528 replies to this topic

[Solar]

I agree: gay people and players are too few for modders to be forced to cater for them and the straight majority.

Ahem.... I think that most of those who want Imoen to be lesbian or bi are actually straight men....

[LSWSjr]

Quoted from Solar on 19th Oct 2003: "Ahem.... I think that most of those who want Imoen to be lesbian or bi are actually straight men...."

Greetings and welcome Solar to this particular forum...

Just let me state as fact, that I have been arguing on this particular part of the forum for a duel (based on who she loves) or bi choice.

I admit to having played female PCs, even though I am a male, and I don't actually see any 'special' attraction to seeing my female PC getting it 'ON' with Imoen, anymore than I would with my male PC... Wait that came out wrong B)

Rather I would like to see how Imoen would react to the situation, considering this is not only her sibling, but a woman as well. This is not to say she might not already be a lesbian, but rather that the situation is far from what heterosexual persons would consider as the norm. I am also assuming you are of the opposite gender to myself... to have made that sort of comment.

If I or any other males wanted to see two women getting intimate, we could be heading off to millions of sites or sources of such material from the Internet-to-our Corner Newsagent.

If we wanted Imoen slash in particular, I'm sure we could find some site that caters for us somewhere.

In truth though, I would (upon the mod's release) play through with a female PC in the interest of observing how the relationship with Imoen changes from my female and male PCs, and this includes the 'Just Friends' aspect of the mod.

I truly doubt that the few but more devoted men out there would go through the 20 or so hours of Romance Global Variables simply to see some Bhaalspawn sister on sister action.

Lastly I'll say again where is the bi issue if Kelsey isn't trying to romance Imoen as well.


LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications/Productions/Studios Australia, signing off and celebrating his 50th post (took me long enough + hence the overuse of Smilies)

[Quitch]

Early in this project I went through a LOT of Imoen fiction. I think I found one story, BG based, which involved Imoen in a sexual context, in this case a lesbian context.

[Xaositect_Crayon]

What about an Akane Tendo style romance

people try to woo her and they all get a black eye

[kirkjobsluder]

Damn, wrong topic for this.

[Sav]

As far as I know there is nothing in the game which indicates this one way or the other, but I don't doubt that people have strong views on the matter, so express them here. Some sort of explanation for your view is, as ever, superior to the choice alone.

She has a talk with Haer'Dalis in Throne of Bhaal that indicates heterosexuality. Something about Haer'Dalis telling her he wished he could comfort her etc etc, sweet talking her in his charming way, and she seems quite touched at a point, due to the classic use of "I..."

Ofcourse, if anyone wants to over-analyse anything, there's that bit where she says she dreams about dryads - meaning there could be a bit of lesbian in her if she's dreaming of women.
Something about that dialogue doesn't convince me though, I can't place it, but I say she's heterosexual.

But if you wanna make her bisexual, do so. I'm kinda nummed to arguing over peoples' sexuality nowadays, and there's so many fanfics out there that make her involved in lesbian stuff. Most are done badly though, but I'll keep my opinions on fanfics outta this

[Jinnai]

What about an Akane Tendo style romance

people try to woo her and they all get a black eye

Well unless you happen to turn into a piglet... :whistles innocently:

[Jinnai]

But if you wanna make her bisexual, do so. I'm kinda nummed to arguing over peoples' sexuality nowadays, and there's so many fanfics out there that make her involved in lesbian stuff. Most are done badly though, but I'll keep my opinions on fanfics outta this

I don't think fanfics should be a basis for descionmaking.

Unless that is, its a fanfic about Ryouga Hibiki getting Akane Tendo, but even that is kinda sad in a way.

[JPS]

Plus, no matter how horrible the books are, it shows that Bioware/WotC/whoever is willing to have their name associated with a lesbian portrayal of Imoen. I don't think they'd shy away from having Imoen express lesbian tendencies in the game if they wanted that to be part of her character.

I don't want to pick on you or anything, but isn't this way of thinking a bit... peculiar? Imoen was a lesbian in the novels, which means Bioware didn't object to having her portrayed as a lesbian, which means she's not a lesbian... My head spins.

