374 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

Even ignoring the other downsides, most of the time the reduction to 2 attacks while it lasts will result in it actually reducing the damage the archer can do. Compared to Greater Whirlwind Attack or Critical Strike (yes, I know archers no longer get those) it's really weak.

You have a point here Kish, I'll change it somewhat. Simply increasing the duration of this ability won't help, so I'm going to boost it with further effects on a successful attack (bonus damage, % to kill the victim, wing buffet, etc.)
Opinions before the change?

[Trouveur]

I think that skalds should be able to take magical flute, because two of their others HLA are mutually exclusive, and because be able to summon a berserk warrior with the flute seems to fit with the skald's description (a nordist bard of heroic inspiration).

[T.G.Maestro]

I think that skalds should be able to take magical flute, because two of their others HLA are mutually exclusive, and because be able to summon a berserk warrior with the flute seems to fit with the skald's description (a nordist bard of heroic inspiration).

A Magic Flute that grants this ability is in Rogue Rebalancing, and not in Refinements. I can be swayed into giving skalds a SPECIAL Magic Flute HLA which can summon a special Berserk Warrior say, 1/day. But I won't use aVENGER's berserker, since it is a greatly "cheater" creature. I don't believe that every berserker runs around with acidic/ice/electric/vorpal hit +5 axes... A major balancing issue, but it is not my mod.

[Littiz]

Anyway, TGM puts is his versions of the documentations, which is not up-to-date with every change/addition

Magic Flute now plays "power notes", let's say: you can use it to cast Power word Sleep, Silence and Blind.
In this form, it's fine for all bards, I'd say.

[T.G.Maestro]

Anyway, TGM puts is his versions of the documentations, which is not up-to-date with every change/addition

They ARE up to date, at least 90%. It is YOUR version of the documents that is not up to date - I refresh this list every time we change something or add a new ability . This version of the dosuments is much more reliable than the one I send you now-and-then, that one lacks many of the new ones.

Magic Flute now plays "power notes", let's say: you can use it to cast Power word Sleep, Silence and Blind.
In this form, it's fine for all bards, I'd say.

Hmm, Trouveur's ideas are more than considerable - it would fit them much more to summon a warrior spirit instead flashing around with Power Words. I think I'll make these changes this week.

[T.G.Maestro]

Update: Archer Precision became more powerful, it forces the target to save vs. breath at -2 to avoid being knocked back (100%/hit), and to save vs. death to avoid instant death (20%/successful hit).

Plus, here is a new version of Magic Flute for Skalds: it can summon forth a 17th level Spirit Warrior 1/day to fight for the bard for 1 turn, but the flute loses every Power Word effect.

Comments?

[Littiz]

They ARE up to date, at least 90%. It is YOUR version of the documents that is not up to date - I refresh this list every time we change something or add a new ability

You kidding?
My versions MIRROR perfectly the current state of the mod.
You do receive them, though...

This version of the dosuments is much more reliable than the one I send you now-and-then, that one lacks many of the new ones.

Sorry TGM, I wouldn't want to seem childish, but ... what are you talking about?
I don't see what are you trying to prove here.

I have created, ordered and handled every single document, what are these versions you are talking about? You send me nothing now and then.
You mean descriptions of your spells, that come once each?
I correct them before inputting them, when they are proofreaded I correct them again, and when a spell need bugfixing/rebalancing/modifications I correct the docs again, update the installer accordingly and the TRA file.
I do this just about everyday. If you have different versions, they are wrong...simply.
I always repeat that the versions I send must be considered official, you didn't even receive all the proofreaded material.
It seems to me you are *vastly* underestimating the work that docs have required, so far.
Actually I asked you thrice to send me some additions/notes of yours for them, if you had any, but I didn't receive anything...

Hmm, Trouveur's ideas are more than considerable - it would fit them much more to summon a warrior spirit instead flashing around with Power Words. I think I'll make these changes this week.

We talked about this and we decided that bards should get abilities related to sound/charm. I think a flute should play rather than summon.

TGM, no prob on this one, but sometimes it seems like you're trying to deny/minimize my involvement in the project. If you want a mod of your own I have no problem with that, but please state it clearly then. Solving the load of Refinements' problems sometimes it's really tiring, and I am detracting a lot of the time I should dedicate to my duties and to my band.

[Littiz]

ok ok sorry for the tone, the last RL days have been terrible.

[T.G.Maestro]

Now. This one needs a proper response. It would be much better to discuss things like this in PM, I don't think a forum like this is a place to host such... emotions.

You kidding?
My versions MIRROR perfectly the current state of the mod.

Since I correct many files daily, sometimes I post the updates here in this topic faster then I post them to you through mail. That is why it is more up-to-date. And yes, I was talking about the descriptions of the (modified) spells and innates.

