125 replies to this topic

[AstroBryGuy]

For a moderator/admin, you're a bit too emotional. Not that moderators/admins should be emotionless, but it kinda feels that you're too emotionally invested in all of this with your use of strong words and all.

Also, I understand that Roxanne violated the site rules. Is it just me but I don't like how this is being handled? It's like he or she is being publicly humiliated. Why not just ban the other accts and warn him/her that another violation would result to his/her acct being banned as well? If the purpose is to educate the public (as if it is a widespread practice), there are many ways to do that. I don't think this is doing the community any good at all. I hope Roxanne will continue modding though.

 

Lurker - if you read CamDawg's post at G3, you'll see that they did try and handle this discreetly. The initial batch of alts was flagged, and Roxanne was contacted. Her response was to create a new batch of alt accounts.

 

I also hope Roxanne continues to mod. One of my mods borrowed an idea from her (with her permission), and she has done a lot of work on BWS/EET that helps users. On the other hand, I understand those who are frustrated with her. If I had spent significant time trying to help one or more of her alt accounts, only to find out it was part of some attempt to make Roxanne look "uber-helpful", I'd be angry about her wasting my time in her charade.

 

The whole situation is unfortunate. But, hopefully, Roxanne will decide to return and contribute to the community.

[temnix]

Gee, just a couple of days and already three pages in the topic. I wish engine features received this much attention... and wrath.

 

[StefanO]

Roxanne should be recognised for her valuable contributions both for EET and BWS. Some of her actions may be questionable, but at the end of the day she did a good job for these projects. I had a couple of discussions with her and found her helpfull.

[temnix]

I want to respond to something Visiting User there said, which is that the Enhanced Editions very much improved the coding of the games and brought in many additional modding options. I agree, and that's the reason I myself always guarantee only compatibility with EE, even though that limits the number of downloads. I simply don't want to severely restrict my creativity by sticking with old technology, not at all superior to the new - unlike with, say, vinyl records or hand-made musical instruments, which might have an important edge over new stuff. In the case of EE vs. the old technology I don't see any real advantages to sticking with old stuff. However, I do recognize and feel, more acutely than many others probably, that the gameplay changes and "improvements" of Beamdog's were in many cases for the worse - as were some decisions about presentation.

 

For example, while no one has enjoyed long loading times in the 1990s, those picturesque loading screens should not have been eliminated completely when the EE technology (or was it even Bioware with Shadows of Amn?) made loading instant. The screens, in my opinion, should have been retained and displayed for a second, and a little waiting time is actually good medicine against the constant-reload disease. The extreme ease of reloading and other breaks from Beamdog, too numerous to list, were probably the reason why an uncommon number of players started to play in Iron Man mode. Self-imposed challenges are a symptom of problems with gameplay and erroneous design decisions. The classic interface was superior too, this is agreed-on. Yet the technology of EE is great.

 

But this does not have to be a divisive issue. Long-time players and modders should not feel irrelevant just because the games' technology has been appropriated by a company that pushes the games in, ultimately, a wrong direction. They should not feel forced out into a retirement - which is probably part of the reason this place looks abandoned sometimes. Likewise, new modders like myself should not feel that they are modding and brainstorming for the sake of a sliver of the audience. The IE games, in their different incarnations, are still quite popular today, but new players can't access much old content because it is incompatible with EE, and old-time modders do not care to update and develop their mods, more important, start something new, if they have to swallow the whole redesign and presentation of Beamdog.

