528 replies to this topic

[Slayne]

Only thing that I believe suggests he may have is the comments Imoen makes after you initially met the Dryads.

I'll need to dig it up, but I got the impression that it was along those lines from the way she acted and the Dryads comments back at her.

Lemme see if I can go find the exact lines, its been a while.

[Slayne]

These links are via geocities, so more then likely your need to copy/paste the url's into another browser to properly see the images. Also, since I haven't replaced Photoshop on my comp, the images are saved using the default paint program on XP, which I don't know how to use, so the size may be a little large.

However, you get the basic geist of the conversation. Grant it, she doesn't openly admit it, but she doesn't refute it either. Which judging from her response, gave me the impression that Jon had indeed done something to her. In the prior conversation when you initially meet the Dryads, then mention that they were imprisioned there to instill some feelings that he used to have.


http://www.geocities...layne/imoen.JPG
http://www.geocities...ayne/imoen2.JPG


Remember that most likely your need to copy/paste the url's into a new browser since Geocities doesn't allow remote linking and I don't have a private host of my own.

[Longinus]

I think her words are too vague to come to any definite conclusions.

[Mikka]

Now that I'm thinking, I can't see him as having raped or assulted her in the dungeon. I can see him as perhaps giving her to the dreugar if he felt it might keep their loyality or be useful, but it seems unlikely that he personally would (that, in my opinion, does not make him any less the one to blame if it did happen, but I'd rather not get in to that). I can't see him having the emotion or care to do it himself.

Perhaps if he was trying to draw the Slayer out of her, he would have- but he doesn't know such a thing exists, so why would he? It would be an empty path, I think. Raping her would give him no pleasure, and it wouldn't do anything to help him in his goals.

I don't doubt that if he had a reason to, he would. If it would help hims omehow, I can't see him having anything against it. But just for the sake of doing it? I doubt it.

[Laufey]

Now that I'm thinking, I can't see him as having raped or assulted her in the dungeon. I can see him as perhaps giving her to the dreugar if he felt it might keep their loyality or be useful, but it seems unlikely that he personally would (that, in my opinion, does not make him any less the one to blame if it did happen, but I'd rather not get in to that). I can't see him having the emotion or care to do it himself.

Perhaps if he was trying to draw the Slayer out of her, he would have- but he doesn't know such a thing exists, so why would he? It would be an empty path, I think. Raping her would give him no pleasure, and it wouldn't do anything to help him in his goals.

I don't doubt that if he had a reason to, he would. If it would help hims omehow, I can't see him having anything against it. But just for the sake of doing it? I doubt it.

*nods* I agree with all of that. I personally don't think he is capable of the physical act of rape at this point. It requires strong emotions that I simply don't think he has. I also don't think it would give him any pleasure. If he thought it would gain him something he *could* have had her 'raped by proxy' so to speak, and probably would have. I don't think there's anything hinting at that though.

So...basically I think that he tortured her, physically and mentally, but not that he raped her. Of course, it can't really be proven one way or another, and no doubt that's exactly how the game designers intended it.

[Jinnai]

In the books she is gay.

As has been pointed out numerous times, the books barely follow the game and shoulddn't be used as source material.

[Quitch]

In the books she is gay.

In the books the PC is a mercenary for hire. In the books the writing is beyond poor.

These are two examples, among many, that I do not intend to follow.

[LSWSjr]

After many months in isolation in the deep outback, I have returned to present a by the general numbers solution to not only Imoen's sexuality, but the Romance/Friendship issue as well. I call it "A Tale of Six Gamers"

Once upon a year from now their were six devoted Baldur's Gate II players, to be fair let's say their characters added up to being three Male Protagonists and three Female Protagonists, they all liked modding and building upon the BGII experience. These six little games had never heard of this Forum or the Imoen Relationship Mod, or Quitch or any of the other people who helped to build this Forum. Having now received this mod the gamers happily installed it to their own personal computer, and each had their own personal relationship towards Imoen, being:

-Gamer 01: Was a Female Protagonist interested in a Romance with Imoen;
-Gamer 02: Was a Male Protagonist interested in a Romance with Imoen;
-Gamer 03: Was a Female Protagonist interested in a deep Friendship with Imoen;
-Gamer 04: Was a Male Protagonist interested in a deep Friendship with Imoen;
-Gamer 05: Was a Female Protagonist not the least bit interested at all in Imoen;
-Gamer 06: Was a Male Protagonist not the least bit interested at all in Imoen.

Now each gamer has their own computer and are isolated from each other, with each able to experience the mod without outside interference.

-Gamers 01 & 02: Were able to Romance Imoen as they wished;
-Gamers 03 & 04: Were granted a deeper relationship with Imoen they always wanted;
-Gamers 05 & 06: Found out what idiots they were for download, installing, etc, because they didn't even like Imoen in the first place.

And every one lived happily ever after.

Now in the above story only two Gamers had to worry about Imoen's sexuality, they were the ones that wanted to Romance her, and the issue of Bisexuality never came up because (without the Installation of Kelsey TOB) Imoen does not choose between two characters of any gender.
Secondly NO Gamers had to worry about the Relationship Issue, because that (as Quitch has said) was/is the original basis for the Mod and should always have been there. It should be noted though that the last two Gamers really didn't care!!!

