25 replies to this topic

[Magus]

No offense intended or anything. I was just excited about the update and didn't want it to disappear without actual player feedback like the macOS version of BGT We're on a roll right now: staff members are active and several modders are working on classic mods that haven't been updated for over seven years. This productive phase will go away eventually and before that happens (and I say goodbye to the community), I'd really like to see the main mods offering a faithful alternative to the EEs updated with staff-approved releases on the forum downloads and the official GitHub. So, now is the best chance for TobEx download page to get updated to v28; we need to convince the staff that the fixes are valid.

 

Looking at the commits, compiling must have been a pain (241 files changes just for the workflows compiler to work, only 1 file with the actual fixes).

t

Correct me if my understanding is wrong: the excessive saving throw messages were caused by incorrect type conditions and missing checks if the save has already been made, ie bSavedVsType returned true five times in a row (because there are five types of saving throws). Ascension64 didn't fix the magic resistance messages, but it looks like you've figured it out on your own: an incorrect variable was used in the condition (cRollMagicResist instead of rollMagicResist) which caused it to continue through each effect.

None taken, and your understanding is right. If any issues should arise, I'd expect it from internal changes (libs, VS version), rather than actual code changes.

 

Overall, my feeling is that Tobex has taken somewhat wrong turn in development, as Ascension64 got bogged down with implementing the requests directly, rather than exposing capabilities to modders to work with. EEEx with its LUA scripting seems to get this right. If Tobex was to be expanded, I think that would be the way to go.

[ALIEN]

A new ToBEx release in 2020? Much appreciated, thanks 

[Magus]

Apparently, Bubb and fearless work/worked on an extender that (I think) has LUA capabilites and even supports more games. Code is availble for the loader, but not actual extender, for some reason.

Whoever's in touch with them, could try and get more details about that. It might be the holy grail everyone here is asking for.

Edited by Magus, 17 September 2020 - 03:56 AM.

[The Imp]

That was 12 months ago. After which he re-worked on the EEex which works, and well in the EE games, but only in them. Also, the EEex does a thing the ToBEx didn't, that is, it uses it's own .exe to start the game. If you know things about this, one of those was that people didn't really appreciate that well in the past, as it comes with it's own connotations, such as piracy.

[Azazello]

Magus, several feedback my direct opinions... [sorry, long post, too much free time at work]
 
First-- like others have said, thank you very much for your contributions: updating TobEx and expanding the knowledge-base on it and the original BG2 engine. You discovered solutions to problems that have haunted the community for years -- and those that have as-much or more technical knowledge of the code truly understand the work you had to put into this. You're gonna get alot of praise for your efforts, and rightfully so.
 

2nd-- I agreed with skellytz's initial reaction: I do not trust unknown users - e.g. ones who seem to come out of the blue, or don't have alot of exposure in the community - claiming to fix/improve/expand/rebalance ...well, anything about the game. The skepticism is not personally directed to you; but due to several things--

• a spinoff BG community in which their modders & users take the content, mods & other contribs from the main community and claim to improve things without acknowledging or asking permission from the original authors to use or modify their work. And don't even do the bare minimum of notifying the original authors via established forums.
• the very real danger of relying on Github as the new content repository for mods-- almost any modding work there can be forked, and the fork owner can say nothing (or 'fuck you') about the original creator and his/her content.
• not least, security worries of using an undocumented or purposely poorly/incorrectly documented dlls or executables, from github or anywhere else - especially worse from someone's private forum.

 
Now, just like skellytz, I'm willing and happy to be more open to your efforts, now that you've finally shared them in the official forum, and enlightened us on how you got your results.
 
 
3rd-- You've been much too timid about your work.
(This may seem overly critical, but stick with me, it's for all our benefits)
 
I first discovered you as a modder via your taking over maintenance of Wild Mage Additions.
A deep favorite mod of mine.
 
It's not a fork. And I hadn't heard anything about you or your updates (at that time - a year ago?) on any other forum.
 
Then I found your TobEx fork.
You didn't just suddenly fix this--you've been working on it for...months? years?
 
Then I found your not-fork of 'Unique Artifacts'.
 
On your git pages, none of any of those have your point-blank statement of either [1] "I'm officially the new maintainer - Hi!" or [2] "hey y'all, I'm making my own personal revisions to these mods, I'm not connected to the original or current owners at all."
 
Sorry, to me, you seemed like someone taking mods and doing whatever you wanted with them--and not telling anyone, especially not the originators. Fair enough... We can all do that, there're no mod laws or police preventing people from making their own mods of mods.
 
But by doing this, you can understand the concerns I described above, yes/no?
 
So I avoided ever mentioning your work to anyone, anywhere.

(Except to our two loveable curmudgeons here on SHS, re: the Wild Mage Additions thread)
 
So, what's the point to all this?
 
 
4rd-- It's all good now, because you've finally 'introduced' yourself to the community, and we welcome you!
 
And, you are now officially A Modder! (whether you want to or think so or not!)
 
 
With Great Modding Comes Great Responsibility...
 
Now that you've proven you got mad modding skillz, you're gonna get hit by all kinds of requests from users and other modders. Are you ready?!

• Time to go to the 'Unique Artifacts' thread and announce your work. Believe me, people will luv you for it.

• There's no official forum for JOG's mod; he made several threads though. So maybe say hello, introduce your updates, on some of the other BG forums.

• Please update your GH READMEs so that it's clear what your connection with the mods are. Like I said earlier, many of us are concerned about people taking others' stuff and claiming it as their own. You're not doing that!, but it would be helpful to know how you want to be perceived in terms of the mods.

• umm, er... be sure you haven't said that you have official confirmation from the original creator to work on a mod--when you really don't. I'ld hate to see a dra-medy where you'ld have to backpedal on such a claim.

• Don't be shy about your own content -- put in your signature your own forums. Hey, I'll join!
• Personal request-- please change the Title of this thread to something more...bold! Like, 'A New Life for TobEx'

• Get out there and join us in other forums! You're part of the BG family now. We always need new blood in the community. (especially those supporting Classic BG)

 
Finally, I can't leave without doing this...

Jarno is right

David, as I live&breath, never thought I'ld see you say that!
 
{friendly ribbing, my friend - you knew someone would eventually point that out }

                       

[Magus]

OK, this is mostly offtopic, but anyway...

 

the very real danger of relying on Github as the new content repository for mods-- almost any modding work there can be forked, and the fork owner can say nothing (or 'fuck you') about the original creator and his/her content.

An elderly lady stood back of the counter. Pippi went right up to her. "No!" she said decidedly.
"What is it you want?" asked the lady.
"No," said Pippi once more.
"I don"t understand what you mean," said the lady.
"No, I don't suffer from freckles," said Pippi.
Then the lady understood, but she took one look at Pippi and burst out, "But, my dear child, your whole face is covered with freckles!"
"I know that," said Pippi, "but I don't suffer from them. I love them. Good morning."

 

There are what, dozens of millions of projects on github? Hundreds? And for all of them, forking is not a problem. In fact, it is something that's encouraged. But for IE mods, it's somehow a danger. That sounds strange.

 

You're right, I sometimes pick up others' work. I generally try to act in good faith as I understand it, but I don't hesitate about picking up something inactive/dead and working on it (for example, PlayItHardcore).

 

In any case, lately I mostly work on modding tools rather than mods. The most known project is probably MLS, but there are others, which are in fact no less useful: translation system, IElib, Golem, Happy IE.

Edited by Magus, 09 May 2021 - 05:26 AM.