26 replies to this topic

[Longinus]

Why would anyone want to romance the arrogant, self-centred, scheming; devious, and thoroughly, not to mention, irredeemably evil joke of a conjuror that is Edwin, especially when Baldur's Gate 2 has such a wide selection of lovely ladies waiting to be the object of your desire?

Ok, I'm writing in jest, but Edwin really is beyond anything that might vaguely resemble redemption, and the only person he's capable of loving is himself. As an evil wizard, Edwin's fate was set in stone, and as a good aligned character, purging such a potentially powerful evil wizard from existence doesn't seem like a bad idea. In short, what in the world do you see in him? How can any change to his original character be justified?

Thanks.

[Merja]

Why would anyone want to romance the arrogant, self-centred, scheming; devious, and thoroughly, not to mention, irredeemably evil joke of a conjuror that is Edwin, especially when Baldur's Gate 2 has such a wide selection of lovely ladies waiting to be the object of your desire?

Ok, I'm writing in jest, but Edwin really is beyond anything that might vaguely resemble redemption, and the only person he's capable of loving is himself. As an evil wizard, Edwin's fate was set in stone, and as a good aligned character, purging such a potentially powerful evil wizard from existence doesn't seem like a bad idea. In short, what in the world do you see in him? How can any change to his original character be justified?

Thanks.

He is cute and funny as hell. He has a superb voice and some of the most challenging remarks in the game.

I for one find self-centered men are the best kind, since they leave you alone and to you own designs most of the time, I like arrogant men because they stroke their own ego and you don't have to stroke it for them.

And add to all that that there are three neutral alignaments and three evil alignaments from the player to choose between, which reflects that some people won't actually want to be the good guy smiting evil wizards (heck, some might even play as the evil wizards) I think you can lay your concerns safely to rest.

Bye.

[Laufey]

Why would anyone want to romance the arrogant, self-centred, scheming; devious, and thoroughly, not to mention, irredeemably evil joke of a conjuror that is Edwin, especially when Baldur's Gate 2 has such a wide selection of lovely ladies waiting to be the object of your desire?

Ok, I'm writing in jest, but Edwin really is beyond anything that might vaguely resemble redemption, and the only person he's capable of loving is himself. As an evil wizard, Edwin's fate was set in stone, and as a good aligned character, purging such a potentially powerful evil wizard from existence doesn't seem like a bad idea. In short, what in the world do you see in him? How can any change to his original character be justified?

Thanks.

Hm...tastes differ, you know. Obviously my take on the character is different from yours, and I consider the way I've written him to be well in line with the original NPC, not that I think I need to justify myself. To see whether you agree or not, you'll just have to play the mod when it's done.

Oh...and he's majorly cute.

Edited: The reason why I don't care much for 'arguing' my take on the character is this:

Either you are 100% against the very concept of this mod, namely that Edwin *is* capable of loving (Granted only under very rare and special circumstances) and in that case nothing I say will convince you, nor are you likely to want to play it in the first place.

On the other hand, it may be that arguments may convince you to change your opinion, but in that case the mod in itself is the best argument. If my extemded version of Edwin doesn't convince you, then a brief summary of my opinions definitely won't.

[kashmir]

This might sound a bit..lame...but I think everyone(even 'evil', arrogant wizards) are capable of loving someone. Love can change everything , right?

At first I thought Edwin's only possible romance could be with an evil mage...or in general someone evil with a high Int. After I read In the Cards (great work by the way) I was proved terribly wrong. I always thought Eddie was awesome but I figured no one was going to write a romance for him. It seems anything can happen when several billion people have computers.

I'd go on for hours praising Laufey on her amazing novel right now...but it's been done, so all I can say is...the chapter about 'Koveras' had me laughing so hard I cried. Anyone that has ever played Baldur's Gate needs to read at LEAST that chapter...it was hilarous beyond all words. And you portaryed all the character very well; not an easy thing to do either.
Phew...ok, you deserved that.

[Lord E]

Why would anyone want to romance the arrogant, self-centred, scheming; devious, and thoroughly, not to mention, irredeemably evil joke of a conjuror that is Edwin, especially when Baldur's Gate 2 has such a wide selection of lovely ladies waiting to be the object of your desire?

Ok, I'm writing in jest, but Edwin really is beyond anything that might vaguely resemble redemption, and the only person he's capable of loving is himself. As an evil wizard, Edwin's fate was set in stone, and as a good aligned character, purging such a potentially powerful evil wizard from existence doesn't seem like a bad idea. In short, what in the world do you see in him? How can any change to his original character be justified?

Thanks.

He's intelligent, funny and has a killer voice.

Not only 'good' people are loved or capable of love (the loving father mob boss being the classic example), and I don't give a shit about alignment anyway. Since I am forced to choose one, I usually take neutral or CG, as for NPCs it is absolutely meaningless piece of 'information' as far as I am concerned.

