528 replies to this topic

[Eocine]

Screw the whole petty argument, why not have Imoen as an Nth degree Narcissist, you know the type that REALLY gets of on their own image.

[Eocine]

then there are also people living in cabins in the woods hiding because they feel the government is out to get them and have devices in their homes that can read their minds if they don't wear tinfoil on their heads.

But they really are out to get me, and come on don't try and tell me my tinfoil boater isn't the epitomy of style.

[Gospel]

A poll? But then Quitch wouldn't be able to laugh at us for quibbling over something as meaningless as sexual preferance. ;)

HEY! :(

[Littiz]

humans are the only species, as far as I know, on this dirt ball that actually derive pleasure from the act, sex isn't a prerequisite for a relationship

All the species take pleasure, but doing it purposedly, avoiding procreation, is only of humans AND DOLPHINES, me thinks.
It's only a matter of intelligence

@Lucy:
there are shorter ways to call me a bigot.
You can do it, I won't hunt you down.
But you are wrong and I'll explain one more time.
I had to do it, before, no problem.

I claim, in a world in which is so easy to cry out
"racist", or "intolerant", the right to have preferences and likings.

Speaking about appearence, I prefer white women to the black ones.
Please realize that I'm speaking only about appearence here, I want a clear example.
This means only that it's more likely for me to like a white woman than a black one,
cause in average their traits are more appealing to me.
Still, you can find MANY black girls that I consider beautyful.
It's like musical, or food tastes.
We all have personal inclinations to like some things more than the rest.
But this doesn't imply judgement or else.
It's a normal thing, others prefer, again in average, black women.
I can say a statement like the one above 'cause I have a clean conscience,
for me people have all the SAME value.
That's why I can freely speak about differences, races or whatever, I give this
thing for granted in the deep of my soul. It's already there.
I don't want to hold my tongue about my preferences to show something that
I know it's there.
When people cry out how much tolerant and illuminate they are, I start suspecting
it's to clean their own conscience somehow.

On the matter of Imoen, I imagine her in my own way, and I hoped the mod
could expand on this.
I never said I despise homosexuals, I said I don't want Imoen to be a homo.
It's a different thing.
I've also said I'll play Chloe, and this is likely.
I've not my own premade concept of her, so it's fine.
It's a matter of preferences, of the way I see the Imoen's character, who's my
preferred one, so there would be no point in downloading a mod where the character
is totally different from this idea.
The evolution topic was raised to demonstrate that having no information
on her sexuality, we should go for the most common thing.
This to me would be reasonable.

To me these matters seem clear, but if you want to keep insulting me
with easy "bigot" or "racist" cries to score a fast win, keep it.
I won't lose my sleep for that.

[Eocine]

Sorry Littiz but certain chimp sub-species do have sex almost all of the time, and it's nothing to do with procreation. I also read a paper on same sex parings in the natural world (I'm a zoololgy major) and it also happens amongst Lions, Giraffes anteaters and others. Though in these cases there was disagreement, as some believed it was to establish dominance, rather than for pleasure.

Sorry Typo

[Gospel]

In history, there have always been periods of acceptance and even support of bisexuality followed by periods of persecution, followed by acceptance. Currently we're coming off a period of persecution and are in the beginning of another period of acceptance.

Acceptance? Please. More like "That's hot! Lolololololol!" <_<

[Quitch]

I wonder if Quitch could find anything useful in all of our posts...
It's obvious that different people have different opinions, so maybe a poll could have served the purpose better... ?

I care nothing for opinions, merely the thinking behind them.

[The Wise Owl]

Hey Quitch, how about pissing them all off and make hetro with AIDS.

[Gospel]

Hey Quitch, how about pissing them all off and make hetro with AIDS.

Tasteless

[Auvrin]

Hey Quitch, how about pissing them all off and make hetro with AIDS.

Is there a reason you even take the time to click the "reply" button..?

[LSWSjr]

[...] but then there are also people living in cabins in the woods hiding because they feel the government is out to get them and have devices in their homes that can read their minds if they don't wear tinfoil on their heads.

What wrong with wearing tinfoil hats and living in shacks.

The Government are everywhere even hear in Australia and they are coming for us, WE ALL MUST HIDE!!!

Karlek Johnson on behalf of LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications, Australia staying safe and signing off.

[LSWSjr]

Speaking about appearence, I prefer white women to the black ones.
Please realize that I'm speaking only about appearence here, I want a clear example.
This means only that it's more likely for me to like a white woman than a black one,
cause in average their traits are more appealing to me.
Still, you can find MANY black girls that I consider beautyful.

Can I say reacist, oh yes, yes I can.

The term from the Australian point of view is African-American, though I may be wrong, but I am definately sure the term is not BLACK WOMAN.

Karlek Johnson probably on behalf of LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications, Australia signing off.

[Littiz]

AIDS? There are temples for that.

@LSWsjr:
We in Italy use that definition without problems, maybe we're intelligent enough to see that speaking about an evident characteristic of a race is no offensive by itself.
Then your "polite" definition would miss the point, as there are also white africans.

If you think that speaking about skin color is bad, then you assume there's
something bad about skin color, then *YOU* are a racist.

Start thinking with your mind before typing.

But why do I care at all, there's no hope against stupidity

[Gospel]

Mr Racist Biggot? :angry:

Where in the world are you getting that from?

[Littiz]

@LSWsjr again:
Funny...
You are the only racist between us two, and you don't even know it

The perfect example of what "bigot" means

[serjeLeBlade]

I wonder if Quitch could find anything useful in all of our posts...
It's obvious that different people have different opinions, so maybe a poll could have served the purpose better... ?

