to react with anything nobler than Garren comes up with in this scenario. It is no longer about issues or ideals, there is no heroism, no resistance. Only suffering and death. The death of a lone, defenseless, unarmed man, in the middle of nowhere, with things left unsaid and things left undone, sins unconfessed and dreams now lost forever. This is a scene where the Bhaalspawn is taking away everything Garren has and would ever have, including an honorable death, and there is nothing Lord Windspear can do about it. Who wouldn't react this way, if placed under the Bhaalspawn's boot? And again, I reiterate...
Nasty, or evil?
Excellent work, Quitch.
But it would make a really interesting anti-paladin character to have someone who believes they were a (normal) paladin, but just thinks the other paladins aren't committed enough.
This would be the definition of a Mercykiller, the Planescape faction represented by Vhailor in Planescape: Torment. Saw it, needed to respond, there it is.
As to Garren's response, and the "nasty vs. evil" thing...
If we generally see the classic scenario of someone sliding a blade into a friend's belly while looking into their eyes as being, at the very least, a betrayal, a low blow, then why would crushing a helpless man's windpipe beneath your heel be anything less? Evil is not the outcome (usually)...it's in the process. Garren fearfully protests in several nonverbal (by necessity) ways, and still <CHARNAME> does not relent. He draws out Garren's fear of the inevitable, increases his powerlessness to near-palpable levels, causes added torment by the moment of relief and concurrent hope, then crushes both when again the boot comes down, destroying the man's face, and with it, his dignity and the peace his loved ones could know by having closure that is now forever denied...
Nasty, or evil?
Garren, as noble as he may or may not be, with his connections to the Order and his self-proclaimed goodness and knighthood all aside, in this scene, he is the helpless victim of murder most foul, at the hands of the child of the god of murder, the one who, arguably, should be the very best at it. Not bloodshed, not war-scale battle, but cold-blooded, premeditated murder, demonstrated here in its first degree. Any, even vaunted Keldorn, sassy Mazzy or mighty, clueless Minsc would be hard-pressed (pardon the pun) to react with anything nobler than Garren comes up with in this scenario. It is no longer about issues or ideals, there is no heroism, no resistance. Only suffering and death. The death of a lone, defenseless, unarmed man, in the middle of nowhere, with things left unsaid and things left undone, sins unconfessed and dreams now lost forever. This is a scene where the Bhaalspawn is taking away everything Garren has and would ever have, including an honorable death, and there is nothing Lord Windspear can do about it. Who wouldn't react this way, if placed under the Bhaalspawn's boot? And again, I reiterate...
Nasty, or evil?
Excellent work, Quitch.
#46
LordKableNikon
-
- Member
- 111 posts
I'm not a psychopath,I'm a sociopath....
Posted 01 October 2004 - 04:47 PM
Firstly Detect evil in Baldur's Gate works differently than really it should
Detect evil in BG2 is just a tool for paladin's to be "goodinaters"
where they cast detect evil and if it glows red they attack it believing all evil should die
now detect evil how it works is it detects evil in thoughts, that means Korgan who is CE (i think more LE) is drinking alone and just thinking about how the beer tastes, detect evil will not pop up.... now if he was thinking about world domination through force Detect evil would show him as evil, Detect evil detects evil intent... not alignment... So Garren may be evil and the radiant heart doesn't know it also Garren may have a god that isn't favorable towards him at the moment, also Garren might not have a god and his soul will be damned to be in kelevomor's soul wall, so dieing is not a thing he wants to do....
Detect evil in BG2 is just a tool for paladin's to be "goodinaters"
where they cast detect evil and if it glows red they attack it believing all evil should die
now detect evil how it works is it detects evil in thoughts, that means Korgan who is CE (i think more LE) is drinking alone and just thinking about how the beer tastes, detect evil will not pop up.... now if he was thinking about world domination through force Detect evil would show him as evil, Detect evil detects evil intent... not alignment... So Garren may be evil and the radiant heart doesn't know it also Garren may have a god that isn't favorable towards him at the moment, also Garren might not have a god and his soul will be damned to be in kelevomor's soul wall, so dieing is not a thing he wants to do....
#47
LarryTheArcher
-
- Member
- 178 posts
Posted 14 November 2004 - 05:34 PM
Back in Chaper 2 he tells you he talked down the Radiant Heart, but this is never confirmed, and how were they going to know you killed their men when the only witness was... Garren!
As long as people are suffering, Quitch will be happy.
Wrong. Firkraag, though not a witness, is the one who clothed them in the monster illusion. He is also a noble, as your party emembers, including Nalia (Who is the daughter of a noble) has heard of him. In the Paladin Stronghold quests, it is mentioned that the order has interaction with nobles. Therefor, Firkraag would have a chance to tell them, and implicate you in their utter destruction. Not to mention if you don't visit Garren, you are attacked by Paladins in the name of good until you do... that's a good signt hat they know.
