164 replies to this topic

[Userunfriendly]

one of the things i really really liked about dragon lance total conversion, and would love to see in this mod, is that when i had a character use a spear, instead of the silly using spear like a quarterstaff animation, he actually poked and thrusted with his spear, like any real spear wielder would do. is this possible without editing the bam??? does spear thrust animation exist in the game already??? if so i would like to see that happen more when i have jaheira attack with a spear.

[CamDawg]

Every weapon has a set percentage that determines how many overhead/backhand/piercing animations to use. Spears are, for the most part, set at 33/33/34. I set Delainy's spears at 10/20/70 to get more thrusting attack animations, for example.

You could do this with a COPY_REG_EXP and a few READ/WRITE BYTEs, but since the bytes will move around based on the number of abilities in the spear, you'll need a loop in there as well.

UU, I'll see what I can do.

[Grim Squeaker]

Yeah this is a good idea. Spears should be more thrusting. Halberds should probably be more swinging. Quarter staffs shouldn't be thrusting coz come on how much damage is someone poking you with a stick gonna do?

[Userunfriendly]

Yeah this is a good idea.  Spears should be more thrusting.  Halberds should probably be more swinging.  Quarter staffs shouldn't be thrusting coz come on how much damage is someone poking you with a stick gonna do?

unless you poke them in the eye...

yay!!! had not noticed that about delainey...since i rarely use here with melee weapons...

so urm...cam, will having jaheira in party with delainey installed, her poke animations will happen much more frequently, then??? that would be so nice...

urm...if i understand correctly, the values are set on the spear, not on the cre files of the character...so each spear will have to be edited...sigh...that's a lot of work..

not to mention stuff from item upgrade, like the throwing spears...sigh...

well, i guess i have to put delainey on the front lines more...

[Littiz]

so each spear will have to be edited...sigh...that's a lot of work..

CamDawg means he'll try to use advanced WeiDU coding to let it do the work for him on the fly

[T.G.Maestro]

so each spear will have to be edited...sigh...that's a lot of work..

Any scripting solution is nice, though the planned "Item revisions" component of v2 should handle this part of the game (I already have an edited version of most spears finished, but I'll add this new effect ).

[CamDawg]

OK, I now have working code for this.

Are you planning on copying over the spears? That's going to incur compatibility problems.

[T.G.Maestro]

Are you planning on copying over the spears? That's going to incur compatibility problems.

Actually, the answer would be yes. What kind of code do you have for that? One that changes spears in-game to do more thrusting animation? Don't forget that we should think/work on halberds/greatswords/staves as well!
And one more thing: will this "new" code be a part of your mod? I say we should make it general (since it is a fair idea), and I'd ask you to let us include it into BG2 Refinements as an optional component (along with all the other changes for items).

A quick question though: is it truly necessary to use a code for all this? There aren't too many spears in the game (ToB included), and it wasn't a bother for me to change them in the preferred way - I say having a simple "copy" effect would be a better option than using a code.

[CamDawg]

I guess it depends what changes you're making to the spears. If you're doing more of a general change to all spears, then code is probably preferred. If you're addressing and changing each spear individually then copying is probably a better method, though it will incur compatibility problems. One big advantage to changing something on the fly (like the animation adjustments) is that the changes will affect all spears in the game, including those added by mods. If you're copying over the spears, executing the animation change code after it will not cause any problems; you could have both methods, in a way.

I wasn't planning on including it in Delainy, though I have been pondering releasing a tweak pack. Refinements is going to be a large, all-encompassing mod that will take some time to complete. As such I've been considering a smaller, less ambitious mod in the meantime for some smaller tweaks that I've been considering. There's no reason why it couldn't be in both mods.

In regards to halberd/staves/etc. now that I have the base code, I can alter a variable and change animations in any weapon type. Something else to change would definitely be less thrusting attacks with blunt weapons.

[T.G.Maestro]

I guess it depends what changes you're making to the spears. If you're doing more of a general change to all spears, then code is probably preferred. If you're addressing and changing each spear individually then copying is probably a better method, though it will incur compatibility problems. One big advantage to changing something on the fly (like the animation adjustments) is that the changes will affect all spears in the game, including those added by mods. If you're copying over the spears, executing the animation change code after it will not cause any problems; you could have both methods, in a way.

Right, I'm convinced.

In regards to halberd/staves/etc. now that I have the base code, I can alter a variable and change animations in any weapon type. Something else to change would definitely be less thrusting attacks with blunt weapons.

Now, this is truly a great thing to do. And I must ask you again: please include this work into Refinements, since it seems clearly a wonderful (and really needed) refinement to my eyes. I would be glad and most honored to have this in for BG2 Refinements v2.

[CamDawg]

OK, I'll take a look at the weapon types, decide on the animation weights, and email the code over to you and Littiz.

This seems to be the default animation sets by weapon type (though some are different). Animations are overhand/backhand/thrusting:

Axes: 50/50/0
Blunt weapons (maces, clubs, flails, morningstars): 50/50/0
Daggers: 0/20/80
Halberds: 0/35/65
Hammers: 65/35/0
Spears: 33/33/34
Staves: 10/70/20 is most common though there are lots of variations
1H Swords: Split between 50/50/0 and 10/25/65
2H Swords: 60/40/0

Out of these, probably the only changes I would recommend is moving spears to 10/20/70, standardizing staves to 10/70/20, short swords to 10/25/65 and other 1H swords to 50/50/0. Comments, suggestions?