I care nothing for opinions, merely the thinking behind them.

"Hey Quitch, how about pissing them all off and make hetro with AIDS. "

Great.... Would you call this "an opinion" or "the thinking behind it", as we are at it?

Some thinking then...
People are welcome to feel themselves offended by anything they perceive as "offending", and more than welcome to make it clear (maybe better if in a polite fashion), so that other people can (hopingly) act upon the information and avoid further offense to each other.

Only my humble opinion, obviously!

Too bad we're totally off-topic again.
Maybe we could save the day asking ourselves if Imoen likes dark-skinned humanoids (and if the term "dark elves" is offensive to the Drow...)

@Quitch: aren't you amazed about how every thread remotely concerning the topics of "Imoen" and "sex" ends up in people flaming each other?
Well... I am.

Would you please provide some help about the kind of information (or "thinking") you would find valuable?

[Mael]

How on earth did this thread go from discussing Imoen's sexual preference to racism? Why doesn't every drop the off-topic arguements and get back to arguements about Imoen's sexuality. That *is* what this thread is for.

[Littiz]

Easy explained.
I was somehow considered a biggot, so showed politely why
this is untrue, aiding me with a simple example.

Someone fell exactly in the mistake which the example itself
was meant to avoid.

This may even happen, but he also started insulting me directly.
So I had to make order in things.

[Lucythebeast]

@Lucy:
there are shorter ways to call me a bigot.
You can do it, I won't hunt you down.
But you are wrong and I'll explain one more time.
I had to do it, before, no problem.

You know I read back over my post and nowhere do I call you or anyone else a bigot by name. Reading a bit too much between the lines, I'd say. Frankly I could care less if you are a bigot, sexist, or anything else. It has no bearing here.

Now, I believe the argument that "Imoen should be heterosexual because most people are" can be tossed out as being a moot point. One could also argue that it is said that many adventurers in Faerun are homosexual or bisexual, and thus Imoen, as an adventurer, has a higher likelihood as enjoying the company of a woman at least as much as she fancies men. But that is a moot point as well. The only indications we have to guess Imoen's sexuality is her personality. And her personality isn't all that remarkably developed, given that in both BG1 and 2 they originally never intended for Imoen to be in the party for any great length of time...

So, any argument concerning her sexual preference could be plausible. The question is, other than "she SHOULD be straight" or "I think she's bi, but I don't know", what makes you feel that she is whatever sexual orientation you feel she is?

My evidence for bisexuality:
1) She's open-minded, a must for any bi
2) She's playful (not evidence in and of itself but it helps)
3) She's a mage (and a thief) so she's already not ordinary
4) She never seems to swing one way or the other, which either means she's not interested at all or she doesn't let a thing like gender bother her
5) She cares more about a person's heart than their looks
6) She has a bi feel to her, which I admit is entirely subjective. But given her personality, she doesn't seem rigid enough to me to be entirely straight or entirely lesbian. She does, however, fit the "once I love em, I never wanna leave em" personality, proven by the fact that she is unwilling to leave the PC's side unless forced to. She sticks by you even if you become an evil bastard. That's loyalty, and so I can't see her playful personality as a "love em and leave em" like a certain bard we all know...

Beyond that, there isn't really any direct evidence to prove any orientation. All I can say is, most bisexuals either A) Don't care what the gender is of the person they're with, as long as they have a good relationship or B) Just like being with everyone and anyone... more the stereotype given them by straights and gays, but they're in the minority as far as I've been able to tell. And Imoen seems to fit all the criteria for an A type bisexual. That doesn't preclude the possibility that she's open-minded but not attracted to one of the genders, but it makes it far more likely.

[Althernai]

Now, I believe the argument that "Imoen should be heterosexual because most people are" can be tossed out as being a moot point. One could also argue that it is said that many adventurers in Faerun are homosexual or bisexual, and thus Imoen, as an adventurer, has a higher likelihood as enjoying the company of a woman at least as much as she fancies men.

No, the point about her being statistically more likely to be straight is valid unless you can somehow show that being an adventurer is related to sexual orientation - it is not immediately obvious to me how. Note also that the adventurers in FR books (which I have never read) are not a statistically valid sample - just look at all the by-the-side adventurers you meet and you will understand why (i.e. Ribald, the halfling who runs the Five Flagons, etc.)

My evidence for bisexuality:
1) She's open-minded, a must for any bi
2) She's playful (not evidence in and of itself but it helps)
3) She's a mage (and a thief) so she's already not ordinary
4) She never seems to swing one way or the other, which either means she's not interested at all or she doesn't let a thing like gender bother her
5) She cares more about a person's heart than their looks

This is merely evidence for why it is possible for her to be bi, not actually anything which show her to be so.

1) A lot of people (of every gender and orientation) are open minded - and not all non-hetros are open minded in all ways

2) I do not see how this relates to orientation

3) Being an archmage or a thief is not related to orientation - a lot of people are extraordinary in one way or another, it doesn't mean they are not straight.

4) Or maybe she has not met anyone she is interested in yet - this is all pure speculation.

5) So do many other people including myself (attempt to at any rate).

6) I strongly believe she is straight - as you say, this is entirely subjective.

Your points mostly have the following spirit: "Every diameter is a chord. AB is a chord so it is probably a diameter." To which my reply is: "Every diameter is a chord, but not every chord is a diameter." In other words, she could be bi, yes, but there is reason to say she actually is.