528 replies to this topic

[alustriel]

You most certainly cannot call the shots on Imoen's sexuality based on a couple of books that mangled the BG storyline so heinously that it no longer resembles what was intended.

I for one can see Imoen as either/or. There really is no specific dialog that shows her leaning to one direction or the other. This might be related to the fact that it seems Bioware first intended on killing Imoen off. You can see this in there is little Imoen dialog after you rescue her, and most of it is quest specific to boot. Perhaps if Bioware had done a bit more to flesh her character out we'd have the answer we sought, but unfortunately, we're stuck with speculation.

[Kish]

well... but if what they say about those books is true... then I'm afraid that Imoen is a total lezbo (no offense meant to any lesbian person)...

Only in the sense that "if what they say about those books is true, Khalid cheated on Jaheira and CharName killed him, Xan was a fighter, Minsc has red hair and was introduced in BG2, and Dynaheir never met CharName alive".

The books mangle the plot of the games. They're not an argument for anything. The fact that, in my BG1 games, Imoen seems to interpret a great many of my movement instructions to mean "go behind the bushes with Dynaheir" is a more relevant argument than anything about the books--and it's not relevant at all.

[Lord God Jinnai]

i don't suppose there's anything in bg1 to help us out either...

[Littiz]

Lucy, you've already made her wrong in your mod, leave this one be!
)

[Althernai]

The reason for this debate is because in the BG2 and TOB books Imoen is lesbian, as she sleeps with Phaere and fancies Melissian.

This has been said, but let me say it again, in bold letters: nothing in the book should be used to make a point about something in the game. Here is my justification: BG2 has a good story and interesting characters - not the "best story and characters ever", but still pretty good (at least good enough to inspire debate). The book, on the other hand, is one of the worst pieces of trash I have ever had the misfortune of setting my eyes on (didn't read the whole thing - a couple of pages somebody posted online and decided it is not worth it - judging by what people have said of it here, I was right). Some of the walkthroughs qualify as better literature than that. I can write better than what I read in those pages (and that is no small insult ). So let's not bring elements of this trash into something that is good, OK?

In fact, I would probably bring up the book as an argument for her being straight - the book gets almost everything else wrong, why not this as well?

[Auvrin]

Lucy, you've already made her wrong in your mod, leave this one be!  

Actually.. I don't see where Lucy even made a comment about this mod in general. No suggestions, nothing but an opinion. Just as it's your opinion of her mod.

Now... Would you like a whip and a sack of collars, Littiz?
Easier to control opinions that way.

[Littiz]

What I meant (and it was a bit of a joke too), is that Lucy is already working on a Mod where she makes Immie the way she wants,
there's no need to come here to attain the goal twice
(suggesting, too, that her judgement skills on sexuality are better than ours )
Anyway, to each their own

No, thx, no chains for me!
Should Immie be made a lesbian, I'll do without this mod probably <_<

[Littiz]

And just to make it clearer (I gave it for granted) I'm not an intolerant
of any sort.
It's just that making Imoen lesbian (or bi) would be, IMHO, a too strong and
arbitrary characterization.

That is, I could (and probably will) enjoy Chloe, who's born that way as
a character, while not Immie, who would be "forced" that way

[Dashael]

I'm not disputing any of the previous comments, but rather than identifying herself as bisexual, I would think Imoen wouldn't permit gender to enter into it. She strikes me as a character that would fall in love with a person rather than a man or a woman. As far as the game dialogs indicate, despite some lighthearted teasing, Imoen doesn't really 'check-out' anyone in a sexual sense.

Basically I don't think she'd have a sexual preference, but rather an emotional preference, based on the way she feels about individuals.

[Gospel]

This notion that Imoen is (or should be) a non-sexual being is one that comes up occasionally by others, including strong campaigners for a PC romance with Imoen. I don't get it. Sex is a strong drive. I do not see Imoen (or anybody, really) being immune to it. She does, or will, want to have sex with SOMEBODY, SOMETIME.

Imoen may love you the (CHARNAME) for who you are and so forth, but if she's not turned on by (CHARNAME), she's turned on by SOMEBODY.

Meow... with most peoples' reaction to the thought of an Immy kitty romance, it's a bit reflexive :(

Me honestly does prefer sweet things though, and.. kinkaroomytastic stuff, like neckbiting! Rowr :D

Me remembers a (mis?)quote that you saidies, from a certain romance, sir ^_^

*purrs* Me not thinkies Quitchy cat would ever get out of handies like that, but stills... shows what rampantamenty sex cans do *purrs* :D

[Kish]

It's just that making Imoen lesbian (or bi) would be, IMHO, a too strong and
arbitrary characterization.

It's no more or less "strong and arbitrary" than making her heterosexual. Yes, heterosexual people are a lot more common; no, I don't see how that relates to the concept of "a strong and arbitrary characterization". We have no evidence either way in-game.

[Entreri]

What surprised me about the books was that they changed the author for the TOB book ( probably because they realised the others were c%^p ) and that one is actually not badly written. Not true to the game but still not a bad read.

[Littiz]

@Kish: ask yourselves why the original romances were all hetro.
I'm hetro, I know people who aren't (just a few), but this doesn't
make me forget that being hetro is the normal condition.
If it wasn't, our race would long be dead by now.