I also don't see Edwin as demonic as you do, and there are even some paladin gals in the audience who want to romance him *without* redeeming him. They don't have to justify this to anyone.

If you really want to know, read Laufey's In the Chards - there you see how he is portrayed in the mod as well (not to mention that it is an awesome read). I for one agree with her interpretation of the character.

[Laufey]

This might sound a bit..lame...but I think everyone(even 'evil', arrogant wizards) are capable of loving someone. Love can change everything , right?

At first I thought Edwin's only possible romance could be with an evil mage...or in general someone evil with a high Int. After I read In the Cards (great work by the way) I was proved terribly wrong. I always thought Eddie was awesome but I figured no one was going to write a romance for him. It seems anything can happen when several billion people have computers.

I'd go on for hours praising Laufey on her amazing novel right now...but it's been done, so all I can say is...the chapter about 'Koveras' had me laughing so hard I cried. Anyone that has ever played Baldur's Gate needs to read at LEAST that chapter...it was hilarous beyond all words. And you portaryed all the character very well; not an easy thing to do either.
Phew...ok, you deserved that.

Hey, thanks for the kind words! Very happy to hear that you like my writing, and I hope you will like the mod as well. (About 75% done now.)

[Laufey]

Why would anyone want to romance the arrogant, self-centred, scheming; devious, and thoroughly, not to mention, irredeemably evil joke of a conjuror that is Edwin, especially when Baldur's Gate 2 has such a wide selection of lovely ladies waiting to be the object of your desire?

Ok, I'm writing in jest, but Edwin really is beyond anything that might vaguely resemble redemption, and the only person he's capable of loving is himself. As an evil wizard, Edwin's fate was set in stone, and as a good aligned character, purging such a potentially powerful evil wizard from existence doesn't seem like a bad idea. In short, what in the world do you see in him? How can any change to his original character be justified?

Thanks.

He's intelligent, funny and has a killer voice.

Not only 'good' people are loved or capable of love (the loving father mob boss being the classic example), and I don't give a shit about alignment anyway. Since I am forced to choose one, I usually take neutral or CG, as for NPCs it is absolutely meaningless piece of 'information' as far as I am concerned.

I also don't see Edwin as demonic as you do, and there are even some paladin gals in the audience who want to romance him *without* redeeming him. They don't have to justify this to anyone.

If you really want to know, read Laufey's In the Chards - there you see how he is portrayed in the mod as well (not to mention that it is an awesome read). I for one agree with her interpretation of the character.

Oh yes, that voice... And yes, there are lady PC:s from every profession and alignment ready to get enamoured with the RW. (Boy, would he ever get smug about that if he were real!)

[Laufey]

In truth, every BG2 NPC should be romance enabled, just for a different PC and for different kind of a "romance".

I would really have liked that myself! And not just the more 'obvious' ones either - a Jan romance could be *really* fun I think.

[Ancient Slayer]

Why would anyone want to romance the arrogant, self-centred, scheming; devious, and thoroughly, not to mention, irredeemably evil joke of a conjuror that is Edwin, especially when Baldur's Gate 2 has such a wide selection of lovely ladies waiting to be the object of your desire?

Ok, I'm writing in jest, but Edwin really is beyond anything that might vaguely resemble redemption, and the only person he's capable of loving is himself. As an evil wizard, Edwin's fate was set in stone, and as a good aligned character, purging such a potentially powerful evil wizard from existence doesn't seem like a bad idea. In short, what in the world do you see in him? How can any change to his original character be justified?

Thanks.

After having played through the beta a few times all I can say is the authors of this Mod have gone a long way to keep true to the basic nature of Edwin & expanded on the same believably in fact IMO they have done a darn good job at it (till where it's at).

[Laufey]

After having played through the beta a few times all I can say is the authors of this Mod have gone a long way to keep true to the basic nature of Edwin & expanded on the same believably in fact IMO they have done a darn good job at it (till where it's at).

Thank you, Slayer! I have certainly tried my best when writing Edwin to expand on him and yet keep him recognizable, and I'm glad you think I've succeeded so far.

[Ancient Slayer]

Thank you, Slayer! I have certainly tried my best when writing Edwin to expand on him and yet keep him recognizable, and I'm glad you think I've succeeded so far.

No Problem Laufey, Just saying what I feel.
My Wife wants me to add that how can you not like Edwin He's funny, cute and has tons of personality. He is Evil but that doesn't stop him from falling in Love does it (Viconia is evil, if you can romance her then why not Edwin).

[Laufey]

Thank you, Slayer! I have certainly tried my best when writing Edwin to expand on him and yet keep him recognizable, and I'm glad you think I've succeeded so far.