Sorry TGM, I wouldn't want to seem childish, but ... what are you talking about?
I don't see what are you trying to prove here

Nothing. See above.

I correct them before inputting them, when they are proofreaded I correct them again, and when a spell need bugfixing/rebalancing/modifications I correct the docs again, update the installer accordingly and the TRA file.

Something that was always HIGHLY appreciated by me. I don't remember behaving differently. Your work is a vital element of the mod, and I never doubt this, and I never did. Without your detailed work and precision, this mod wouldn't become reality. You should know.

We talked about this and we decided that bards should get abilities related to sound/charm. I think a flute should play rather than summon.

Something more fitting to the original topic, so a fair response here: I only thought that Trevour had a valid argument here while stating that Skalds are different in many aspects than most bards. And the new version of this HLA aims to represent this difference. Again, if the community doesn't like it, it'd be dropped. Nothing personal, it was and is only and idea.

TGM, no prob on this one, but sometimes it seems like you're trying to deny/minimize my involvement in the project. If you want a mod of your own I have no problem with that, but please state it clearly then.

Truly, I thought I won't bother to answer this. If I'd like to make my own mod without your aid, ideas, components, suggestions and many more, I just wouldn't accept most of your (otherwise brilliant) ideas from the start. If you take a look at the components, you will clearly notice that some of them are completely your work (SA, SwashImoen), without any interference from my side. Since you seemed to have better ideas in them, I never tried to change them just because I don't like it personally. I always trusted your ideas and plans, and they were treated as such. And I do the same - if I think something is fitting, and I like the idea, I son't see the problem in arguing/bartering for it. We made great things this way, weather you see it or not.

Solving the load of Refinements' problems sometimes it's really tiring, and I am detracting a lot of the time I should dedicate to my duties and to my band.

I guess you know it well enough that I have my own duties as well. I won't start to list them as I did it in the past. Still, if one of us has less time, the other helps him out. If you are out on RL problems, I try to do more on my side. Not because I have more spare time, simply because I want to finish what we started.

ok ok sorry for the tone, the last RL days have been terrible.

For all of us. One of my best friends died in my hands yesterday.

[Littiz]

They are not emotions, just impressions: the way you present things, talk about "your" mod, plan future components without asking me first.
But, *don't* get me bad! One speaks frankly to friends, and it is just a mod (mood?) after all.
I'm having a lot of fun in doing it and working with you.

For all of us. One of my best friends died in my hands yesterday.

This is really terrible, I am very sorry to hear that.
Please, drop me some lines about what happened, if you feel so!

[Galactygon]

For all of us. One of my best friends died in my hands yesterday.

Az szörnyü hír. Azért remélem, hogy nálad minden rendben van.

[T.G.Maestro]

They are not emotions, just impressions: the way you present things, talk about "your" mod, plan future components without asking me first.

You have a point here, my attitude and style keeps to cause me some problems here and there. Basically I'm a most nice person, one that other people love to work/live/etc.. with, but sometimes I tend to have a most .. hmm, how to put this.. well, oppressing behaviour towards others. I have very strong beliefs and rules of my own, and its a most difficult task to sway me from sticking to them.
Actually, I don't really remember if said "MY mod", but if so, please accept my apologies, it wasn't intentional, and I wasn't trying to minimize your part.
About the components presented to the community without your permission: since this is an open forum, and not a protected workroom, I think the future users of Refinements have the right to hear about any ideas, even if they won't make it into the final version. Every time I have an idea or suggestion, I post it here and send it to you via e-mail. Since posting here is MUCH more faster than the mail, it CAN cause some problems, as you put it. I guess you surely noticed that I may have announced planned things without you, but haven't started to work on them without a proper discussion first. Please correct me, if I'm wrong !

One speaks frankly to friends

I thank you these words. Truly.

I'm having a lot of fun in doing it and working with you

Well, I can understand this... with my amazing personality and character, this is most reasonable..

***

Az szörnyü hír. Azért remélem, hogy nálad minden rendben van.

Előbb vagy utóbb minden rendeződik. Ha ennek így kellett lennie, akkor elfogadom, bár az emléket örökké a szívemben hordom majd.
Kösz az együttérzést!

[Littiz]

oppressing

yeah, that fits!
Oh, don't mind, that's the story of my life (that is,being generally nice, but...
ehm, but)

I guess you surely noticed that I may have announced planned things without you, but haven't started to work on them without a proper discussion first. Please correct me, if I'm wrong !

You are wrong
Universal Robes, the new stuff for Balthazar...
ehi, sorry for the outburst anyway.
Wasn't really a nice day for my mood.

[T.G.Maestro]

yeah, that fits!
Oh, don't mind, that's the story of my life (that is,being generally nice, but...
ehm, but)

Nope, I'm TRULY nice! Look:

You are wrong
Universal Robes, the new stuff for Balthazar...

