162 replies to this topic

[Jinnai]

In reguard to #2 the enemy can go beserk when it has morale checks rather than flee.

[Talib]

I don't know if you folks are still looking at HLA's for fighter/mages or not, but I think a reasonable way to allow them to cast in heavy armor is to follow the rules G3 implemented for arcane spellcasting in armor and then add a High Level ability to reduce the casting penalty.  I'd be in favor of an ability that reduced the casting penalty by 10 or 15%, selectable 3-5 times.  That way if your F/M wants to wear full plate and use a shield he can but it'll cost him.  Even having to select the HLA 5 times to cast in full plate with a medium shield without a penalty would be worth it, although I have no idea if it can be coded.

Edited by Talib, 31 May 2005 - 06:39 PM.

[T.G.Maestro]

I don't know if you folks are still looking at HLA's for fighter/mages or not, but I think a reasonable way to allow them to cast in heavy armor is to follow the rules G3 implemented for arcane spellcasting in armor and then add a High Level ability to reduce the casting penalty. I'd be in favor of an ability that reduced the casting penalty by 10 or 15%, selectable 3-5 times.

That was the_bigg's idea as well in the "Armor Revisions" thread here in this forum.
As I said back then, a considerable idea, we might even implement it if we can reach a concensus.

[Littiz]

Not bad in itself, but it'd force to merge the two components (HLAs and Armor Revision).
Personally I'd prefer to keep them separated (debatable, anyway).

Edited by Littiz, 02 June 2005 - 01:29 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

(HLAs and Armor Revision).
Personally I'd prefer to keep them separated

And I support your opinion, those two shouldn't be merged.

[the bigg]

They can interact, though

[T.G.Maestro]

If it is doable seemlessly that this HLA only appears in the tables if one has the Armor Revisions component installed, and does so without causing any inconsistencies or bugs, so be it...

[Littiz]

The tables are fixed, so you should change (and re-balance) them at installation time, and the result would be less flexibility in any case.
I'm not sure it'd be worth the trouble...

[T.G.Maestro]

Again, since I cannot find a working way to do this, it is up to you two to decide the fate of this addon - if you think it can be done, and it is worth it, I can accept it and would be glad to help in it's creation.
After we discussed it's balancing. Remember, with the new armor system, highly enchanted heavy armors can get real tough - I'm not sure we want them to become even more powerful with this ability.

[NiGHTMARE]

If it is doable seemlessly that this HLA only appears in the tables if one has the Armor Revisions component installed, and does so without causing any inconsistencies or bugs, so be it...

Easy: just include file checks in whichever component is later in the component order. If a file from the earlier component isn't found, the relevant HLAs don't get added.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 02 June 2005 - 09:35 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

Thanks for the tip NiGHTMARE!

[Littiz]

The problem is in balance. I mean, that table would vary from case to case.
Ok, the tables cannot be truly balanced already, but this is blatant...
Of course, we might just not care

[NiGHTMARE]

BTW if you do implement this HLA, perhaps bards could get it as well? I'd suggest that fighter/mages be able to select it more times than bards, though.

[T.G.Maestro]

BTW if you do implement this HLA, perhaps bards could get it as well? I'd suggest that fighter/mages be able to select it more times than bards, though.

Yes, probably. Though I think bards aren't known from their tendency to wear heavier armor (even if the UAI HLA allows to them to do so). 1 pick of it wouldn't hurt though.
Either way, once the Armor System is coded, we should return to this idea and see if we can put it into shape.

[SimDing0]

If it is doable seemlessly that this HLA only appears in the tables if one has the Armor Revisions component installed, and does so without causing any inconsistencies or bugs, so be it...

Easy: just include file checks in whichever component is later in the component order. If a file from the earlier component isn't found, the relevant HLAs don't get added.

Ghrey once told me that in some situations, components aren't installed in the order they appear in the TP2-- if you install the lower one, then re-run the installer and pick the earlier one too.

[the bigg]

Well, we can do like this - if AR is installed then HLA revision will copy different tables, while AR will add interactively to certain tables a new line - wether HLA is installed or not.

[T.G.Maestro]

Well, we can do like this - if AR is installed then HLA revision will copy different tables, while AR will add interactively to certain tables a new line - wether HLA is installed or not.

Hmm, this sounds acceptable and good enough to work.

BTW, how should we create the HLA itself?

My suggestion would be a possive ability that can be selected multiple times, depending on your class/kit. Each pick would reduce the penalties from wearing heavier armors. For example reduce DEX penalty by 1, and movement penalty by 5%. In addition each pick would reduce the chance of spellcasting failure too.

How on earth all this could be implemented is beyond me though. Mostly because I don't know how this could be restricted to those cases where the character suffers these penalties, and remove it's effects when the character drops the armor. In other words, it would be most unfortunate if a fighter with multiple picks of this ability would actually receive BONUSES to his movement rate while fighting unarmored...

[NiGHTMARE]

Ghrey once told me that in some situations, components aren't installed in the order they appear in the TP2-- if you install the lower one, then re-run the installer and pick the earlier one too.

I thought that if you re-ran the installed and installed an earlier component than those which you'd installed previously, the later components got uninstalled and then re-installed...

[the bigg]

Ghrey once told me that in some situations, components aren't installed in the order they appear in the TP2-- if you install the lower one, then re-run the installer and pick the earlier one too.

I thought that if you re-ran the installed and installed an earlier component than those which you'd installed previously, the later components got uninstalled and then re-installed...

Nuh, this doesn't happen to allow for some "install A, then B, then A" situations - something which Refinements + G3tweaks already have :closedeyes:
Regarding implementation I have an idea which involves multiple EFF bouncing

[T.G.Maestro]

I'm still waiting for some answers for this question:

I don't know how this could be restricted to those cases where the character suffers these penalties, and remove it's effects when the character drops the armor. In other words, it would be most unfortunate if a fighter with multiple picks of this ability would actually receive BONUSES to his movement rate while fighting unarmored...