162 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

Thanks for the idea, but I'm sure you noticed that you replied to a nearly one year old post..?
We already finished the Mage tables, and they are unlikely to be changed until we start adding TDs.
The same goes for Bounty Hunters.

[LarryTheArcher]

Call of the Conjurer
With this spell, the Conjurer casts out a magical portal that sucks out 1D6 creatures, each one from the Elemental Planes of Fire, Earth, Air, as well as the Negative Material Plane, The 9 Hells and the Celestial Planes. It calls down one random being of a pool of level 15+ creatures from that plane, ranging from Vampires, to Tanar'ri, to Greater Fire Elementals, to a Solar. The Level of the creatures summoned will match the level of the caster, and any demons summoned will not attack the user or the users party.

Summoning even a Solar is too much in my opinion.

The spell tailors the power of the creature to the level of the caster

[LarryTheArcher]

Thanks for the idea, but I'm sure you noticed that you replied to a nearly one year old post..?
We already finished the Mage tables, and they are unlikely to be changed until we start adding TDs.
The same goes for Bounty Hunters.

I know, it was just a sugestion

[T.G.Maestro]

A few ideas, based on (NWN) feats:

Arcane Defense: this passive innate for mages grants an extra +4 points bonus permanently to saves vs. one of the save-types (death, spell, wands, etc.) of choice.

Cleave: the original pnp Cleave is not implementable in the IE engine, but I have a possibly useable alternative. It would be a non-passive HLA (like Smite for example), and would add an invisible "splash-effect" to the character's melee hits. This means that every time the character hits a target, those around it in a 8-10' radius area would suffer some portion of that damage (or a set amount of physical damage). This would represent that the power of the blow is enough to hurt multiple opponents at the same time by cutting through the main target and reaching the others around it. This ability would grant some extra melee bonuses vs. the main target (for example some damage bonus), but would reduce THACO by a fixed number (maybe 3?).

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 29 November 2004 - 09:23 AM.

[Jinnai]

A few ideas, based on (NWN) feats:

Arcane Defense: this passive innate for mages grants an extra +4 points bonus permanently to saves vs. one of the save-types (death, spell, wands, etc.) of choice.

This is either a very weak or very powerful HLA. If you limit it to 1 or 2...maybe even 3 its weak...if you don't limit it, they can take it to get butloads of HP and so low of scores even penalties to saving throws won't matter except for botches...and they'd still have room for other abilities as well.

For a feat its okay because if taken, its usually done early on, but otherwise its not so useful.

[fallen_demon]

Cleave: the original pnp Cleave is not implementable in the IE engine, but I have a possibly useable alternative. It would be a non-passive HLA (like Smite for example), and would add an invisible "splash-effect" to the character's melee hits. This means that every time the character hits a target, those around it in a 8-10' radius area would suffer some portion of that damage (or a set amount of physical damage). This would represent that the power of the blow is enough to hurt multiple opponents at the same time by cutting through the main target and reaching the others around it. This ability would grant some extra melee bonuses vs. the main target (for example some damage bonus), but would reduce THACO by a fixed number (maybe 3?).

imo this wouldn't be too powerful w/o the penalty.

[T.G.Maestro]

About Cleave: do you find this kind of implemetation fitting for this ability? (I mean the "splash-effect"?)

[Jinnai]

About Cleave: do you find this kind of implemetation fitting for this ability? (I mean the "splash-effect"?)

If you can make the effect only work if you kill or knock out the main enemy

Edited by Jinnai, 30 November 2004 - 06:11 PM.

[T.G.Maestro]

Which is completeky impossible, so I take the answer is no.

[Jinnai]

Correct. Cleave was meant to be done only when you finished with one opponent to go so seemlessly on to the next, basically to represent how you could "cleave" through a bunch of enemies all at once.

What your describing would be more like melee force wave which means your attack is so powerful the force can be felt even when your not hit. The big differance though is that a force wave need not hit a creature, merely a point, including in midair.

Edited by Jinnai, 01 December 2004 - 11:16 AM.