Hey, if in our effort to APPEAR always more tolerant than necessary
we can't anymore state this simple truth, the world has gone mad.
The point is, I don't have to prove tolerant, I *am*, that's enough,
I've nothing against homosexuality.
Yet this is not what the natural flow of things typically impone to beings,
so yes, it *WOULD BE* too strong and arbitrary to force it in Imoen.

Especially in BG2 world, being homo would mean live without kids.
I'm sure Imoen would like kids, for instance.

That's my opinion, no way you can change it
If this mod goes that way, well, I'll avoid it

[The Wise Owl]

Why can't we just say she's straight and be done with it?The game really doesn't anything about it.Maybe she just doesn't like sex? Maybe she thinks it disgusting?It doesn't say otherwise.So thier is really no reason to be pulling up tidbits of info and saying things like "well if you take this banter and you drink yourself into a nearly canatonic state,smoke all the pot on west coast,and stick you dick in the blender (turned on high of course) the game says she's a lesbian".

[Auvrin]

Why can't we just say she's straight and be done with it?

That would be just like saying "Why can't we just say she's lesbian and be done with it?". Simply put, there is no indications pushing her one way or another. At most, it would seem logical to settle at bi, simply for the fact Imoen would put a person/thoughts/emotions befor the actual gender. Then again that's just the feel I get from her character. Consider this, Imoen and the PC grew up with no true family. They were their own family. They share a taint that has always put them out into the cold away from everyone else, they're different and they *are* shunned for it. I would think that kind of life experience would open a persons eyes to the fact race and gender don't really matter as long as they accept you for who you are, more so in the case of Imoen and the PC, as well as any other Bhaal spawn. They are the children of murder, and that would be enough to push ALOT of people away, I would think they would welcome anyone that would give them a true chance.

A little tip for you, directly and purposly insulting the opinions of some of those gathered on this board will only do one thing for you: They wont listen to your opinions. You have no way of even begining to attempt to alter their perception because you've already insulted the place where they stand, which in turn closes most their minds off to you.

[Loké]

The reason for this debate is because in the BG2 and TOB books Imoen is lesbian, as she sleeps with Phaere and fancies Melissian.

and we all know they people who wrote them were talking out their arse.

[Soldats]

@Kish: ask yourselves why the original romances were all hetro.
I'm hetro, I know people who aren't (just a few), but this doesn't
make me forget that being hetro is the normal condition.
If it wasn't, our race would long be dead by now.

Normal is only what the majority believes to be correct, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the belief is correct. A simple example of this: there was once a time when the majority of people were told and believed that the Earth was the center of this galaxy, people considered this normal, but modern day science has proven it to be false.

Who are we to say that heterosexuals are more right than homosexuals?

The reason for Bioware including only heterosexual romances is simple, they didn't want any controversy, since there's still so many sensitive (or intolerant, take your pick) people out there.

If the majority of the human race had been homosexual, I'm sure evolution would've gone a certain way to make sure homo sapiens survived as a race, heh. Unless of course, you're religious, then er... I dunno what to say. O.o;

[Teno20]

I'm religious, yet open minded. The big bang for eg. Science assumes that the Big Bang was how it started, but some other religious people say;

In the beginning, God created the universe, and everything in it.
Genesis ch.1 v1

Means just that, He built it like a builder builds a building, but the way I see it, He caused the Big Bang.

Now I forgot what point I was making... damn my crappy memory. Oh yeah, same with evolution, except I don't know about the monkey bit, (we don't go swinging through trees) so maybe Homo whatever was a different species. I'm gonna shut up now, before I end up turning this post into an essay.

[Quitch]

Science assumes that the Big Bang was how it started

Science assumes nothing. It puts forward a raft of theories, then says that such and such is the most likely due to X, Y and Z.

If the majority of the human race had been homosexual, I'm sure evolution would've gone a certain way to make sure homo sapiens survived as a race

Unlikely. Humans are hetrosexual (usually) because that *is* our way of surviving as a race. There is a good reason that almost every animal species on the planet evolved this way.

What surprised me about the books was that they changed the author for the TOB book ( probably because they realised the others were c%^p ) and that one is actually not badly written. Not true to the game but still not a bad read.

The first two books were written by the same person. He would have had meetings with the team and design docs to go on. His characters may be highly accurate, but were simply changed later, who knows?

The last book was written by a member of the ToB team, and thus likely had a better inside knowledge of developments. It would of course have been limited in what it could do by the previous two.

The writing of the first two is indeed dreadful, and you can tell this simply from the free extracts alone.

Normal is only what the majority believes to be correct, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the belief is correct

Normal is effectively the standard, and the majority of humans are hetrosexual, therefore hetrosexuality is normal. This doesn't in turn mean homosexuality is abnormal.

Game content is hardly what I would use as a way of arguing sexuality for Imoen. Her enviroment and the way she has lived makes for far better ground.

For example, Candlekeep. It seems clear her closest friend was you for a very long time, and the two of you share a tight bond. If she showed interest in no one else, perhaps this is the factor that decides her leanings?

Then there is Irenicus. All sorts of terrible things were done to Imoen. Perhaps this puts her off men forever, now that she has seen what they can do? Or perhaps (if the player is male) this simply acts as a way of driving her into their arms as she comes to rely on them in a time of great stress.

Stop thinking about what happened in the game and consider the consequences instead.