 

And what can be done? What I have already talked about on the Beamdog forums: a reverse engineering of the design and presentation changes of the Enhanced Editions! Take the EE technology and keep it, but roll back all or most of the decisions Beamdog thought wise. No wakizashi proficiency for Safana, no three guiltless-kill Flaming Fist mercenaries on the road with freebie suits of field plate, no Taerom making the ankheg plate in one day (convenience...) and so on. Make Sleep strong again, because "nah" is not good balance. We who played the games in the 1990s don't remember them being too easy or worrying about balance - they were just fine and exciting. This means that Bioware's design decisions were fundamentally right and inspired, and Beamdog's adjustments on the side of caution, ease and rather primitive logic were a mistake by and large. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. If it is broken already, restore it to a proper state and keep the good bits. Of course, some people would still be dissatisfied, decisions would have to be made, but a firm resolve to stick to the original gameplay whenever at all possible would be a guiding light. Think also of restoring, wherever possible, the original interface, making the "classic" selection circles the default, switching off the cartoonish "sprite outlines" and so on. Because all of that matters for the final impression and sensation.

 

I really believe that for modders to perk up and for this place to revive people should stop treating the games either as a sacred cow or as a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. Modders, especially those who are nostalgic, should band together and apply their knowledge and skill to make themselves a cure for their nostalgia - a version of the games that's robust and modern and open to the future, but inspired and true to its spirit. Something to recommend to new players as well - and they might quite like it, possibly better than Beamdog's version. If everyone here feels relevant and busy, then petty squabbles and ego-tussling on these forums would also largely go away, or we could just laugh at them together.

Edited by temnix, 03 May 2018 - 07:48 AM.

[CamDawg]

I got the impression from the msg that the alts were the ones contacted, not Roxanne herself (judging by the name, she's a girl, right?).

 

Roxanne's email was included in the outreach. Roxanne is still welcome here and at G3--had she responded we could have worked this out, quietly and discretely, instead of all this unnecessary drama.

[Cahir]

Yeah, it may be also that the old-time modders moved along with their lives (family, kids, other interests etc.) and doesn't give a damn about new engine and new modding possibilities. It's not all about classic versions vs. EE. People loose interest of a particular game with time, even if this game is as great as BG Saga. This is completely normal and I think that is what affecting SHS, PPG and G3 communities. It's also completely normal that new modders, who started adventure with EE's, would not mod for classic versions. Why would they?

[Almateria]

1) You all lack drive "at times" until someone "capable comes along" then suddenly SHS gets revived again for maybe a few months.

2) You sit around for the longest time year after year after year after year sitting on unfinished mods or sitting on bugs that never seem to get fixed in said mod.

 

Buddy, listen. I lack drive at all times so don't try to single out one moment of my hubris.

That said, I'm busy! I'm old! I started posting when I was in fucking high school, I moved on with my life! I've got family and college matters to attend to! New music to record! New games to play! I can't fucking anchor myself to a game I never enjoyed in a way that wasn't sifting through a database! And I hardly think I'm the only one, considering the BeeGee mod renaissance was a decade ago. People moved on, pal.

 

Also make a fucking account you coward.

[CamDawg]

My vengeance against SHS is now complete, I'd like to thank my good friend Moongaze and you can buy the Improved Anvil Ultra Mega Elite Platinum Player's Edition for $399.99 by calling 1-800-555-5555

As funny as this is, only a few of us old-timers will get it.

[GeN1e]

If being welcome to stay with community is not acceptance, then I don't know what is. Compared to what we've seen in the past, this debacle of a thread is hardly even a drama.

I'd like to thank my good friend Moongaze

Imposter! Sikret was no friend of Moongaze

[temnix]

My last and already hopeless attempt to steer this "discussion" towards something constructive: why don't modders who don't care about these games anymore just leave? What is the point of bickering over... I don't even know what. If you don't care, then stay out. There may be reasons to care other than love for the particular games, like the BG series. I do modding not because I still admire and enjoy the games but because the Infinity Engine is one of the very few adventure creation tools with solid gameplay in place, good music by Mark Morgan, pleasing graphics which can be augmented easily with BAM files, unlike the case of Neverwinter Nights and its Aurora engine, and I don't have to buy into the assumptions of Skyrim, Dark Souls etc. These games are my D&D-in-a-box, my Make Your Fantasy Adventure. But if you don't care for them from this angle any better, there is just no reason to stay or gab.

[aqrit]

If those virtues don't get you anywhere in life in the end, what good are they?

They may prevent your ostracization from a community you love?