[T.G.Maestro]

This discussion about weapon attack animations should be continued in the appropriate thread, I've recently created one.

[Tom]

Yeah this is a good idea. Spears should be more thrusting. Halberds should probably be more swinging. Quarter staffs shouldn't be thrusting coz come on how much damage is someone poking you with a stick gonna do?

sorry, couldnt resist

[T.G.Maestro]

[jester]

Yeah this is a good idea.  Spears should be more thrusting.  Halberds should probably be more swinging.  Quarter staffs shouldn't be thrusting coz come on how much damage is someone poking you with a stick gonna do?

sorry, couldnt resist

It is a sad fact that monks are not allowed two-handed weapons otherwise any well-trained monk would show you how much can be done by poking. The downside of swinging anything is that your opponent can see it coming a long time beforehand. That is why in real fights theses nice 360 degree dropkicks never happen. Think of staves that do something when they touch an opponent. It is not the impact you are after, but the fact that you hit quickly, but I am digressing probably. Animation change is a good thing. Don't mind me ramblin'.

[T.G.Maestro]

It is a sad fact that monks are not allowed two-handed weapons otherwise any well-trained monk would show you how much can be done by poking.

Truth to be told, I always wanted to allow quarterstaves to monks...

[Littiz]

Version 1 won't take long. It's almost ready, mainly missing: icons and testing.
Between version 1 and 2 I'll plan to lazily work on improving/fixing the Sword Angel kit, remove bugs and likely add/modify things everywhere basing on feedback.
But really without time pressures, since my time will decrease exponentially in the following 4/5 months (that's why I want version 1 out as soon as possible).

About the copying/scripting debate, IMHO the course must be decided case by case.
Sure, you can let many changes live together with tricky coding, but what would be the final result, RP-wise?
What's the point in allow different fixes to live together at all costs? Sure, you can add whole effects to a spell through tricky WeiDU coding, instead of copying your files, but the result may be a total mess. Some effects used together crash the game. Others will simply nullify each other. Others then, used together, will simply make the description associated to the "item" completely wrong.
I've just updated Refinements' installer to use the new binary operators BAND and BOR where needed, and this is very good, but some things are still copied, and in case of mage scrolls, one value is simply set for all of them, the way I want it, otherwise things might not work

Anyway, CamDawg, thanx again for your offers, any additions would be quickly included

[Bruce Lee]

Just sitting and thinking a bit about this wonderful game that is bg2 I thought about the short sword of backstabbing added by the rogue rebalancing mod. I think more weapons should be like that. That would also stop the UAI abuse. Say if Carsomy was usable by all good aligned warriors but was a regular +3 twohander in the hands of a fighter and acted only as a holy sword in the hands of a paladin.
It would be nice to have such weapons for the respective fighter kits I think.
Especially nice if the Warblade could be made into a barbarian specific weapon.
I like this weapon, it looks cool and the text is nice but it just isn't used by anyone. Maybe make it so it in the hands of a barbarian is a twohanded sword +4 that does 2d8+4 damage
Gives grandmastery in two-handed sword
when hp´s are halved user goes berserk( and cannot drop weapon) will attack all enemies until everyone is slain or the barbarian himself is killed or healed completely. While in this state he cannot be charmed, held, confused, dominated, slowed, hasted and is immune to fear.
What do you think of that?
I tried to change the Warblade but I couldn't figure out how to make it different for a specific class.

[T.G.Maestro]

I thought about the short sword of backstabbing added by the rogue rebalancing mod. I think more weapons should be like that. That would also stop the UAI abuse.

Take a look at the new HLA tables of thieves - UAI abuse is history.

if Carsomy was usable by all good aligned warriors but was a regular +3 twohander in the hands of a fighter and acted only as a holy sword in the hands of a paladin.

A noteable idea, we should further discuss this for a later version of the mod.

Especially nice if the Warblade could be made into a barbarian specific weapon.
I like this weapon, it looks cool and the text is nice but it just isn't used by anyone.

Originally, when the game wasn't full by fan-made overpowering +4/+5 weapons at every corner. Originally weapons like Warblade were the only choice to harm Kangaxx... those were the times..

What do you think of that?
I tried to change the Warblade but I couldn't figure out how to make it different for a specific class.

As I've said, your ideas have much merit, and we'll try to do something for them in v2 or v3.

[Schatten]

"Originally, when the game wasn't full by fan-made overpowering +4/+5 weapons at every corner. Originally weapons like Warblade were the only choice to harm Kangaxx... those were the times.. "

hey, yo, but there werent those overpowered unkillable insta kill rabbit, too. so its balanced. you can kill anything with one hit and the enemy, too.
j/k


"Say if Carsomy was usable by all good aligned warriors but was a regular +3 twohander in the hands of a fighter and acted only as a holy sword in the hands of a paladin."

is this necessary? nobody would use a weak +3 weapon. you cant hit a gibberling with it.