[LarryTheArcher]

I would think that last version you said about swinging so strong you could feel it without getting hit would require a massive strength requirement.

[Jinnai]

I would think that last version you said about swinging so strong you could feel it without getting hit would require a massive strength requirement.

No. I have had it done to me in my martial arts classes. If it would be assigned to any physical ability it would be dexterity, but intelligence and wisdom are would be more important.

In order of importance:

Dexterity for the speed needed to execute the wave.

Widsom to represent the transfer of your spirit or energy to make it happen.

Intelligence to know how to use the attack.


If your talking more about a impact wave, then yes strength is required, but so to is dexterity to represent the speed needed.

But in either case, that is nothing like cleave.

[maximize]

About Cleave: do you find this kind of implemetation fitting for this ability? (I mean the "splash-effect"?)

If you can make the effect only work if you kill or knock out the main enemy

Yeah, it would only really make sense if you were able to knock out/ knock back/ kill the main enemy and then the damage would be done to surrounding enemies. And if it was the "kill the main enemy first" thing it would only really make sense for large slashing weapons (i.e, halberds, two handed swords, bastard swords, etc.), whereas if it were the "kock back/ knock out the main enemy" thing, it would only make sense for blunt weapons. I would like Cleave, but it just wouldn't make sense without something like that. *sigh*

[T.G.Maestro]

Yep, idea dropped then.

[Littiz]

I think I may have the solution for 2 abilities that were giving us trouble.
Union, as proposed by TGM, didn?t make me happy, to be honest. Cleric mages don?t need MORE spells, and an increase in casting time speed creates too many problems, as we all know.
Also, the two kinds of magic are inherently different, have different restrictions and sources, so I don?t fully agree with the concept.
So I propose an ability that would be truly unique, for this class: an Enhanced Dispel Magic, cast maybe at the equivalent of 20-25th level, with wide area effect and the additional bonus of NOT affecting party members. Maybe combined with a True Sight effect. This should open new strategical situations.
I?d move the casting time speed increase to an ability for Fighter/Clerics (?Combat Blessings? or a similar name): they can learn to effectively merge the two fields (combat and praying) and ?adapt the prayers? to a faster in-battle casting. This wouldn?t be as much as dangerous (no Vecna robe, plus clerical spells have long casting times) and would be fitting.

If these are fine for you, I?ll create them in the week-end (or somewhen else ).
See, I ask before working

EDIT: Argh, long time no play, you see...
I forgot about remove magic
Well, feel free to elaborate on the ideas though...

Edited by Littiz, 13 January 2005 - 02:08 AM.

[the bigg]

So I propose an ability that would be truly unique, for this class: an Enhanced Dispel Magic, cast maybe at the equivalent of 20-25th level, with wide area effect and the additional bonus of NOT affecting party members. Maybe combined with a True Sight effect. This should open new strategical situations.

EDIT: Argh, long time no play, you see...
I forgot about remove magic
Well, feel free to elaborate on the ideas though...

You can make a dispel unfailable though. Not sure about the details, try asking Carsomyr .
EDIT: I actually asked IESDP, and...

#58 (0x3a) Cure: Dispellable Effects (Dispel Magic) [58]
    Parameter #1: Level
    Parameter #2: Type
    Description:
    Dispels magic from the targetted creature(s) (excepting magical
    weapons eg. Spirtual Hammer). Depending on the value of
    the 'Type' field, the 'Level' field can use dused to set
    the level of the effect.
 
    Known values for 'Type' are:
    0  Always dispel
    1  Use Caster Level
    2  USe 'Level' field
 
    With 'Type' of 1 or 2, the base chance of successfully dispelling
    is 50%. This chance is modified by the relative levels of
    the dispeller to the caster. Each level below gives a -10%
    chance, each level above gives a +5% chance. There is always
    a 1% chance of success or failure.

@ F/Cs: that's quite nice

Edited by the bigg, 13 January 2005 - 03:38 AM.