Why can't the future of this Mod (when released) be like this, everyone (interested unlike Gamers 05 & 06) gets the Relationship part of the module and those who want to romance Imoen get their part included regardless of Gender, for as I have said before (and in some previous posts) there is no need to worry about sexual preference, if Kelsey is not installed their is no Romancing for Imoen anyway, so why the bisexuality issue. As many (including me) in the past have said there is NO evidence that she would swing any direction (excluding the Infamous "Official Novel(s)"), but based on her character, which is noted as evidence, she forms connections with those who treat her well, and her strongest bond (in most cases) is with the Protagonist, so why not have a Romance.

Although we love(d) to continue to debate about this topic, the mod users out there are not involved, so who are we to restrict their playtime, I say now to Quitch give ?em everything and what they want to use they can do naturally those that want a Romance, etc, can just progress through the Relationship part of the module, onto that pathway instead, and no one is forced to play one way or another, it?s just all in the decisions of the Protagonist and Imoen?

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications/Productions/Studios Australia returning to the Forum and for now at least signing off

P.S. Hiya to Littiz, Gospel, and the many others I missed bantering with?

[Littiz]

Hey @LSWSjr!
You were missed!

Nice points, but I don't think they're going to persuade Quitch!

[Dark-Mage]

That was a good and fair idea LSWSjr. That way everyone gets what they want.

[Quitch]

Not going to happen.

[Tancred]

I'm in a whimsical mood. Heh heh heh! *rubs hands*.

It's been often mentioned that a good choice of actress for Imoen, if ever a BG film or TV series was commissioned, would have been Allyson Hannigan, of 'Buffy' fame. The voice, the figure, and her long experience at playing the magic-using sidekick all point to a pedigree 'Imoen' actress. From consulting my sister (my only window to the world of lesbian Gay Pride), it's my understanding that Allyson had been (still is?) something of a lesbian icon.

The thought came to me - does that make it easier to imagine Imoen as gay? If she looked like, for example, Angelina Jolie, would it become easier to imagine Imoen as a vampire fetishist? If she sounded and resembled Callista Flockhart, could you more easily imagine her falling for the older married man, Keldorn (Hmm... very ungentlemanly of me. Sorry)?

Regardless, this snowballed into a thought about women stereotypes in BG. Viconia's somewhat stern, icy face and her husky tones literally scream "the bitch". Likewise, Aerie, with her wide-eyed, staring, mouth-slightly-open portrait, seems to not just play the young immature teenager but LOOK far too much like one too. There's Bodhi - the voice alone is enough to suggest she'd fit right in playing the 'evil' Bond Girl.

Regardless, my point is: Are we so used to this that we automatically assign these labels to the characters of the Forgotten Realms? Is the character and image of Imoen forever tainted by the misunderstood and blind stereotypes of our confused world? Discuss.

[Tancred]

.. and I don't think Viconia has an "icy" face at all.

No? I've always translated the expression her portrait wears as somewhat haughty; almost as if she was saying 'what, pray, are YOU looking at?'.

... but I guess that's the point, isn't it? You see what you see, and I see what I see...

[LSWSjr]

Not going to happen.

Aww, come on Quitch, don't be so mean, are you telling me you're not strong enough to handle the challenge of making something decent of this mod, something that can be enjoyed by the full span of your gaming public...  

I mean really, by saying it's "not going to happen" and work to the best of it's parameters, is like saying you're not dedicated or up to the task of making this the best Imoen Relationship module ever.  

And even though I have nothing against Lord M's current work, yours was always a sure bet on being the supreme example of any Imoen mod ever done.  

So to conclude, by saying you won't make it so accessible to all players in general, is simply implying that you lack the strength of will, time, patience and dedication to make this something that can be enjoyed by the full spectrum of BGII gamers, rather than the few whose ideas, you are willing to indulge.  

And to Tancred, I agree, that Allyson Hannigan would make the best Imoen for a live action BG movie.  B)

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions/Publications/Studios Australia, signing off  

[Tancred]

And to Tancred, I agree, that Allyson Hannigan would make the best Imoen for a live action BG movie.  B)

It was a close thing between Allyson and the younger Claire Danes, sir...

[JPS]

I mean really, by saying it's "not going to happen" and work to the best of it's parameters, is like saying you're not dedicated or up to the task of making this the best Imoen Relationship module ever. 

That's strange. I thought that by saying "not going to happen" Quitch was making an admirable display of integrity. Only shows how wrong you can be...

JPS

[Tancred]

If you walked up to, say, Constable, and complain that he never painted any proper people in his landscapes, he'd probably give you a funny look and make very strong hints for you to go away and stop bothering him. Even if you asked politely, he'd probably reply, "But I'm painting a landscape... if I have people in it, it'll become a portrait. Talk to van Gogh or Titian or someone."

You can tell him that not everyone likes or wants landscapes, too. I don't think it'd make him happy, but I don't think it'd change his mind, either.