Also, Level 15 Paladin's and up and cast Know Alignment, which will show Evil. Evil soul, not evil intent...
Irenicus: Now I have my revenge!
Protagonist: You talk to much...
Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)
Protagonist: You talk to much...
Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)
#48
Quitch
-
- Modder
-
- 1132 posts
Perfection
Posted 15 November 2004 - 05:36 AM
Back in Chaper 2 he tells you he talked down the Radiant Heart, but this is never confirmed, and how were they going to know you killed their men when the only witness was... Garren!
As long as people are suffering, Quitch will be happy.
Wrong. Firkraag, though not a witness, is the one who clothed them in the monster illusion. He is also a noble, as your party emembers, including Nalia (Who is the daughter of a noble) has heard of him. In the Paladin Stronghold quests, it is mentioned that the order has interaction with nobles. Therefor, Firkraag would have a chance to tell them, and implicate you in their utter destruction. Not to mention if you don't visit Garren, you are attacked by Paladins in the name of good until you do... that's a good signt hat they know.
Also, Level 15 Paladin's and up and cast Know Alignment, which will show Evil. Evil soul, not evil intent...
Garren says it was Firkraag, but I don't recall anyone else saying that.
Nalia has heard of him, which means there is a Garren Windspear. That does not mean this particular Garren Windspear is the Garren Windspear, nor even really called Garren Windspear.
Not all people meaning you or others ill are evil.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#49
LarryTheArcher
-
- Member
- 178 posts
Posted 15 November 2004 - 03:41 PM
Um, I didn't understand that. Well the first part, it made little sense tome. I'm jsut saying Yoshimo, Anomen and Nalia say something about FIRKRAAG. And if Anomen speaks about it, that means hes porbably either heard rumoprs, or the Order has dealt with him...
Irenicus: Now I have my revenge!
Protagonist: You talk to much...
Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)
Protagonist: You talk to much...
Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)
#50
Quitch
-
- Modder
-
- 1132 posts
Perfection
Posted 20 November 2004 - 06:11 PM
Quote "Don't forget lust, that isn't tamed here either."
- Does this mean we get to abuse Garrens innocent young daughter
I missed this one.
If you meet her/him, you will be welcome to try. Sexual predators are as much as character I cover as brutish thugs and noble idiots.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#51
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 20 March 2005 - 12:10 AM
"Dying isn't so bad, its coming back that's a real bitch"
?Eylon aged elven wizard.
In D&D coming back to life is supposed to be an agonizing experience.
?Eylon aged elven wizard.
In D&D coming back to life is supposed to be an agonizing experience.
#52
-NineCoronas-
-NineCoronas-
-
- Guest
Posted 29 April 2006 - 07:57 PM
Back in Chaper 2 he tells you he talked down the Radiant Heart, but this is never confirmed, and how were they going to know you killed their men when the only witness was... Garren!
I always thought that Firkraag would implicate the PC.
#53
Bane
-
- Member
- 1472 posts
Grand Master Noober
Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:23 PM
Funny how that when this mod had just begun in being developed I couldn't hurt a fly, but after rp on NWN I'm now Bane 
Garren could have a protection against detect alignments on him, like Sir Gaereth Cormaeril in Waterdeep, he's a CE paladin/Blackguard but should anyone do a detect alignment it would come up as LG because he has a feat that allows him to be protected by the power of Cyric!
Garren could have a protection against detect alignments on him, like Sir Gaereth Cormaeril in Waterdeep, he's a CE paladin/Blackguard but should anyone do a detect alignment it would come up as LG because he has a feat that allows him to be protected by the power of Cyric!
Power for the Keep, Power for the Zhentarim!
Defy me and die!
Defy me and die!
#54
Vherdel
-
- Member
- 26 posts
Posted 17 December 2010 - 07:19 AM
Sick?
Its decent enough I'd say, and serves that goody-two shoes bastard right.
I would love crushing his head beneath my bootheel.
As Bhaal liked cruel deaths especially, this would show of your taint nicely.
Although of course, killing or torturing his daughter before his eyes would be very very nice as well.
Well written, a true Paladins death; Crushed beneath the bootheel like a fly.
Although My assassin would probably compare this to stepping in fairy dung.
EDIT: Oh..its dead, dam nI'm always too late.
Its decent enough I'd say, and serves that goody-two shoes bastard right.
I would love crushing his head beneath my bootheel.
As Bhaal liked cruel deaths especially, this would show of your taint nicely.
Although of course, killing or torturing his daughter before his eyes would be very very nice as well.
Well written, a true Paladins death; Crushed beneath the bootheel like a fly.
Although My assassin would probably compare this to stepping in fairy dung.
EDIT: Oh..its dead, dam nI'm always too late.
Edited by Vherdel, 17 December 2010 - 07:36 AM.