These were already there when we decided to work on Refinements - all I did was throwing them into the "common".

ehi, sorry for the outburst anyway.

No problem of course. I guess there will be similar situations in the future, but we are both adult enough to deal with them in time .
Anywayz, I will try to keep my attitudes under control... (it never worked in the past )

[Galactygon]

Sounds familiar when I had similar modding outbursts months ago. lol

[Daxs]

hmm, I dunno if removing Ranger's dual wield penlty is a good idea. It'd make Montilo's Cloak rather odd. I mean, off hand is never supposed to be more acurrate naturally than main hand.

[T.G.Maestro]

hmm, I dunno if removing Ranger's dual wield penlty is a good idea. It'd make Montilo's Cloak rather odd

I was wondering how long will it take that someone recognizes this "flaw"!
Jokes aside, we are already working on this issue, and have a few alternative solutions. One of them is to change the cloak's bonuses, so they don't mess with Improved Ambidexterity.

[Littiz]

It is the one and only solution we have right now, and I admit I'm not entirely fond of it. Maybe we should add to the cloak something more "rangerish".
Still the HLA is fitting imho, I say better to accept a little change in the cloak than remove it.

[Andyr]

Destruction (Necromancy)
Level: Quest
Sphere: Healing
Range: Touch
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 1 round
Area of Effect: Creature touched
Saving Throw: None

This spell is the reverse of Resurrection. On a successful touch from the priest, the spell strikes at the very life force of the victims body and literally destroys it. The next attack that the priest makes will inflict this effect, however he only has one round to make the attack before the spell fizzles. Also, if the priest misses the target creature, the spell is wasted. There is a saving throw vs. death at -4 to avoid instant destruction, but even if it is successful, the victim takes 3D10 points of damage.

********************
Divine Shell (Abjuration)
Level: Quest
Sphere: Protection
Range: 0
Duration: 1 turn
Casting Time: 7
Area of Effect: Caster
Saving Throw: None

This is perhaps the most powerful protection spell available for Divine spellcasters. It confers 75% Fire, Cold, Lightning resistance and 25% Magic Damage resistance bonus. The caster gains 20% temporary bonus to Maximum Hit Points, 5 points bonus to Save vs. Death, and becomes protected from Normal weapons. Mind affecting spells and anything that hinders free movement will have no effect on the Priest. In addition to these bonuses this spell will protect from every spell directed against the caster. It absorbs 15 level of spells, up to 8th level. The protection last for 1 Turn.

********************
Enlightenment
A high level priest is able to create a much closer and stronger connection to his/her deity. By this, the priest is able to cast more high level spells without resting.
Enlightenment will allow the priest to cast two additional 7th level spells.

********************
Heretic's Bane
Experienced priests can focus their hatred against enemies of their faith in physical means as well. The priest will fight followers of other gods with a religious fury. Against priests and clerics of another ethos he/she will receive +5 bonus to THAC0, and a damage bonus of 10. These bonuses are smaller when facing opponents less dedicated to a religion (multi,- or dual-classed clerics). In this case, the priest will receive +3 to THAC0 and +5 to damage.
This is a passive ability.

********************
Divine Intervention (good version)
Maintaining a strong connection to their gods, high level clerics may call to the heavens in time of great peril. Invoking a devoted prayer, they call directly for the intervention of their deities.
An intervention from the gods themselves may show very different faces however. Unlike Evil aligned clerics, the call of good aligned priests will never result in negative effects, but there is a higher chance that the prayer will be dismissed. The extents of such an intervention are quite diverse, from small bonuses to complete wonders.
This action is very draining to the priest, so a fatigued state shortly follows. Divine Intervention may be used once per day.

Requires: Enlightenment

********************
Divine Intervention (evil version)
Maintaining a strong connection to their gods, high level clerics may call to the heavens in time of great peril. Invoking a devoted prayer, they call directly for the intervention of their deities.
An intervention from the gods themselves may show very different faces however. Unlike Good aligned clerics, the call of evil priests will always ne answered, but there is a chance that the prayer will result in disaster. The extents of such an intervention are quite diverse, from small bonuses to complete wonders.
This powerful prayer requires sacrifice from the priest, so he/she will lose 3D10 Hit Points immediately. Divine Intervention may be used once per day.

Requires: Enlightenment

Ok, some comments.

Is Destruction a bit like Finger of Death?

Divine Shell, I like this a lot, I think we were making it for the Cleric Remix mod.

I'm not sure about Enlightenment - You get loads of Level 7 spells, especially with your Holy Symbol equipped.

Heretic's Bane is a good idea but I'm not sure how unbalancing it will be as a passive ability. That's some hefty bonuses...

Divine Intervention is also interesting - is this a bit like the Wish spells?

[CamDawg]

Divine Shell is made, yes.