No Problem Laufey, Just saying what I feel.
My Wife wants me to add that how can you not like Edwin He's funny, cute and has tons of personality. He is Evil but that doesn't stop him from falling in Love does it (Viconia is evil, if you can romance her then why not Edwin).

Tell your wife that I agree with her. Edwin is *very* cute. Agree about Viconia as well. Bioware has Officially Sanctioned that an Evil Aligned NPC can fall in love. (Not that I would particularly care if they hadn't, but it does strengthen my own opinon.)

[Laufey]

When I imagined an Edwin-Romance I always thought of sleeping with him first an fall in love later (well, it's an obvious way, considering his normal behaviour, isn't it? ) but after reading "In the Cards", I suspect it'll go the other way 'round.

Anyway, I'm desperately looking forward for the Mod. I adored him from the very first second.

Thanks for the kind words! I certainly hope you will enjoy the mod when it's done.

[Chalyanki]

Edwin used to piss me off greatly in BG I ("Stop, go no further; I require the services of your group ((ah yes, they will do nicely))."). However, aside from Minsc, he's my favorite male NPC in BG II. Actually, that's still kind of a toss-up...

In any event, I expect great things to come from this mod! Not only is Edwin a great quirky character, he's evil, which makes the writing a little more challenging, in my opinion, and I'm really looking forward to this. Who says evil can't love?

[Laufey]

Edwin used to piss me off greatly in BG I ("Stop, go no further; I require the services of your group ((ah yes, they will do nicely))."). However, aside from Minsc, he's my favorite male NPC in BG II. Actually, that's still kind of a toss-up...

In any event, I expect great things to come from this mod! Not only is Edwin a great quirky character, he's evil, which makes the writing a little more challenging, in my opinion, and I'm really looking forward to this. Who says evil can't love?

Always nice to encounter another Edwin fan. I hope you will indeed like the mod when it is done.

[Longinus]

Erm...if I understood correctly you meant to say: "Why a female PC would want to romance Edwin if she can hack the game and enjoy romances writen for a male PC instead?" 

Exactly.

I noticed that many female players tend to romance female NPCs, which made me curious as to why. I remember Miss Kitty at the Interplay boards complaining about the lack of romances for heterosexual female players, then it occured to me that there's no demand! B) Perhaps I was wrong. But then, who could resist romancing Viconia?

Edited by Longinus, 18 July 2004 - 05:00 PM.

[Longinus]

You know Laufey, it always annoyed me that the best mage in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 was evil. His nature was the price players had to pay for his "peerless skills".

So, does he even have the slightest chance of redeeming himself, or is there something attractive about calculated, evil men? Maybe becoming good or neutral would change him into someone who no longer possesses whatever made him so charming in the first place. His personality would be lost in the transition (so to speak).

[dorotea]

Exactly. 

I noticed that many female players tend to romance female NPCs, which made me curious as to why. I remember Miss Kitty at the Interplay boards complaining about the lack of heterosexual female romances, then it occured to me that there's no demand!  Perhaps I was wrong. But then, who could resist romancing Viconia?

Lol! I sure can. Sorry to dissappoint - but I could never ever even pretend to play a female-female romance. Not that I object, mind it. I find it fascinating to read about and very very romantic. But to make a PC for this kind of a romance... It is just ... how should I put it - not enticing for me as it will completely lack an ooomph factor even in my imagination. Even with Vic. I adore her, but I would rather be friends with her - a heck less of complications.

So - yeah, there is not enough male romances, and the ones that exist do not satisfy me as player. Either too 'sweet' or too 'unimaginative' or not 'enticing' (as in lack humor and zest), or just plain boring.

So, does he even have the slightest chance of redeeming himself, or is there something attractive about calculated, evil men? Maybe becoming good or neutral would change him into someone who no longer possesses whatever made him so charming in the first place. His personality would be lost in the transition (so to speak).

Mind it - I am involved with this romance , of course, and as such I cannot be objective. But from what I saw written and how the plot is build - Edwin remains Edwin, as in: self-centered, boastful, vain, extremely clever, humorous, talkative and - from many female POV - completely adorable.

As for 'calculated evil', hmm, I never found Edwin calculated evil - rather a very very shy of showing any 'sensitive spots', and very good at pretending to be 'evil'. So good, he can actually fool many. But then - I don't believe people can be actually separated by 'alignment' system , even using as 'many' as whole 7 different combination!

For consolation of 'black and white' minded individuals - there will be a possibility for Edwin to switch alignment, but I personally think it is not that important. More important is the fact that he gets to keep his personality.

PS

I am only going into this long-winded rant mode because I saw your other posts and I dont consider you a 'troll' - I think you are honestly curious and just wanted a good discussion - right? Please prove that it is so, by accepting that diversity of mods and opinions in this forum is something to be proud about, not to regret.

Best wishes,

Dorotea