Personally, I don't think the timeframe of BGII is long enough for Imoen to get over her trauma & get close to anyone other than CHARNAME (& even that in a platonic way), but then again I think the same could be said of Jaheira.

I agree about this (well, not necessarily about the Jaheira part, but whatever...); it's not necessary, and perhaps not even realistic, to have everything happen within the game. Imoen's life goes on after the end of the game, and that would probably be a better time for any kind of romantic relationship. And in that case, it would just be a matter of making her ToB epilogue vague enough to make any interpretation possible (kind of like it is now...) and everyone can imagine the kind of relationship they like for her and everyone will be happy.

But there's still that small business of "allowing the player to develop a deeper relationship with their sister", where ? if you assume that whoever wrote it really meant the character and no the player ( ) ? Imoen's sexuality might still matter. Not because she would fall in love with the character and her sexuality would determine which characters are going to get laid, but simply because that's the kind of thing that you might expect your sister to tell you at some point.

[JPS]

Well, I obviously didn't mean that the relationship between the main character and Imoen should only be dealt with in the epilogue.

What I was trying to say was that it's not necessary for Imoen to have a romantic and/or sexual relationhip with anyone within the time frame of the game, and so it could be argued that her sexuality doesn't really matter and that it's best not to try to define it, since no matter what you say you would apparently, judging from this and other discussions, make somebody unhappy (something that Quitch apparently doesn't worry about, and that I really should worry less about as well...).

Then I realized that after twelve pages of discussion, saying "hey, it doesn't really matter, does it?" is not going to solve the problem...

You aren't going to be asking Imoen whether she's heterosexual or bisexual or lesbian in the mod, I hope. If the PC's known her nearly all his/her life then you should KNOW whether she's into men or women or both. What I'm saying is I hope we don't get any dialogues along the lines of "Hey, Imoen, you gay or straight?"

Well, I wouldn't like to see that particular line, no, but I do think that if Imoen's sexuality is going to be dealt with, it should be by conversation rather than by action. As for already knowing; yes, I'm sure most of my characters already know, but they're not telling me...

By the way, here are a couple of quotes from the first page of this discussion:

I dont feel theres really any in game text that acts as evidence for Imoens sexuality one way or the other.

Well... I remember her showing some (very minor and not necessarily serious) signs of interest/appreciation about Keldorn and Haer'Dalis.

The books, from what I've heard, are beyond hideous and completely untrue to the games (Khalid cheating on Jaheira and getting killed by CharName/Abdel comes to mind), and, accordingly, they're completely irrelevant to anything about the actual game.

I don't know about you, but I think it's funny

[discharger12]

I might have commented on this, but there is so many pages, I can't remember

Anyway, I think Imoen's bisexual. To her it seems something stupid as gender wouldn't get in the way of feelings. She see's a man/women for who they are, not for what they are. Or vice versa?

[Quitch]

That works under the assumption that you love freely and aren't a slave to genetics.

[Imrahil]

Plus, no matter how horrible the books are, it shows that Bioware/WotC/whoever is willing to have their name associated with a lesbian portrayal of Imoen.  I don't think they'd shy away from having Imoen express lesbian tendencies in the game if they wanted that to be part of her character.

I don't want to pick on you or anything, but isn't this way of thinking a bit... peculiar? Imoen was a lesbian in the novels, which means Bioware didn't object to having her portrayed as a lesbian, which means she's not a lesbian... My head spins.

My point with that was simply in reference to others saying that, even if the creators had wanted to make Imoen lesbian/bi, they wouldn't due to sales considerations. I'm not suggesting we take the books as evidence of anything (far from it) other than the fact that they were published with the Baldur's Gate logo, WotC's stamp of approval, etc. Had they wanted to portray Imoen *in the game* the same way she's portrayed in the books, it seems like that was an option they wouldn't have been forbidden from taking.

So, since it was an option available to them that they didn't take, it seems less likely that they intended for her to be lesbian/bi in the game (much like "CHARNAME sleeps with Bodhi" - an option that was apparently available that they chose not to use in the game).

- Imrahil
(let's see if it remembers I'm logged in this time)