[Jinnai]

I think I may have the solution for 2 abilities that were giving us trouble.
Union, as proposed by TGM, didn?t make me happy, to be honest. Cleric mages don?t need MORE spells, and an increase in casting time speed creates too many problems, as we all know.
Also, the two kinds of magic are inherently different, have different restrictions and sources, so I don?t fully agree with the concept.
So I propose an ability that would be truly unique, for this class: an Enhanced Dispel Magic, cast maybe at the equivalent of 20-25th level, with wide area effect and the additional bonus of NOT affecting party members. Maybe combined with a True Sight effect. This should open new strategical situations.
I?d move the casting time speed increase to an ability for Fighter/Clerics (?Combat Blessings? or a similar name): they can learn to effectively merge the two fields (combat and praying) and ?adapt the prayers? to a faster in-battle casting. This wouldn?t be as much as dangerous (no Vecna robe, plus clerical spells have long casting times) and would be fitting.

If these are fine for you, I?ll create them in the week-end (or somewhen else ).
See, I ask before working  

EDIT: Argh, long time no play, you see...
I forgot about remove magic
Well, feel free to elaborate on the ideas though...

Well the spell speed increase i don't like because its not really focused on what a fighter would be able to do. I think better would be something like an inate ability to make your weapon magical for every 5 levels, up to level 5, whatever it is.

As to the mage/cleic one...the best thing would to chose to move some of your cleric spell slots over to the mage as you get 9 per level as a cleric and 5 per level (6 if specialized) as a mage. So like an ability to move 1 spell/level from 1-7 cleric to 1-7 wizard permenatly.

[the bigg]

Well the spell speed increase i don't like because its not really focused on what a fighter would be able to do. I think better would be something like an inate ability to make your weapon magical for every 5 levels, up to level 5, whatever it is.

As to the mage/cleic one...the best thing would to chose to move some of your cleric spell slots over to the mage as you get 9 per level as a cleric and 5 per level (6 if specialized) as a mage. So like an ability to move 1 spell/level from 1-7 cleric to 1-7 wizard permenatly.

1st one: undoable. A pair of TDD Druid Spells (D1 Magic Fang and D3 Greater Magic Fang) claim to do that, but they actually only increase weapon damage by +x. They even forgot to increase Thac0 by the same amount, not to mention the "enchantment" level (AKA it allows to hit Demiliches).
Finally, a semi-obvious question: WTH a HLA guy needs to use an HLA to increment the magical level of his weapon, when he's playing around with Crom Fayer +5 and Flail Of Ages +3 (or, even better, one of Item Upgrade +5 Clubs)???

2nd one: this is rather tricky, since you cannot take it until you have 2 spells at C7, otherwise the -1 won't apply, so you have to carefully set the min level value. Moreover, if an HLA takes away something, it better do that only if it's an activable one, not a permanent one (say, this time you wanted 2 level 7 spells? tough luck).

warning, powergamer rant above!
Also contains detailed analysis on balance of M/C proposal, starting from the presumption that non-balance means that #Wx > #Cx.
A M/C gets HLAS when he transitions from M13/C14 to M14/C14 AKA 3,000,000; he can safely pick up this HLA (AKA has 2 cleric slots at C7) when he is M15/C17, AKA 4,050,000. Quite a wait . To get as much as 3-1=2 spells at C7 he needs to be a W18/C22 at 6,300,000 XP; the wizard already has 3+1=4 W7 spells, and there's the Bonus Spells HLA and the RIng to take in consideration, for a total of 6 W7 spells.
Note that this argument applies only to the seventh level of spells, so I believe it's somewhat better to leave out of the equation only the 7th level. The 6th level gets to balance himself (meaning #C6 >= #W6) at W17/C20, AKA 5,400,000 XP.
You can see the attachment for a chart of the spells, relative to levels (ordered by XP, mind you )from getting the first HLA up to 11,000,000 XP. The W still has more 7 spell slot, compared to the Cleric. (spells are given before picking the HLA)

[Littiz]

[the bigg]

I was bored, you know
(I assume you DL'd the file, didn't you?)
Now, IF only XPLEVEL.2DA was ordered the other way around (levels increase going down, classes are listed left to right) I'd have done that much faster